glitter, flakes, magnetic material in oil after some high RPM driving

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

The S65 has a bed plate so there is no way to inspect the mains without a total tear-down of the engine. This can be done engine in... This should be done engine out. Either way, it is a major effort and at that point, you might as well just rebuild the pig properly.

Cheers,

Damn. I was afraid that that was the case.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

Did you save an oil sample for testing?

100% agree with pulling the pan to check the state of the bearings. You need to know.

Also, you should see if you can pull the cap on the #1 main and see what the lower shell and the journal look like. (Note that you won't be able to get the upper shell out, but you should still see if there is a problem.)

I did save oil for testing. Like many others that had clean reports before engine failure, i just had my oil tested and it came back fine. One benefit from the tear down is i should be able to find and clean out any shavings still in the pan from the dipstick mod that was done 25k ago along with BE bearings, which is my theory on what caused this. I still find pieces of aluminum in my filter to this day. Shop told me that as long as the filter catches it and the oil analysis comes back clean, there is nothing to worry about, except they never accounted for possibility of oil bypassing the filter any foreign material in the oil at the time going through the bearings.

[jayzbird]

This comes from Porsche world, but I thought I’d share this informative video about UOA and why low metals can actually be a bad sign. The sample principles apply here.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by jayzbird

This comes from Porsche world, but I thought I’d share this informative video about UOA and why low metals can actually be a bad sign. The sample principles apply here.

Good stuff. Thanks!

[bmwm3s65]

If i do end up inspecting the rod bearings and find damage, can i at least reuse the BE arp 2000 bolts? From what i have read, they are reusable and most likely it wouldn't be an issue reinstalling them without having to worry about measuring the stretch already applied to the bolt.

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

If i do end up inspecting the rod bearings and find damage, can i at least reuse the BE arp 2000 bolts? From what i have read, they are reusable and most likely it wouldn't be an issue reinstalling them without having to worry about measuring the stretch already applied to the bolt.

Yes, the ARP bolts are reusable.

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I did save oil for testing. Like many others that had clean reports before engine failure, i just had my oil tested and it came back fine. One benefit from the tear down is i should be able to find and clean out any shavings still in the pan from the dipstick mod that was done 25k ago along with BE bearings, which is my theory on what caused this. I still find pieces of aluminum in my filter to this day. Shop told me that as long as the filter catches it and the oil analysis comes back clean, there is nothing to worry about, except they never accounted for possibility of oil bypassing the filter any foreign material in the oil at the time going through the bearings.

If you're at a point where you have sparkles in your oil, the oil analysis will tell you what metal you have in there.

[bmwm3s65]

Just a quick update. I changed the oil and started the car and there is a slight knock. I immediately pulled it back in the garage and turned it off. I'm going to have it towed to a shop to look at it. I will reply back with the findings. this really, really, really sucks. i guess on the bright side, the knock is slight and the engine still runs at the moment.

[acarr6]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

Just a quick update. I changed the oil and started the car and there is a slight knock. I immediately pulled it back in the garage and turned it off. I'm going to have it towed to a shop to look at it. I will reply back with the findings. this really, really, really sucks. i guess on the bright side, the knock is slight and the engine still runs at the moment.

Will be interested to see what happened here. Thanks for the update and best of luck at the shop.

[bmwm3s65]

yea, me too. Thanks.

[bmwm3s65]

If i find that the crank has been scored from a rod bearing failure or one of the mains has failed and since the oil pathways are contaminated by bearing debris, my main concern is reliability of the engine after these repairs and the cost. Would it be cheaper and more reliable to source a rebuilt engine?

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

If i find that the crank has been scored from a rod bearing failure or one of the mains has failed and since the oil pathways are contaminated by bearing debris, my main concern is reliability of the engine after these repairs and the cost. Would it be cheaper and more reliable to source a rebuilt engine?

It's sourcing a used engine vs. rebuilding your existing engine.

Short answer: Unless you have some real knowledge about who is building the engine, just get a used engine.

Edit: Note that the bill for either of these is large enough that you should also consider selling the car as-is to someone who will DIY the work and getting another M3.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

It's sourcing a used engine vs. rebuilding your existing engine.

Short answer: Unless you have some real knowledge about who is building the engine, just get a used engine.

Edit: Note that the bill for either of these is large enough that you should also consider selling the car as-is to someone who will DIY the work and getting another M3.

I agree. My dilemma is deciding on whether or not to take it to a shop to look at it. I have been unable to find a shop in the state of Indiana that has intimate knowledge on the s65. I feel if it is an engine tear down, more than just rod bearings, i don't trust a shop where i live to do it. At this point, i feel comfortable enough to at least inspect the rod bearings and crank. if i tear it down and see the crank is scored, then i think it would be better to source and replace the engine, which i feel comfortable doing my self.

[Scharbag]

So sorry to hear this.

Please keep us posted as to what you find. And I agree, the S65 rebuild is not something to trust to just any shop. There is an S65 engine for sale from Saskatoon Canada right now for $5500 CAD. The guy is slow to respond but check the Canada regional forums.

Cheers,

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

So sorry to hear this.

Please keep us posted as to what you find. And I agree, the S65 rebuild is not something to trust to just any shop. There is an S65 engine for sale from Saskatoon Canada right now for $5500 CAD. The guy is slow to respond but check the Canada regional forums.

Cheers,

Thanks. i checked it out. good price if it is in good shape.

[SAMM3Y]

Consider buying a whole wrecked car so that you can confirm the engine runs well before removing it... part out/scrap the rest to make up costs.. Not as convenient at all but the thought of buying an eBay motor is scary.... I've seen low mileage wrecked e93's sell for sub $7k... sounds like you can turn a wrench... get errr done for Dale..

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Consider buying a whole wrecked car so that you can confirm the engine runs well before removing it... part out/scrap the rest to make up costs.. Not as convenient at all but the thought of buying an eBay motor is scary.... I've seen low mileage wrecked e93's sell for sub $7k... sounds like you can turn a wrench... get errr done for Dale..

Good idea, although i don't think my wife will go for it. I cant even have a DD in the driveway, let alone a wrecked car. I am already having a hard time convincing her that for the cost of an indie shop to rebuild the engine and then worry about reliability is about the same or cheaper for me to source a known good engine and install it myself.

[CarbonBlack88]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I agree. My dilemma is deciding on whether or not to take it to a shop to look at it. I have been unable to find a shop in the state of Indiana that has intimate knowledge on the s65. I feel if it is an engine tear down, more than just rod bearings, i don't trust a shop where i live to do it. At this point, i feel comfortable enough to at least inspect the rod bearings and crank. if i tear it down and see the crank is scored, then i think it would be better to source and replace the engine, which i feel comfortable doing my self.

Euro Motorworks in Indianapolis did my PPI and I was impressed by how well they examined the car. I think the master mechanic's name was Josh and I seem to remember that he knew the S65 particularly well.

Best of luck dude. Really tough situation but hoping it somehow has a happy ending

[akkando]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

Good idea, although i don't think my wife will go for it. I cant even have a DD in the driveway, let alone a wrecked car. I am already having a hard time convincing her that for the cost of an indie shop to rebuild the engine and then worry about reliability is about the same or cheaper for me to source a known good engine and install it myself.

How about a stroker from Carbahn

https://carbahnautoworks.com/product...product-page=1

Not as cheap as some other options... but probably more interesting!

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by CarbonBlack88

Euro Motorworks in Indianapolis did my PPI and I was impressed by how well they examined the car. I think the master mechanic's name was Josh and I seem to remember that he knew the S65 particularly well.

Best of luck dude. Really tough situation but hoping it somehow has a happy ending

Cool, i'll check it out. Thanks!

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by akkando

How about a stroker from Carbahn

https://carbahnautoworks.com/product...product-page=1

Not as cheap as some other options... but probably more interesting!

Funny you mention carbahn. I was looking at their stroker options last night. I didnt know they made a 4.1l kit. That was always my dream build with this car, to have a 4.6l stroker w/lowered compression, supercharger, 292 cams, long tube headers, full e85 tune. Oh how i wish.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by CarbonBlack88

Euro Motorworks in Indianapolis did my PPI and I was impressed by how well they examined the car. I think the master mechanic's name was Josh and I seem to remember that he knew the S65 particularly well.

Best of luck dude. Really tough situation but hoping it somehow has a happy ending

I called Euro. I got the same response from them that i got from everywhere else, if its more than just the rod bearings, i.e crank damage and beyond, i am looking at a rebuild or a replacement and no shops around me have done a rebuild on an s65 that i am aware of, just rod bearings. I even considered the dealership, but they are really expensive and they don't rebuild engines just replace and from what i've heard an engine replacement through the dealership is 20k-30k. I just got the last of the tools i needed for this job, the 6in t30 and 12point 12mm for the rod cap arp bolts, so i am back to inspecting it myself, if by some miracle its just rod bearing damage due to failure or incorrect installation and no crank damage(unlikely), I will inspect the journals, cylinder walls, mains(at least what i can see), as best i can, replace the bearings and flush the oil. If not, i'll have to source and engine and pray i chose wisely. I have one chance to fix it right. if this happens again, my wife is going to make me sell it and get a more practical family car. I absolutely do not want that. This sucks.