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      03-18-2019, 01:25 PM   #1
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@103K miles and need to decide whether or not to do a DCT service to fix leak vs repl

My Indy is telling me I have the typical side/upper DCT slow leak.. I topped off three weeks ago (was two qts low on fluid somehow) until I could make a plan on the long-term fix. It drove silky smooth after the top off. Three weeks later I am now starting to get some of the jerkiness back, so I assume it's time to start scheduling the DCT service.

Wanted to know what you all thought I should know before taking it back in Wednesday for a full quote/diagnosis. Assuming it's the upper gasket and the transmission will have to come out to service (believe that's a pretty intense job) should I consider looking for a used DCT with fewer miles and comparing cost/benefit? I hope to keep this car for the long haul and would hate to spend over a grand on servicing it when I might have long-term issues come back up... are used DCTs pretty cheap? I saw a low mileage one on here days ago for $1500...
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      03-18-2019, 04:58 PM   #2
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Swapping transmissions will cost the same in labor. If yours is fine otherwise, I'd just stick with it. Instead of buying another box, buy pans/gaskets/fluid/filters and button it up properly. Should be stout after that.
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      03-18-2019, 05:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatth View Post
Swapping transmissions will cost the same in labor. If yours is fine otherwise, I'd just stick with it. Instead of buying another box, buy pans/gaskets/fluid/filters and button it up properly. Should be stout after that.
thanks! just wanted to make sure before pulling the trigger on the repairs. Since I was driving around for a few months unknowingly low on fluid just worried I might have damage especially given the mileage... so didn't want to fix it and then be stuck with a replacement down the road. Any ideas on what cost I should 'hope' for in the quote?
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      03-18-2019, 11:59 PM   #4
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Dct side pan can be done without removing it FYI. You need small hands and the right combination of tools.
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      03-19-2019, 04:38 AM   #5
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If you replace pans, I highly recommend the Slon workshop bottom and side pans. Solved my problems with just the bottom pan.
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      03-19-2019, 09:17 AM   #6
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Mine's been slowly leaking for the past 5 years and I remember the service rep telling me it will blow up. The leak was so negligible, I've never received any warning or low fluid level and I've tracked my car and put a total of 212,000 kms on it, and its still running healthy.

I did rod bearing for a peace of mind at 170k kms, but other than that my mentality if don't fix it till it broke. And drive it hard.
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      03-19-2019, 09:32 AM   #7
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The DCT is pretty much indestructible. Replace the seals, maybe upgrade to the Slonik stuff if you want to keep the car for a long time and call it a day

The slonik goodies are awesome
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      03-19-2019, 05:12 PM   #8
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thank you all for the input, as always, this place is full of a lot of knowledge. One last question... anything I should consider or look out for as far as the cost of the DCT pan with the parts mentioned here? any estimates would be appreciated. I have a very solid and honest new Indy, but want to make sure they diagnose and price this correctly.
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      03-19-2019, 05:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amrazM View Post
Dct side pan can be done without removing it FYI. You need small hands and the right combination of tools.
Do you know what specific tools will do the trick? I have a very minor leak from my side pan - already bought a new gasket.. I've heard this can be done without dropping the whole unit but haven't found what specific tools are needed to do so. Thanks!
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      03-19-2019, 05:35 PM   #10
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I've seen $1500 in labor if including the side gaskets, which requires at least tilting the transmission down. The bottom pan alone might be $250 in labor.
Fluids and filters, I think $250 on ECS. If you want SSP viton seals/gaskets, those are $400 (side and bottom). I think the Slon pans, if you wish to go this route over gaskets, are $900 for bottom and $600 for the side.

So the low end would be $1200 or so (if you can find a cheap shop that can do the side without much more labor, and go with SSP gaskets) and the top end would be just over $3K with the billet pans and full labor. Note that the premier local shop to me cautioned against the small-hand approach to the side gasket because you aren't sure that you are seating the gasket perfectly all around.
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      03-19-2019, 06:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatth View Post
I've seen $1500 in labor if including the side gaskets, which requires at least tilting the transmission down. The bottom pan alone might be $250 in labor.
Fluids and filters, I think $250 on ECS. If you want SSP viton seals/gaskets, those are $400 (side and bottom). I think the Slon pans, if you wish to go this route over gaskets, are $900 for bottom and $600 for the side.

So the low end would be $1200 or so (if you can find a cheap shop that can do the side without much more labor, and go with SSP gaskets) and the top end would be just over $3K with the billet pans and full labor. Note that the premier local shop to me cautioned against the small-hand approach to the side gasket because you aren't sure that you are seating the gasket perfectly all around.
Wow, phenomenal information here. Thank you! Unfortunate that this is so expensive... I have recently done Rod Bearings ($2,600), Oil Filter Housing Gasket & New Coolant lines and flush ($1,000), Spark Plugs ($550), Underbelly pan ($500), tail lights & headlights ($180), tires, etc.. and still need to do valve covers. I knew what I was getting into but this transmission issue flat out sucks.. Hopefully I can wait a few weeks or months and get by with a top-off this week on DCT fluid and give me time to decide on what path to take for the pans..
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      03-19-2019, 06:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Wow, phenomenal information here. Thank you! Unfortunate that this is so expensive... I have recently done Rod Bearings ($2,600), Oil Filter Housing Gasket & New Coolant lines and flush ($1,000), Spark Plugs ($550), Underbelly pan ($500), tail lights & headlights ($180), tires, etc.. and still need to do valve covers. I knew what I was getting into but this transmission issue flat out sucks.. Hopefully I can wait a few weeks or months and get by with a top-off this week on DCT fluid and give me time to decide on what path to take for the pans..
If you need to do the spark plugs again, look into DIY.. I think it was around $85 and an hour or so. Wasn't too difficult at all.
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      03-19-2019, 06:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettcp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Wow, phenomenal information here. Thank you! Unfortunate that this is so expensive... I have recently done Rod Bearings ($2,600), Oil Filter Housing Gasket & New Coolant lines and flush ($1,000), Spark Plugs ($550), Underbelly pan ($500), tail lights & headlights ($180), tires, etc.. and still need to do valve covers. I knew what I was getting into but this transmission issue flat out sucks.. Hopefully I can wait a few weeks or months and get by with a top-off this week on DCT fluid and give me time to decide on what path to take for the pans..
If you need to do the spark plugs again, look into DIY.. I think it was around $85 and an hour or so. Wasn't too difficult at all.
Definitely... hopefully by then I can be more up to speed on some DIY skills by reading more on here. Being able to do some of these medium/easy level fixes would save a fortune..
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      03-20-2019, 04:52 PM   #14
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just picked up the car from my Indy and spoke with the master mechanic... Fluids were maybe a half a quart off, which wasn't enough to be causing these issues. He ran codes and said there were two codes throwing for clutch "gap" errors in lower gears... I am definitely not using the right words but hopefully someone here knows what that means.

He thinks there's something internally wrong, potentially related to it being so low on the fluid last month and we didn't know how long it had been low. The car is drivable, cant tell at all in higher gears. Lower gears it definitely has it's moments of jerking slightly, especially when first starting and trying to reverse when on a slope.. or when in stop and go traffic it just doesn't feel smooth.

Am I doomed into having to get a used DCT? i guess if the top off doesn't fix it, then it means that it's not the low fluid causing then issues so replacing the pans is a waste...

Or maybe this is all in my head? the codes are concerning.. but sometimes I can't tell anything is wrong and it's flawless... it's just every now and then (warm or cold) the lower gears are doing some weird things.
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      03-20-2019, 06:12 PM   #15
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I really can't see that a low fluid would cause damage before you would get codes thrown by the DCT
But of course I could be wrong.
The DCT is pretty sturdy and I would go and teach-in the clutch and the other tests that are testing the clutch. With ista-d it is three procedures if I remember right.
Just google BMW DCT reset cand see what I am talking about.
I really can't see that the box is damaged from somewhat lower fluid without screaming "error"

If you buy a used box you never know how this box was doing? Or if the owner had a slow leak and drive around like you.

The box does leak a little, that's undoubtedly a fact for a lot of boxes.

I would give the relearn a try before spending real money.
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      03-20-2019, 06:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
just picked up the car from my Indy and spoke with the master mechanic... Fluids were maybe a half a quart off, which wasn't enough to be causing these issues. He ran codes and said there were two codes throwing for clutch "gap" errors in lower gears... I am definitely not using the right words but hopefully someone here knows what that means.

He thinks there's something internally wrong, potentially related to it being so low on the fluid last month and we didn't know how long it had been low. The car is drivable, cant tell at all in higher gears. Lower gears it definitely has it's moments of jerking slightly, especially when first starting and trying to reverse when on a slope.. or when in stop and go traffic it just doesn't feel smooth.

Am I doomed into having to get a used DCT? i guess if the top off doesn't fix it, then it means that it's not the low fluid causing then issues so replacing the pans is a waste...

Or maybe this is all in my head? the codes are concerning.. but sometimes I can't tell anything is wrong and it's flawless... it's just every now and then (warm or cold) the lower gears are doing some weird things.
I really can't see that a low fluid would cause damage before you would get codes thrown
But of course I could be wrong.
The DCT is pretty sturdy and I would go and teach-in the clutch and the other tests that are testing the clutch. With ista-d it is three procedures if I remember right.
Just google BMW DCT reader and see what I am talking about.
I really can't see that the box is damaged from somewhat lower fluid without screaming "error"

If you buy a used box you never know how this box was doing? Or if the owner had a slow leak and drive around like you.

The box does leak a little, that's undoubtedly a fact for a lot of boxes.

I would give the relearn a try before spending real money.
so mine was 4 qts low on fluid when I took it to a second Indy shop.. Unsure when it got that low, but I had it probably 6K miles prior to finding my current Indy that actually checked. No telling how long prior to my ownership that this was happening. Is this type of low fluid supposed to throw error codes in the dash or is this still not critically low to throw dash errors, or would this only show up with a code reader?
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      03-20-2019, 07:38 PM   #17
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I have no idea when low is actually too low.
But if there is less/ not enough fluid in the box that will lead to overheating at some point . The other possibility should be that the pump sucks air and therefore pressure loss.
Both cases should lead to a code being thrown and perhaps limp mode.
I can not see that the box get a damage before one of those things happens.
We know from drivers that track the car that occasionally overheating message didn't destroy the box.

If the Indy knows how much was missing then I assume he has the BMW software To do a filling as outlined by BMW. In this case he should be able to to the DCT "reset".

I honestly would be more concerned that someone puts in a "automatic" gear oil, assuming that the DCT is an automatic gearbox which it is not.
The DCT needs a certain fluid and BMW in the early days replaced the gearbox and cooler and all lines should someone put the wrong fluid in.

As far as I can tell, no one knows how it looks when the wrong fluid is used to top up or even a complete flush with the wrong oil.

Did someone in your area that has the BMW software and can do a relearn -reset for you and go from there.

My box is supposed to be a new box replaced by BMW a few thousand miles ago and it is also a little "jerky" , most noticeable between the shifts from 2nd to 3rd and take off when not warmed up.
I filed this under one of the wonders of modern technologies.

The box should be able to take a beating.
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      03-20-2019, 07:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
just picked up the car from my Indy and spoke with the master mechanic... Fluids were maybe a half a quart off, which wasn't enough to be causing these issues. He ran codes and said there were two codes throwing for clutch "gap" errors in lower gears... I am definitely not using the right words but hopefully someone here knows what that means.

He thinks there's something internally wrong, potentially related to it being so low on the fluid last month and we didn't know how long it had been low. The car is drivable, cant tell at all in higher gears. Lower gears it definitely has it's moments of jerking slightly, especially when first starting and trying to reverse when on a slope.. or when in stop and go traffic it just doesn't feel smooth.

Am I doomed into having to get a used DCT? i guess if the top off doesn't fix it, then it means that it's not the low fluid causing then issues so replacing the pans is a waste...

Or maybe this is all in my head? the codes are concerning.. but sometimes I can't tell anything is wrong and it's flawless... it's just every now and then (warm or cold) the lower gears are doing some weird things.
I really can't see that a low fluid would cause damage before you would get codes thrown
But of course I could be wrong.
The DCT is pretty sturdy and I would go and teach-in the clutch and the other tests that are testing the clutch. With ista-d it is three procedures if I remember right.
Just google BMW DCT reader and see what I am talking about.
I really can't see that the box is damaged from somewhat lower fluid without screaming "error"

If you buy a used box you never know how this box was doing? Or if the owner had a slow leak and drive around like you.

The box does leak a little, that's undoubtedly a fact for a lot of boxes.

I would give the relearn a try before spending real money.
so mine was 4 qts low on fluid when I took it to a second Indy shop.. Unsure when it got that low, but I had it probably 6K miles prior to finding my current Indy that actually checked. No telling how long prior to my ownership that this was happening. Is this type of low fluid supposed to throw error codes in the dash or is this still not critically low to throw dash errors, or would this only show up with a code reader?
I have no idea when low is actually too low.
But if there is less/ not enough fluid in the box that will lead to overheating at some point . The other possibility should be that the pump sucks air and therefore pressure loss.
Both cases should lead to a code being thrown and perhaps limp mode.
I can not see that the box get a damage before one of those things happens.
We know from drivers that track the car that occasionally overheating message didn't destroy the box.

If the Indy knows how much was missing then I assume he has the BMW software To do a filling as outlined by BMW. In this case he should be able to to the DCT "reset".

I honestly would be more concerned that someone puts in a "automatic" gear oil, assuming that the DCT is an automatic gearbox which it is not.
The DCT needs a certain fluid and BMW in the early days replaced the gearbox and cooler and all lines should someone put the wrong fluid in.

As far as I can tell, no one knows how it looks when the wrong fluid is used to top up or even a complete flush with the wrong oil.

Did someone in your area that has the BMW software and can do a relearn -reset for you and go from there.

My box is supposed to be a new box replaced by BMW a few thousand miles ago and it is also a little "jerky" , most noticeable between the shifts from 2nd to 3rd and take off when not warmed up.
I filed this under one of the wonders of modern technologies.

The box should be able to take a beating.
Great information, thank you. This shop should be pretty good, and he's a master BMW tech with a lot of M car experience, but you never know, I will double check what fluid they used... just in case. he did hook it up to the computer and did a reset and that's when he said their were two errors or whatever saying something about a clutch gap, but I am so ignorant I didn't know what to ask.. It's perhaps OK and I'm just paranoid, but the part that made me think something is off is when I try to reverse backwards on a slight incline, it requires a decent amount of throttle and it feels like the clutch isnt fully engaging, lots of 'rubbing' but not syncing up that easily.. perhaps it's salvageable with a new gasket and pan.. but I guess I need a true e9x expert to make sure prior.

here's the fluid that they have used today..
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      03-21-2019, 12:13 PM   #19
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Do you get any trans malfunction and loss of odd/even gears? Any specific code readouts? Like Rainer M mentioned, wouldnt hurt to try resetting adaptations.

I’ve been dealing with this issue where my even gears clutch wouldn’t work and got a clutch pressure too low code. My master tech saw no leakage and determined it could have been an internal leak or failing sensor in the high pressure circuits inside the transmission. Ended up just replacing a newer transmission rather than diagnosing the issue further which could have costed more.

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