Will the G80 M3 redeem the M3?

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I can't see AWD being DCT... the DCT tranny doesn't have a front output shaft.

But if the ZCP/CS/GTS models are AWD only it will make it hard to choose the manual for the track as it won't be the happy situation you have now where anyone can retrofit GTS goodies (Diff, tranny, dsc)

For street use it is clear, for track use they will force my hand

Ah, maybe it's Auto rather than DCT.

But the full power model will not be available with a manual. And to your second point.... I wonder if the special additions will only be the full power/auto/awd platform. That'd be a shame. Then again, there is simply zero need for any more power than the current S55 puts out - it's already right at the edge of what's totally usable in a 2WD platform.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Ah, maybe it's Auto rather than DCT.

But the full power model will not be available with a manual. And to your second point.... I wonder if the special additions will only be the full power/auto/awd platform. That'd be a shame. Then again, there is simply zero need for any more power than the current S55 puts out - it's already right at the edge of what's totally usable in a 2WD platform.

I've driven 650hp ess E92s that put power down much better than the S55

I blame turbocharging for any of those issues

We'll see... one can hope

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've driven 650hp ess E92s that put power down much better than the S55

I blame turbocharging for any of those issues

We'll see... one can hope

Good point... that's the result of low torque and very high rpm. I guess I should have said "oomph" rather than "power".

But dude - as noted earlier, drive a late model F80Z.... no traction issues on stock boost. Yes, you have to take care with the throttle, but that's true for a stock E92 M3 as well. I can pretty much use full power in 2nd/3rd gears on my near-sear-level canyon runs using stock 285 PSS'..... pretty impressive. It's considerably quicker out of slow corners than my E90M was (because S65 is a dog below 5k and this is unavoidable) and consequently much more fun - the F80 is like a slingshot. Combine that with the seemingly limitless front grip and holy mother.

Oh wait.... it has a larger polar moment of inertia so it can't be good

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good point... that's the result of low torque and very high rpm. I guess I should have said "oomph" rather than "power".

But dude - as noted earlier, drive a late model F80Z.... no traction issues on stock boost. Yes, you have to take care with the throttle, but that's true for a stock E92 M3 as well. I can pretty much use full power in 2nd/3rd gears on my near-sear-level canyon runs using stock 285 PSS'..... pretty impressive. It's considerably quicker out of slow corners than my E90M was (because S65 is a dog below 5k and this is unavoidable) and consequently much more fun - the F80 is like a slingshot. Combine that with the seemingly limitless front grip and holy mother.

Oh wait.... it has a larger polar moment of inertia so it can't be good

With DCT it's easy to keep the S65 on the boil, the gearing is pretty tight. If your really pushing it you never need to drop much below 6k. You can also easily down shift to 1st gear which would be a bit sticky in a manual car. The engine is probably the most aggressive thing about the e9x, I think as an overall package its a bit of a softie really (especially when compared to the f8x).

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Montaver

With DCT it's easy to keep the S65 on the boil, the gearing is pretty tight. If your really pushing it you never need to drop much below 6k. You can also easily down shift to 1st gear which would be a bit sticky in a manual car. The engine is probably the most aggressive thing about the e9x, I think as an overall package its a bit of a softie really (especially when compared to the f8x).

Yep, I can see that. DCT gearing much shorter/closer than manual. In the manual it's impossible to not bog.

Agree that the E9X is the most refined M3 to date, by far. Much less aggressive than E46 or F80, which can be good and bad. I actually miss that about it at times....I'm getting old and these aggressive cars are very tiring.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good point... that's the result of low torque and very high rpm. I guess I should have said "oomph" rather than "power".

But dude - as noted earlier, drive a late model F80Z.... no traction issues on stock boost. Yes, you have to take care with the throttle, but that's true for a stock E92 M3 as well. I can pretty much use full power in 2nd/3rd gears on my near-sear-level canyon runs using stock 285 PSS'..... pretty impressive. It's considerably quicker out of slow corners than my E90M was (because S65 is a dog below 5k and this is unavoidable) and consequently much more fun - the F80 is like a slingshot. Combine that with the seemingly limitless front grip and holy mother.

Oh wait.... it has a larger polar moment of inertia so it can't be good

I never thought the F8Xs were spiky or unpredicable. People need to learn how to not full throttle while their steering wheel is turned.
But although the GTS is a pussycat at 500hp, at 650 it would be undriveable. The ESS cars feel great at 650 and have way more traction.

Things get worse when people boost midrange torque to 550wtq and then complain about the handling... I would get a nice linear torque tune from ESS or something and call it a day.

The DCT gearing in the E9X is a big asset, it is incredibly short and gets the most out of the S65 powerband

[Richbot]

You have too much power and torque when you can spin the wheels all the way down the longest straight

I find if a car I'm driving feels amazingly hooked up, I'm usually going too slow

I'd take the big fat torque available mid-corner any day over a "linear" curve. If you're out of position making a pass etc. the torque masks all the speed lost from being side by side through the corner and you're gone. In the E9x you bog it down and you pay for it.