Anyone with a 2012-2013 wish they waited for the M4?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by nonagon

I had the same fear before receiving mine - it's an awesome sounding car. Clearly the s65 has a better induction sound, but it's just a different kind of experience. You get more exhaust sound in the new cars and less of the engine itself. Everyone I've taken for rides said the sound is incredible. Also for some reason videos don't F80/82 justice. The coolest sound it makes are the rev match downshifts.

Its a know thing that the F80 sounds better inside than out. I am sure if you got some friends together and experienced the active sound they would think its cool.

Now take your F80 to a car meet where there are all different types of cars. have your friends listen to a 911 and a Z06 corvette. Then see if they think the F80 still sounds "awesome"

[nonagon]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Its a know thing that the F80 sounds better inside than out. I am sure if you got some friends together and experienced the active sound they wont think its cool.

Now take your F80 to a car meet where there are all different types of cars. have your friends listen to a 911 or a Z06 corvette. Then see if they think the F80 still sounds "awesome"

911 or Vette will sound better. But F80 sounds good.

[Three Pedal Steve]

Maybe the lovers of the e92 M3 cars are now such a small demographic, such a small market share, BMW has it's sights on a broader market. The M4 is certainly a crazy car with a distinctive sound (thru the stereo?) and I see a lot of them in the wild. Far more than the rare M3 sightings. And oddly, they are mostly convertibles perhaps a sign of the new demographic BMW envisions.

[BRBM]

Originally Posted by Limey

I read all these pro F8X posts and I get it. I'm sold on it being a better car. And it SHOULD be better or it's a complete failure and BMW can't risk that with an M. Or did they and am I wrong? Subjective of course.

But, like I said before, The F8X IS "better" than the E90. But it just ISN'T as "good" as the E90!

And again, the deal breaker: The exhaust sound through the speakers If I owned an F8X, every time I heard that sound through the speakers I'd feel like I was being lied to by a good friend. Not cool.

RIP M

Originally Posted by RG m3

Very well said. The f8x is the better car objectively, but it doesn't measure up to the e9x on the subjective side, not for me anyway. Subjective things are what make us attracted to the car and create the desire to own it.

For me, BMW failed in the most important area: the engine. The s55 has all the character and charisma of a cement block. That's totally unacceptable for me in a M car, no matter how well it performs.

M is still alive in the chassis department, but M engines are dead.

RIP M engines.

Speaking as an outsider who chose the C63 while also considering an E90, E93 and Lexus IS-FM, can’t help but concur with these – again, well said – comments. The idea was to snap up the least commonly seen, then grab the best one later…………………the M3 (or 4). That’s why I’m here; to stay on top of good, the bad, and ugly ‘fore deciding.

Long story short, before blabbing on, the E90/2/3 generation appears to still be the choice. Granted, N/A V-8s are my preference, the overall package of the F8X – I don’t think – is TRULY a better one. I'm with RG. As I read car magazine comparos I tend to look at side-by-side performance and spec numbers, but focus more on my rating of the subjective measures. Also try to read each write-up from the perspective of: Can I accept this car as my daily driver…..good, bad, and ugly all considered.

That said, seems pretty clear with the current 3-series…….BMW’s going after more of the mass market consumer. Seems to be leaning towards being more of a luxury car (more Mercedes?) and not paying a much attention traditional BMW driving dynamics. Longer wheelbase. Sure, still 50-50 front/rear balance, but with less chassis tuning leading to ‘less’ of an ultimate driving machine? Overly insane power levels that makes it snap-oversteer in un-M3 ways / less controllable / more AMG-like??

Since when does M, who pays attention to curb weight (requiring less power) follow AMG’s supposed philosophy – that curb weight is largely an engine builder’s problem. Don’t ask me.

I mean, nothing wrong more with being more ‘posh’, but don’t forget where you come from! Ironically, think Infiniti Q50, formerly G35/37……the 3s closest last-gen competitor. No sooner than I think Infiniti will finally catch up with the Q, they divert to luxury and dilute the 370Z-like handling. (That's all the Qs are, dressed up 370Z 2+2s....one with a sedan shell, one coupe.)

I don’t get it, but my money does. Find the lowest mileage CPO, 2012 or ‘13 E9X and buy it. Don’t care which one. Just gimme that total package + the scaled down 4.0 V8 (from the M5 V10) with the crazy howl. Yes, I’ve heard it and was a neck breaker. WTF was that???!! Love it just as much as the AMG V8's sound.

In the final analysis? Can live with the less special TT V6, the unconscionable exhaust sound piped in thru speakers (can you turn that sh—off?), and can even accept the F8X being an overall better car…………allegedly.

But, still not as good as the previous version, as said earlier by Limey.

I mean, need I make reference to the latest 2015 C&D Lightning Lap results @ VIR? M4 beaten by C63S and ATS-V? Whoa.

Well, I hope M is not really dead.

[JRV]

Whenever one accelerates by me hard it either farts or sounds like a tired cow. Otherwise I think they look badass with dark wheels.

[Limey]

Originally Posted by JRV

Whenever one accelerates by me hard it either farts or sounds like a tired cow. Otherwise I think they look badass with dark wheels.

That's because it really sounds like a tired cow's fart

[SakhirM4]

This thread is truly amazing!! And the F8X is a TT I6, not TT V6

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

This thread is truly amazing!! And the F8X is a TT I6, not TT V6

yes you are right.

Although i do wish it sounded like a TT v6 in the GTR.

[Bimmerchop]

Originally Posted by Ezio

yes you are right.

Although i do wish it sounded like a TT v6 in the GTR.

Or the TT V6 in my previous S4. VR6's also sound great.

[krzykk]

OK, here is my part.
Last night participated in BMW event where I was given choice of driving few BMW models. Picked M4 - M5 - M4 back to back. 1,5 hours of total seat time, driving alone on rural back roads and interstate. Impressions? These are fast cars. No question in being "next step" in M development. Couldn't pinpoint what exactly was missing, definitely something wasn't right. Sure, these cars carry M badges. I just couldn't connect with them on level I connected with E92 or E46 M's. Back in 2008, during similar event (M Power Tour) I was test driving E92 and fell instantly in love with it. I can not say the same about last night. No doubt in my mind, I will add M4 to my garage one day in future, just not any time soon.
BTW, "check" on cow farts between shifts. Liked it!

[krzykk]

One more thing, I felt happy driving back E92 home from the event. This car just seems "right" on many different levels. Sure, it's not the fastest or the "torqueiest" (is that a word?)one. It just makes me happy, every moment I am in driver's seat. Actually, to be honest I find myself turning around and starring at her after parking car at work. Hope to find that connection with M4 in future.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ezio

yes you are right.

Although i do wish it sounded like a TT v6 in the GTR.

I was in a 900 whp GTR a few weeks ago, full catless, etc. Still sounds like crap. Don't know if it's better than the F80, but it still sounds like a vacuum cleaner. The 911T also sounds like crap... i've never heard a turbo car that sounds good

Anyway, while I am immensely disappointed in BMW M moving to non specific engines with turbos on them, I am sure the M4/3 will continue to be the best to drive vs it's modern competition.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I was in a 900 whp GTR a few weeks ago, full catless, etc. Still sounds like crap. Don't know if it's better than the F80, but it still sounds like a vacuum cleaner. The 911T also sounds like crap... i've never heard a turbo car that sounds good

Anyway, while I am immensely disappointed in BMW M moving to non specific engines with turbos on them, I am sure the M4/3 will continue to be the best to drive vs it's modern competition.

I have heard a few GTRs that produce a decent sound to my ears. I do agree turbo engines in general sound like crap. They really do. Even with full catless less.

even the turbo AMG cars. Sound sloppy, uneven, and muffled.

[skyw4lker808]

I'm probably just piling on here...but not even remotely. I bought my '12 e92 in May, and I couldn't be happier. I call it the best purchase I have ever made. I agree that the m4 looks deadly, but the e92 is gorgeous. Most importantly, I wouldn't trade the s65 for anything. I had a n54 335 for 3 years, I've had enough of turbo charged. The N/A V8 that the e92 has is glorious, and like somebody had said on Page 11 I think it will one day be highly sought after in ways that the f82 won't. Also, Induction noise, good God it's amazing in the e92..not this sound that is pumped through the speakers with the f82.

Most importantly, Jeremy Clarkson said it well: "turbo charging is for the weak."

PS. If anybody has an e90 or e92 and wishes they had an f80 or 82, they don't deserve their e9x

[617E90M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I was in a 900 whp GTR a few weeks ago, full catless, etc. Still sounds like crap. Don't know if it's better than the F80, but it still sounds like a vacuum cleaner. The 911T also sounds like crap... i've never heard a turbo car that sounds good

Anyway, while I am immensely disappointed in BMW M moving to non specific engines with turbos on them, I am sure the M4/3 will continue to be the best to drive vs it's modern competition.

You have never heard a single turbo supra? Come on dude.

[Bimmerchop]

I thought my TTS4 sounded pretty damn nice lol

[Three Pedal Steve]

The M4 has a higher hood line than the e92 M3. It is pretty obvious when the two cars are parked next to each other.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by krzykk

OK, here is my part.
Last night participated in BMW event where I was given choice of driving few BMW models. Picked M4 - M5 - M4 back to back. 1,5 hours of total seat time, driving alone on rural back roads and interstate. Impressions? These are fast cars. No question in being "next step" in M development. Couldn't pinpoint what exactly was missing, definitely something wasn't right. Sure, these cars carry M badges. I just couldn't connect with them on level I connected with E92 or E46 M's. Back in 2008, during similar event (M Power Tour) I was test driving E92 and fell instantly in love with it. I can not say the same about last night. No doubt in my mind, I will add M4 to my garage one day in future, just not any time soon.
BTW, "check" on cow farts between shifts. Liked it!

This is exactly how I feel... The second I sat and drove a e92, I was sold... Three years or just shy of that, every damn time I got into the drivers seat and pushed the start button, i'm pretty sure i smiled like a kid in a candy store, or charlie sheen (pre announcement) walking into a brothel... F80 just doesn't have the same feeling for me - I get it, it's infinitely quicker, there is no doubt, and it's not even close to F3x vs F8x this time around, but there's just something missing... Can't put my finger on it, and the last time I said it out loud I got bashed and called a troll, lol... She just doesn't have the same magical feeling my e92 did... Maybe with time, who knows... She has redeeming qualities though, the "cow farts" as someone said (wastegate dump) is addicting (and you thought the rev match / throttle blipping was addicting) and she has torque, torque for days, but just not as special as I was used to with the e92... I still haven't hit 1200 miles though so there's that too...

[8600RPM]

Originally Posted by shoei

This is exactly how I feel... The second I sat and drove a e92, I was sold... Three years or just shy of that, every damn time I got into the drivers seat and pushed the start button, i'm pretty sure i smiled like a kid in a candy store, or charlie sheen (pre announcement) walking into a brothel... F80 just doesn't have the same feeling for me - I get it, it's infinitely quicker, there is no doubt, and it's not even close to F3x vs F8x this time around, but there's just something missing... Can't put my finger on it, and the last time I said it out loud I got bashed and called a troll, lol... She just doesn't have the same magical feeling my e92 did... Maybe with time, who knows... She has redeeming qualities though, the "cow farts" as someone said (wastegate dump) is addicting (and you thought the rev match / throttle blipping was addicting) and she has torque, torque for days, but just not as special as I was used to with the e92... I still haven't hit 1200 miles though so there's that too...

As I posted earlier, I unfortunately had the same experience and 6 months in my new f80 with MPE which frankly sounds quite great, still never gave me the excitement I felt daily in my e92 even after 100k miles. My answer--sold f80 and I'm back in a 2013 DCT zcp m3. Much much happier and zero regrets. Throttle response , intake noise and catless exhaust. Plus power delivery. Enjoy every minute agsin which is priceless

[AWM3ME2]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

As I posted earlier, I unfortunately had the same experience and 6 months in my new f80 with MPE which frankly sounds quite great, still never gave me the excitement I felt daily in my e92 even after 100k miles. My answer--sold f80 and I'm back in a 2013 DCT zcp m3. Much much happier and zero regrets. Throttle response , intake noise and catless exhaust. Plus power delivery. Enjoy every minute agsin which is priceless

I just did the same thing!! Lol

Sold my M4 w/ CCB, DP etc etc and picked up a '13 ZCP 6SP.

[8600RPM]

It's interesting as it's the first time in my life where I truly understood newer isn't necessarily better. Now if the f80 had a NA engine revving to 8500 it would be my dream car. I loved the look and chasdis, seats etc but to me the engine is the heart of a car an frankly even a turbo ferrari doesn't excite me. I'll be slowly adding used NA cars to my garage and likely won't last after a car until hybrid electric-turbo engines make their way into common sports cars that truly eliminate lag and have linear top end power. Sound will be a challenge but I could get over it if the other characteristics were there

[E90beemerfan]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

It's interesting as it's the first time in my life where I truly understood newer isn't necessarily better. Now if the f80 had a NA engine revving to 8500 it would be my dream car. I loved the look and chasdis, seats etc but to me the engine is the heart of a car an frankly even a turbo ferrari doesn't excite me. I'll be slowly adding used NA cars to my garage and likely won't last after a car until hybrid electric-turbo engines make their way into common sports cars that truly eliminate lag and have linear top end power. Sound will be a challenge but I could get over it if the other characteristics were there

Interesting reading your views on this. I've tested the F80 and F82 and came to the same conclusion. It is really a fantastic car in many ways, but lacking the excitement from the engine. The S65 is screaming all the way to 8400 rpm and have to be worked hard to give maximum power. The S55 on the other hand is bringing the car to warp speed in no time without a sweat and maximum power is available early on in the rev range. I prefer the characteristics of the S65, immediate response, linear torque- and power delivery and that glorious sound.

Unfortunately, we are in the minority here and most of the customers for this type of car don't care as much as I do for the above mentioned characteristics.

Mercedes made a better engine selection than BMW for their C63 and used a TTV8. The C63s could have been an option for me if the car had been lighter and with a design that excited me more.

If the Porsche 911 Carrera 2S had more space, I would consider this as my DD. Unfortunately the 911 is too small to cover my needs in my daily routines. It could work as a weekend car, but during weekends I often go somewhere with my family. The E92 is just perfect in this respect. You can easily combine a family trip with a visit to a race track and enjoy the fantastic chassis and engine every day.

Maybe the new Alpha Romeo Giulia will be the car bringing the magic missing in the F8X lineup...