2012 370z or 2013 frs?

[Small Yellow]

I owned a BRZ and I have to admit it is a fun car but dont buy it right now imo... it isnt reliable at all. I had the injector seal issue which a lot of people are starting to get and a front control arm bolt ripped a hole out of my unibody frame. I track a lot but my friends who have the same car who tracks with me every time I go dont have this issue and they drive the car just as hard as I do if not harder. Yes it is extremely fun but imo in the long run it isnt worth it. You end up getting over it and wishing bits of the interior is better and that the Subaru paint isnt so shitty and easy to chip. Did I mention the glass is thin and cracked the third day I owned it? Dont like the 370z so hence why I am looking for a z4m coupe and selling my BRZ.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by buildbright

It comes down to taste and what you like. I found the 370z to be a heavy poor handling car. The engine is worst I have came across in a long time.

Actually the Z is quite a bit lighter and nimbler than an E92 M3. It's the same size and weight as an E46 M3. The engine has a rough note but is actually one of if not the best V6 engines in the market right now. Very powerful. Can easily surpass 100 hp/L with a proper exhaust, intake, and tune. 7500 rpm. Cheap. reliable. And with a proper oil cooler can handle spirited drives and track driving. And there are plenty of cheap super and turbo charging kits. Suffice to say, the VQ is so good that Nissan used it as a starting point to build the VR twin turbo engine in the GTR.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by Levi

Can anybody show me a fast 370Z? Never seen that before, but there are plenty fast FR-S/BRZ.

How about a fast 350z? Let's see a FRS do that!

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by buildbright

I didn't put in a super cars in that list so I don't know where that came from. My point is there are tons of sports cars that are lighter and in my opinion better cars.

You said there are few sports cars lighter. I gave you a list. You change it to current production cars. I gave you a list. Now you want cars that are the same price and have more power.

If someone is going to do mostly street driving the FRS/BRZ/Miata is a better car. If your wanting to learn to race FRS/BRZ/Miata is better car. It's best to learn on lighter, lower power, more organic cars.

After driving the new Nissan 370z lineup I can tell you my opinion is it was the worst sports car I have ever driven. The interior felt junky, the car felt heavy, and would just understeer unless you broke the rear tires loose. The engine revved so rough I thought it was blown up.

The nismo edition cost more then a 135i so they are similarly priced and the 135i can be made very fast cheap and has superior balance and handling. If you don't car about weight and just want power buy a V6 mustang or a 1le camaro which offer way more performance and bang for bang then the 370z ever could. I would still recommend a BRZ/FRS.

You may like the Nissan and I can respect that but there are better options out there in my opinion.

Strange that you complain about excess weight and prominent understeer. Please don't drive an M3 then. Because you will definitely hate it

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

Actually the Z is quite a bit lighter and nimbler than an E92 M3. It's the same size and weight as an E46 M3. The engine has a rough note but is actually one of if not the best V6 engines in the market right now. Very powerful. Can easily surpass 100 hp/L with a proper exhaust, intake, and tune. 7500 rpm. Cheap. reliable. And with a proper oil cooler can handle spirited drives and track driving. And there are plenty of cheap super and turbo charging kits. Suffice to say, the VQ is so good that Nissan used it as a starting point to build the VR twin turbo engine in the GTR.

First of all the M3 is luxury sports sedan based car. The 370z is suppose to compete with lightweight sports cars atleast that's what the vice president of Nismo told me. To me for its size it feels small inside and heavier to drive then the M3.

I use to be a Z fan until I drove the lineup at the track recently and came back dissapointed. To me i don't care how much power that engine puts out. It sounds like crap and is the roughest reving engine I have ever drove. But if you love it I respect that it's just not my type of sportscar.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by F32

Forgot about the Koenigsegg Agera R and Pagani Zonda F. Those are RWD and lighter than a 370Z, too.

What about Sebastian Vettel's Red Bull F1 racer? Way lighter and far more powerful than a 370z. Oh, and it doesn't understeer as much

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

Strange that you complain about excess weight and prominent understeer. Please don't drive an M3 then. Because you will definitely hate it

I have about 20 hours of track time on the M3 E92. It's one of the best cars I have driven. I find it very tossable on the track, and very neutral after a proper alighnment Do you actually like the 370z better?

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

See, you're more focused on numbers and speed instead of having a lighter chassis with a more playful and involved driving experience.

I'm in the market for one of these cars and the 370Z doesn't even make the long list for me. I want something that's light and tossable that doesn't have to travel at extra-legal speeds to get some tire scrubbing or some rear end play going.

If you have more fun racing at stoplights or 1-upping some people on the road, go for the Z. If you're buying the car because you like to drive, go for the GT86 twins.

I don't get why people say the Z isn't tossable or fun. Just throw away the sticky fat tires, and put tires from a Nissan Leaf on it. And it will be just as tossable as the FRS. Toyota didn't discover some top secret formula for making a fun driver's car. They just put crappy Prius tires on the FRS, so it just slides everywhere.

[Billj747]

Speedaddict: -have you read all the posts in the thread? :-P

Originally Posted by buildbright

I have about 20 hours of track time on the M3 E92. It's one of the best cars I have driven. I find it very tossable on the track, and very neutral after a proper alighnment Do you actually like the 370z better?

Apples:Oranges -unless you drove a 370 with a proper alignment as well. With a proper alignment, you can pretty much make any car turn well.

I agree with you that even a stock (alignment and all) E92 handles very well, even more neutral than the E46 which had the typical BMW understeer-to-power-on-oversteer characteristic. In this sense, you could say the E46 feels heavy and very much like a heavy turd-bucket. The 370 probably isn't as bad as a stock E46 M3 in this regards. -Same with the 350Z which is one of the best stock drifting cars ive driven.

For track use, it's really hard to compete with the front tire you can fit under Zs.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by buildbright

First of all the M3 is luxury sports sedan based car. The 370z is suppose to compete with lightweight sports cars atleast that's what the vice president of Nismo told me. To me for its size it feels small inside and heavier to drive then the M3.

I use to be a Z fan until I drove the lineup at the track recently and came back dissapointed. To me i don't care how much power that engine puts out. It sounds like crap and is the roughest reving engine I have ever drove. But if you love it I respect that it's just not my type of sportscar.

But the 370z IS lightweight. The other cars that you listed that are lighter like a miata or FRS are way smaller in size than the Z. The Z is still roomy enough to be a daily driver. Have you ever sat in an S2000 or Miata? It's like sitting in a can of sardines. The Z at 3300 lb is light enough. Sure, you can say the 12C, Italia, Z06, Alfa 4c, Zonda are lighter and just as roomy inside, but these cars are in a different price tag and can use more expensive materials like aluminum and carbon fibre. The Z is as big as an E46 M3. How much did that weigh? How much does a BMW Z4 weigh?

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by buildbright

I have about 20 hours of track time on the M3 E92. It's one of the best cars I have driven. I find it very tossable on the track, and very neutral after a proper alighnment Do you actually like the 370z better?

So you did change the alignment? Well, how do you know the Z, or the Civic, or the Dodge Caravan or whatever won't be "tossable" with a different alignment setup? The fact is that a stock unmodified M3 comes from the factory with loads of understeer. That isn't helped by the front heavy weight bias either. Anyone who has driven on a track knows it. Just like anyone who has driven on the track can feel the 3700 lb curb weight.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

So you did change the alignment? Well, how do you know the Z, or the Civic, or the Dodge Caravan or whatever won't be "tossable" with a different alignment setup? The fact is that a stock unmodified M3 comes from the factory with loads of understeer. That isn't helped by the front heavy weight bias either. Anyone who has driven on a track knows it. Just like anyone who has driven on the track can feel the 3700 lb curb weight.

I did not change the alignment in the Nismo 370z or The M3 it was done by Nismo and BMW Motorsports techs. I don't know many people who have tracked an M3 that hate it as much as you do. You should sell it and buy your dream car a 370z. My point is having track experience with both cars the 370z is not my favorite car. I had more fun in the Nismo juke.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

But the 370z IS lightweight. The other cars that you listed that are lighter like a miata or FRS are way smaller in size than the Z. The Z is still roomy enough to be a daily driver. Have you ever sat in an S2000 or Miata? It's like sitting in a can of sardines. The Z at 3300 lb is light enough. Sure, you can say the 12C, Italia, Z06, Alfa 4c, Zonda are lighter and just as roomy inside, but these cars are in a different price tag and can use more expensive materials like aluminum and carbon fibre. The Z is as big as an E46 M3. How much did that weigh? How much does a BMW Z4 weigh?

I fit in a Miata and FRS just fine but they are small. The Z to me isnt much bigger if at all. I have drove an S2000 as well, and it's an awesome sports car.

BTW I never said a 12C, Italia, or Zonda. Your being silly but a brand new Nismo 370z is 43k. Ok now read slow so you understand. A new Boxter is 50k and a Cayman is 52k so they are not that much more. Also you can pick up a used Z06 for around 40k or less depending on the year and mileage.

I don't think you understand my point. If you like the 370z love it and that is fine with me. But I prefer more balanced cars. "You like what you like" sorry if this offends you.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by buildbright

I did not change the alignment in the Nismo 370z or The M3 it was done by Nismo and BMW Motorsports techs. I don't know many people who have tracked an M3 that hate it as much as you do. You should sell it and buy your dream car a 370z. My point is having track experience with both cars the 370z is not my favorite car. I had more fun in the Nismo juke.

You actually think a Nismo Joke, err, I mean Juke is more fun on a track than a 370z on a track? I rest my case. Can't have an intelligent discussion with someone who drops a bomb like that into the conversation.

Peace out.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Speedaddict: -have you read all the posts in the thread? :-P

Apples:Oranges -unless you drove a 370 with a proper alignment as well. With a proper alignment, you can pretty much make any car turn well.

I agree with you that even a stock (alignment and all) E92 handles very well, even more neutral than the E46 which had the typical BMW understeer-to-power-on-oversteer characteristic. In this sense, you could say the E46 feels heavy and very much like a heavy turd-bucket. The 370 probably isn't as bad as a stock E46 M3 in this regards. -Same with the 350Z which is one of the best stock drifting cars ive driven.

For track use, it's really hard to compete with the front tire you can fit under Zs.

The 370z had an alignment from a Nismo tech that was doing all the suspension work on the GTRs and 370z. Really nice guy show me in person what happens when you add toe in the rear.

Yes I agree with you. I respect your opinion because you are not a bench racer like some of the others on this fourm. You make good points and don't start getting offensive. It just comes down to you like what you like. You like torque and drifting, that's kool with me.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

How about a fast 350z? Let's see a FRS do that!

Comparing apples to oranges?

Tsukuba (Japan)
200 PS Toyota GT86 TRD: 1:01.872
570 PS Ferrari 458 Italia: 1:02.240

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Levi

Comparing apples to oranges?

Tsukuba (Japan)
200 PS Toyota GT86 TRD: 1:01.872
570 PS Ferrari 458 Italia: 1:02.240

Good post but you are arguing with someone who knows nothing about cars except what he learns on the Internet.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Good post but you are arguing with someone who knows nothing about cars except what he learns on the Internet.

You're in no position to criticize anyone's car knowledge. You think a Juke is more fun to drive than a 370z. That says it all about your so-called "knowledge".

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Greddy82

Well i was more focused on Value... for about 2k more you get much better car for the money...
Notice:2014 370z price dropped 3k....
BRZ/FRS is a great car, dont get me wrong but does it worth its price tag??
i would say No

370z competes with much higher priced sports cars.. and simply not in same league as FRS/BRZ..
and your sig clearly showing you own FRS

I'm in the market for an 86 or something else in the >$35k range. I'm still rocking an '08 335i with 100k+ miles and it's about that time to jump ship. As I said before, the 370Z doesn't fit any of my wants or needs aside from its on paper stats. I (*personally) think it misses the aesthetic and driving experience mark by a mile.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

I don't get why people say the Z isn't tossable or fun. Just throw away the sticky fat tires, and put tires from a Nissan Leaf on it. And it will be just as tossable as the FRS. Toyota didn't discover some top secret formula for making a fun driver's car. They just put crappy Prius tires on the FRS, so it just slides everywhere.

There's a lot more to cornering attitude than a tire's characteristics, like CoG, weight, wheelbase, suspension geometry, distribution, etc.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

There's a lot more to cornering attitude than a tire's characteristics, like CoG, weight, wheelbase, suspension geometry, distribution, etc.

+1. However if you put 370Z sized tires on a FRS, it wouldn't be a whole lot of fun (from a rotation/sliding standpoint).

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Billj747

+1. However if you put 370Z sized tires on a FRS, it wouldn't be a whole lot of fun (from a rotation/sliding standpoint).

I agree. Mechanical grip should match chassis limitations and engine output. You've gotta have a little slip and slide!