M3 vs.. 911 Turbo?

[Rat3d ///M]

Okay, so this thread will have no actual M3 vs. anything content, however, as a former supercharged E90 M3 owner who recently sold his beloved ///M and made the cross over into the P Car world, I thought I would share my purchase. I've talked about it on here, so many will probably already know that I recently bought a 2007 911 Turbo. I've even shared some dealership listing photos, and maybe some photos from my pickup in Austin, Texas before I put it on a boat and said goodbye to it for 11 weeks, but now that it is back in the Motherland, all cleaned up, and finally "home", I thought I would share a recent photoshoot I did in an old abandoned airfield in Sembach, Germany.

Enjoy. My work isn't the best, but I am just a self-taught hobbyist.

Pictures were taken with a Nikon D40X w/ an 18-200mm Nikkor lens and a DJI Phantom 3 Professional.

[X5-User]

Congrats!!! Truly awesome car to own

[Helmsman]

The car looks crazy nice Rat!

[Maxf80M3]

Congrats nice car . Time for exhaust and a tune , maybe diverter valves ? I love how those cars break traction in second after tuning . It's truly an amazing feeling for AWD

[Flying Ace]

amazing, but how's your experience so far?

A while ago, I was toying about the same thing...I made an offer on a 997.1 TT. Ultimately, I think the 911 is too small for my needs as wife and I are looking to have a 2nd kid. We have an X5 for family hauling, but I do transport my kid in my M3 today, so I can't imagine squeezing 2 kids in the back, unless it's easy to deactivate the front airbag and put one kid seat in the front.

Anyways, what do you like and dislike about the TT? And please focus on the dislikes :-) Does the interior feel dated?

Btw, the 997.2 TT are coming down in price. I saw a <30k mile one posted for mid-$80s.

I ultimately decided to switch to a M6GC...but I'm taking my time and waiting for one with the right options and price. I'm not too eager to give up the M3 just yet.

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by Maxe93

Congrats nice car . Time for exhaust and a tune , maybe diverter valves ? I love how those cars break traction in second after tuning . It's truly an amazing feeling for AWD

Already ahead of you The car had a Cobb Stage 2 tune and Agency Power straight pipes from the previous owner. The only performance mods I will likely do to the car are upgraded intercoolers and an upgraded intake system. I haven't tried to break traction in second yet (car has a new clutch so I've taken it relatively easy since I picked it up) but I have no doubts it could.

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

amazing, but how's your experience so far?

A while ago, I was toying about the same thing...I made an offer on a 997.1 TT. Ultimately, I think the 911 is too small for my needs as wife and I are looking to have a 2nd kid. We have an X5 for family hauling, but I do transport my kid in my M3 today, so I can't imagine squeezing 2 kids in the back, unless it's easy to deactivate the front airbag and put one kid seat in the front.

Anyways, what do you like and dislike about the TT? And please focus on the dislikes :-) Does the interior feel dated?

Btw, the 997.2 TT are coming down in price. I saw a <30k mile one posted for mid-$80s.

I ultimately decided to switch to a M6GC...but I'm taking my time and waiting for one with the right options and price. I'm not too eager to give up the M3 just yet.

Okay, you talked me into it. I'll share a few thoughts on the car..

1. Interior/In Car Entertainment: I decided to start here, because this is the biggest difference between BMW and my E90 M3 and the 911, and is the biggest complaint I have about the car. When it comes to infotainment, stereo, ICE (in car entertainment), car audio, navigation, or whatever you want to refer to it as, Porsche really drops the ball. Granted, the car is 10 years old at this point, and I have been told that the newer Porsche's have finally caught up to the competition, but the PCM system in the 997 generation is pure garbage. It was likely outdated even in 2007 when the car was made. The button layout is not very intuitive or user friendly, and it lacks any sort of modern feel to it. If you thought the navigation in the E9x M3's was outdated today, get in a 997.1TT and let me know what you think. No touchscreen, no bluetooth, no auxiliary port, but they were nice enough to add a 6 disc cd changer, so I am rocking mix cd's like I did in the mid 2000's. There are of course aftermarket options for modernizing the PCM system (a Dension unit can add bluetooth capabilities, or you can replace the head unit with an aftermarket unit altogether) so all is not lost, but to be honest, it doesn't bother me enough to spend the money. The BOSE system sounds very good for what it is, and despite the lack of bluetooth or an aux input (I would be satisfied with the system if I could at least stream music via my phone) I am okay with it. Porsche is a driver's car. It's designed and built for one purpose: to be driven, and it was built very well for that purpose. The PCM system seems like more of an afterthought, as though the designers said "now that the car is built how we want it, let's throw something in there to keep our customers entertained while they cruise the Autobahn".

The interior build quality is on par with the E9x series M car's in my opinion, maybe slightly better. Porsche put more thought into interior quality than BMW did, and it shows. Almost everywhere you look is leather (full dash, including the lower dash and glove box, front and rear seats, door panels, visors, a/b/c pillars, rear side panels, steering wheel, gear shift/boot, e-brake, center console lid. Where there isn't leather, there is carpet (lower part of door panels for instance). There is very little plastic in the car, with the center console, PCM trim, and maybe some lower kick panels in the footwells being the only real areas where Porsche didn't go with a higher end material. Even the headliner is full Alcantara, which is a nice touch. I find the seats to be very comfortable. The headrests are quite plush, almost like a pillow. The stock seats are not performance oriented, and this is an often heard complaint from die hard track guys who own these cars, but to say the seats are not of quality is a false statement. They may not be the type of seat you want in a Porsche 911, but it's a good compromise of a luxury feel and a performance feel, with a bit more emphasis on the luxury. One thing worth mentioning about the seats, is the seating position within the car. You sit very low, almost on the floorboard. Getting in and out if you are unable to open the door entirely (such as when you are parking in the garage) can be a challenge. You almost have to roll out. I am a tad on the taller side (6'3") so it's a bit harder for me, but the car is roomier than you would think. The seats go back plenty far enough (I can barely push the clutch all the way to the floor with the seat all the way back) and with the seat bottom sitting as low as it does, headroom is a non-issue.

2. Performance: Let's get to the fun part, the performance. I have to make a slight disclaimer, my 911 is not stock. It has a Cobb Stage 2 tune, as well as Agency Power straight pipes. It's not 100% accurate, but to get a good estimate of where I am in the power department, I did a 3rd gear pull from 2000-6500 RPMs the other day using the Cobb Accessport dyno feature, and it was calculated somewhere around 620whp and 540lb/ft of torque (can't remember exactly). Stock these cars put around 480bhp and 460lb/ft of torque. Also, my M3 wasn't stock either, as I had an ESS VT1-550 supercharger that put around 580bhp and 371lb/ft of torque. With that out of the way, I will say the 911 is in another league from the E9x M3. Stock for stock there is no comparison. I never drove the 911 while it was stock, but I have to assume that with 60 more hp, 165 more torque and weighing about 400 lbs lighter, there is a significant difference. My car pulls for days, and the way the AWD system allows you to put the power to the ground is amazing. Almost no wheel spin whatsoever. It just launches. Need to pass a car on the highway? No problem. You can be cruising at 80mph in 6th gear, and you don't even need to downshift. Just punch the accelerator, and as soon as the car builds boost (which happens quickly) the car lunges forward and before you know it you are well into the triple digits. 60-150mph happens very quickly (i've done it a few times). The only complaint I would have about the power of the car is the smaller rev range. The car redlines at 6500, and you get there very quick with little warning. The other day I found myself well into the redline because I was so used to the high revving V8 that I forgot to shift. Whoops.

3. Exterior: The 911 sits low to the ground. Mine is lowered on H&R springs, but even at stock height, it is designed to hug the road and Porsche put a great deal of R&D into developing the car to go fast with very little drag. It's sleek and sexy, and with it's wide rear fenders, massive intake vents on the side, and very low front end/side skirts, it feels a bit more exotic than the ///M cars. The underbody of the car is completely covered with plastic, except for the rear quarter where the engine is. I found this to be a very nice touch, as it shows Porsche really designed these cars to be aerodynamic. Looks are subjective of course, but I would take the overall appearance of the 911 over the ///M cars any day. It is such a timeless design that ages so well that Porsche has kept the same basic design in the 911's since the 60's. It ages so well in fact, that the 997 and 991 generations look so similar, because when Porsche was designing the new 991 they felt little need to change anything.

4. Handling: I haven't had much of a chance to unleash the car, but I did get in some twisty roads a bit the other day, and it handled them very nicely. I would have to say this is a toss-up between the ///M cars and the 997.1TT. If I was a more experienced driver, I might be able to tell a difference and I may prefer the 911 (or not), but there is not much to add here, only to say that it is a very track capable car. I've read people's reviews saying that the 997.1 generation feels soft compared to other P Cars, but I just don't see it. Of course, this is the only 911 I've driven. Maybe the GT3RS is 10x better, but I wouldn't know.

5. Driving Experience: Put this all together, and what do you get? A great experience behind the wheel. The ///M cars are special in their own way, but the issue I have with them now that I've driven this car a bit, is they are everywhere, they don't look like they are anything special, and the overall feel you get driving them leaves something to be desired. They are great driver's cars, don't get me wrong, but this car is something special, and people know it. You don't see them that often (more often than higher end exotics or supercars yes, but still not that often). When 80% of the people on the street see this car, they know it's special. The ///M cars are understated. You have to know what they are to appreciate them. This car turns heads from people that don't even know anything about cars. In the last week and a half, I've had no less than 10 people stop me and ask me about the car, and I've only driven it 3 out of the 9 days. It's a huge topic of discussion at work the two days I've driven it. I parked at the gas station and when I was at the register paying I looked outside, and everyone that walked passed the car followed it with their eyes, doing a complete 180 with their heads as they walked by. It's a good feeling knowing the car brings enjoyment to others and that it's something everyone can enjoy and appreciate, not just me.

[Flying Ace]

Thanks for the extensive review. I actually drove a 991.1 TT on an extended test drive in canyons. I agree it's just balls out fast. When I accelerated it gave me the same feeling in my stomach as riding a roller coaster.

However, I still feel the lightness of the front end, even with the AWD. I doubt I put the car in a situation to allow the center diff to fully engage 50-50, but it was still a disconnected feeling with power on turns. Didn't feel great, but only bc I am not used to that type of weight transfer and light front end. I did feel the AWD grab for traction though.

Great car, just too small for my needs. Maybe I should just get. A Panny TT and call it a day? Lol

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Thanks for the extensive review. I actually drove a 991.1 TT on an extended test drive in canyons. I agree it's just balls out fast. When I accelerated it gave me the same feeling in my stomach as riding a roller coaster.

However, I still feel the lightness of the front end, even with the AWD. I doubt I put the car in a situation to allow the center diff to fully engage 50-50, but it was still a disconnected feeling with power on turns. Didn't feel great, but only bc I am not used to that type of weight transfer and light front end. I did feel the AWD grab for traction though.

Great car, just too small for my needs. Maybe I should just get. A Panny TT and call it a day? Lol

Agreed , you feel it in the pit of your stomach . My 996 TT floated on the Hwy at High speeds, even after suspension.

[pbonsalb]

What speeds are you writing about? 120? 150? 180? I have a 700 rwhp E36M3 and it feels floaty in the front end under full throttle above 100. There are probably some suspension mods that help for this, but the Texas Mile competitors would be mote useful than autocrossers for the details.

[777eThOd*]

Nice car bud!! I just got mine as well 4 Thursday's ago from Pompano! ? still got my SC'd M3 but it is for sale now I'm in no rush though!

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by 777eThOd*

Nice car bud!! I just got mine as well 4 Thursday's ago from Pompano! ? still got my SC'd M3 but it is for sale now I'm in no rush though!

Congrats and welcome to the club! How does the power of the 911 compare to the sc m3?

[777eThOd*]

Originally Posted by Rat3d ///M

Congrats and welcome to the club! How does the power of the 911 compare to the sc m3?

Idk the power is definitely there. I would like to race them side by side. On the M the pull isn't as noticeable as in the 911. I think on a roll the M might have it by a bit. This being my first AWD car is awesome and I just found out that this 911 has the same transmission that's in my AMG so I'm gonna get a TCU flashes as well, but the pull is insane it reminds me of my 335i that I had tweaked to 18psi. I did slap the Eurocharged tune as soon as I got the car but I'm looking into race exhausts and going to do the GT3 throttle body with GT2 intake y-pipe and hoping to find me some GT2 Intercoolers. Congrats to you as well on the car! Join the 997 Turbo page on Facebook! Waiting on my LED tails to come in, tomorrow is the day! Mine is an 08 btw!

[pbonsalb]

I thought the 997.1TT PDK was not so great compared to the one in the 997.2TT. Does the TCU flash make a big difference?

[jcm3]

I also went from a 997.1TT from a Sc e90. 997.1 dont have a PDK only the 997.2 do. I also agree on the size and im kinda regretting it now as its too small. Love the Panamera but that was too big.

[Rat3d ///M]

Correct, the 997.1 is the Tiptronic. PDK didn't start until the 997.2.

[777eThOd*]

Originally Posted by Rat3d ///M

Correct, the 997.1 is the Tiptronic. PDK didn't start until the 997.2.

Correct, it is the tiptronic that is in the AMG. I like the 5 gearbox more over then the 7 gearbox.

[cvstar9M3]

old thread but wanted to hear from you folks how on you like the turbo after a couple years (comparing to the SC m3). I own an e90 m3 that is in a shop now for a vf650 kit. At the same time, I've been thinking of adding a 997 turbo