Buying New M3, M-DCT or Manual, 2009 or 2010?

[CardinalZeus77]

I had this same issue DCT or Manaul.
I drove both cars and preferred the Manual but then I have always driven a Manaul . Its a personal choice ... colour ... Black!

[mixja]

shiv - Did you come out of an RS4? Haven't heard of an RS3...

If you did come out of an RS4 then you'll be disappointed in the 6MT in the M3. I've read it is a step up from the E46 M3 6MT, but it is nowhere as good as the RS4 6MT.

M3 DCT has 7 gears which means it will be faster assuming engine power is like for like and despite the 50lb of extra weight. The extra gear really contributes to much better low to mid-RPM response in 3rd gear onwards, where you do tend to feel the 6MT with its much taller gearing is a bit lacking in torque. The M3 DCT also maintains speed much better than the 6MT in daily driving conditions, making driving more pleasurable with less effort. The continuous uninterrupted surge of momentum that is possible with such fast gear changes is quite exhilirating in the DCT. Plus DCT has better fuel economy, so it probably pays itself off over time.

Nothing can quite beat driving full throttle on a race track in a good 6MT with a car with this type of power and control, but I don't think the M3 6MT is perfect and how often are you on the track?

With regards to the lag, yes sadly I have the problem too, although you do adapt your driving over time. After 3000 miles I only notice the issue on the odd occasion, yes it is annoying and yes I think BMW can fix it, here's hoping.

Put it this way, after a month in a M3 6MT loaner whilst I waited an excrutiating 8 months for a DCT I was over the 6MT - frustrated with the transmission (compared to my previous 07 RS4) and it didn't feel that fast (although I knew it was deceptively quick). The DCT however is a different kettle of fish - it feels a step up from the 6MT in terms of pace - and after 3 months I am still growing fonder of the DCT each passing day...

[MMMorish]

If it's your daily driver I'd go manual. I did and I love it. Go DCT if you're gonna track your car. I've never driven a DCT, though I'd like to someday, but I hear way too many complaints about the lag. It seems like it bothers you already, so don't set yourself up for disappointment and get the 6MT.

Red or black? If it's for the exterior, I'd say either one is nice. Melbourne Red is a special M only colour, which is nice. If you're going black, I'd suggest going Jerez Black as it is a special M only colour as well. I went Space Grey and I love it, but if I could buy my car again, I'd probably go with a special M only colour just to be different from the rest of the 3 series line up.

If you're talking about the interior, I'd say either is nice too. Just don't waist your money on extended leather. Black you won't even see and red will be too much IMO.

Whatever you choose, I'm sure you'll be happy.

Cheers!

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by mixja

...

If you did come out of an RS4 then you'll be disappointed in the 6MT in the M3. I've read it is a step up from the E46 M3 6MT, but it is nowhere as good as the RS4 6MT...

There's no problem with the MT itself, but the stock linkage is a little vague. There are several aftermarket SSK. I've got the UUC kit which significantly quickens the shifts (particularly 1-2) while bringing precision and smoothness up to the top echelon, IMHO.

Dave

[10M3MAN]

Im holding out for the 2010 with DCT...Alpine White FTW...

[Davo2003]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

I debated similar things before I finally ordered my M3. I test drove the DCT and 6 speed manual 2 times each. Basically, the 6 speed manual was a "must-have" option for myself. My wife and family members strongly disagreed....And I went through so much to get my 6 speed manual in my M3 that I recently ordered. My wife is still dissappointed with me for choosing the manual, but I still have no regrets.

I am a driving enthisiast, and most will never understand my passion for cars these days. A true manual changes the overall driving experience dramatically. The DCT is very fast, and most likely even a tad bit faster than the manual.....But the manual gives you much more control over the car, and you just FEEL what the car is all about.

You either MUST have a 6 speed manual, or you don't. It's as simple as that.

I had one of the first if not the first MDCT in the States (May 08 delivery). I have always been an MT guy but decided to take a chance. The MDCT was a blast at times but I have to tell you, you lose much of the feel of the car if you are an MT person. I work overseas so after selling my M3 last summer I bought a 2009 Rabbit for a DD. The Rabbit with MT is a blast to drive and road feel is excellent. I will be ordering a 2010 M3 but with an MT. With the MDCT I could not feel the car/road half as much as an MT. You cannot replace that one hand on the wheel one hand on the stick feeling. No if's and's or but's. Plus, the MDCT has so many idiosyncracies it is amazing. I will never forget sitting at a red light when an E55 AMG pulled up and wanted to play. He was really admiring the M3 and complimenting it so I said, let's go. Light turns green, he nails it I nail it (in Auto mode) . The M3 just sat there for a second then when the revs hit 5K the clutch dumped and off I went...about two car lengths behind him. The lag thing and figuring out when the MDCT will most likely let you down is horrible. MT's are like Ukrainian call girls, they always pull through

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by valeram

Like you, I am a long time MT driver but I ordered my M3 in DCT. I got this lag issue (I don't consider it a problem). You can work around it by just driving your car manually and don't let the system downshift for you. If you want to save money (who don't want to) get the MT. But DCT is something that you will enjoy as much as an MT.

+1 in all said, except for the last sentense. I've also been driving MTs all my life till now and I am really enjoying DCT more than a MT (in trafic, track, highway, everywhere). I am irritated with the lag but if I had to chose again, I would go with DCT as the lag cannot overshadow this brilliant (in all other respects) box.

[rea1000]

Next time your at a light with an e55 use your lanch control!!! I really don't notice the lag when I'm in mdrive. The manual tranny is fun but I feel for everyday driving m-dct is more practical and faster "for sure". I owned a z06 before my m and its just a pain in the ass if your in the city. Thats just my opinion. "an opinion is like an asshole. Everyone has one." Good luck!! p.s. at the track its a fucking dream..

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by Davo2003

The M3 just sat there for a second then when the revs hit 5K the clutch dumped and off I went...about two car lengths behind him.

This sort of lag is inherent to all similar transmissions.

[shiv]

Originally Posted by mixja

shiv - Did you come out of an RS4? Haven't heard of an RS3...

If you did come out of an RS4 then you'll be disappointed in the 6MT in the M3. I've read it is a step up from the E46 M3 6MT, but it is nowhere as good as the RS4 6MT.

M3 DCT has 7 gears which means it will be faster assuming engine power is like for like and despite the 50lb of extra weight. The extra gear really contributes to much better low to mid-RPM response in 3rd gear onwards, where you do tend to feel the 6MT with its much taller gearing is a bit lacking in torque. The M3 DCT also maintains speed much better than the 6MT in daily driving conditions, making driving more pleasurable with less effort. The continuous uninterrupted surge of momentum that is possible with such fast gear changes is quite exhilirating in the DCT. Plus DCT has better fuel economy, so it probably pays itself off over time.

Nothing can quite beat driving full throttle on a race track in a good 6MT with a car with this type of power and control, but I don't think the M3 6MT is perfect and how often are you on the track?

With regards to the lag, yes sadly I have the problem too, although you do adapt your driving over time. After 3000 miles I only notice the issue on the odd occasion, yes it is annoying and yes I think BMW can fix it, here's hoping.

Put it this way, after a month in a M3 6MT loaner whilst I waited an excrutiating 8 months for a DCT I was over the 6MT - frustrated with the transmission (compared to my previous 07 RS4) and it didn't feel that fast (although I knew it was deceptively quick). The DCT however is a different kettle of fish - it feels a step up from the 6MT in terms of pace - and after 3 months I am still growing fonder of the DCT each passing day...

Ya my bad sorry i meant RS4!!! and for the record i was not a fan of the RS4 at all the M3 feels so much better to drive.

[shiv]

Since i noticed the lag with the M-DCT on the test drive i really don't want to set my self up for dissapointment. This is going to be my daily driver and i am not tracking the car so i will probably go with the 6-MT.

[dcstep]

Shiv, I think you'll be very happy.

Dave

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by 10M3MAN

Im holding out for the 2010 with DCT...Alpine White FTW...

Another AW?

[mixja]

Originally Posted by Davo2003

I had one of the first if not the first MDCT in the States (May 08 delivery). I have always been an MT guy but decided to take a chance. The MDCT was a blast at times but I have to tell you, you lose much of the feel of the car if you are an MT person. I work overseas so after selling my M3 last summer I bought a 2009 Rabbit for a DD. The Rabbit with MT is a blast to drive and road feel is excellent. I will be ordering a 2010 M3 but with an MT. With the MDCT I could not feel the car/road half as much as an MT. You cannot replace that one hand on the wheel one hand on the stick feeling. No if's and's or but's. Plus, the MDCT has so many idiosyncracies it is amazing. I will never forget sitting at a red light when an E55 AMG pulled up and wanted to play. He was really admiring the M3 and complimenting it so I said, let's go. Light turns green, he nails it I nail it (in Auto mode) . The M3 just sat there for a second then when the revs hit 5K the clutch dumped and off I went...about two car lengths behind him. The lag thing and figuring out when the MDCT will most likely let you down is horrible. MT's are like Ukrainian call girls, they always pull through

You can still do this on the DCT, in fact when I drive hard through a twisty set of roads I found myself instinctively moving away from the paddles down to the column shifter.

Paddles are great for drag racing or changing on a high speed sweeper.

With the two car lengths you probably turned out ultimately in the same position that you would have in the 6MT

[mixja]

Originally Posted by dcstep

There's no problem with the MT itself, but the stock linkage is a little vague. There are several aftermarket SSK. I've got the UUC kit which significantly quickens the shifts (particularly 1-2) while bringing precision and smoothness up to the top echelon, IMHO.

Dave

You must agree the ratios are also too tall

[mixja]

Originally Posted by shiv

Ya my bad sorry i meant RS4!!! and for the record i was not a fan of the RS4 at all the M3 feels so much better to drive.

Yeah I was meaning the transmission - the RS4 manual transmission is perfect IMO and it was the biggest eye opener for me when I first drove the M3 6MT. The difference in clutch feel also was noticeable - the RS4 has a stronger clutch feel which I prefer.

Put that RS4 transmission in the M3 then I'd be happy.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Well, I can understand someone liking the DCT, but the engine being made for the transmission is a bit of a stretch.

Why? The DCT requires a very low inertia lightweight engine in order to work as designed...do you think its just a coincidence that the M3 has the engine it has?

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by mixja

You must agree the ratios are also too tall

I don't know what that has to do with the feel of the 1-2 shift. Still, since you bring it up, 1st gear is too short, but I'm sure that they did that for the all-important 0-60 time.

Dave

[southlight]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Why? The DCT requires a very low inertia lightweight engine in order to work as designed...do you think its just a coincidence that the M3 has the engine it has?

If I remember correctly, it was somewhat a coincidence that the M3 has DCT. BMW could as well have chosen SMG. Actually, when they started the development of this M3, they most probably had not DCT in their mind but SMG.


Best regards,
south

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Why? The DCT requires a very low inertia lightweight engine in order to work as designed...do you think its just a coincidence that the M3 has the engine it has?

"Low inertia lightweight" engine describes 100% of the F1 engines in the last 50-years. Could BMW been trying to emulate their racing heritage?

Also, look at the V10 in the M5/M6, which is the V8's daddy. It's saddled with the pathetic SMG. Hopefully they'll fix that with the next generation.

DCT is clearly the next generation of performance automatics. They've now mated it with the six in the new Z4. Was that engine designed around the DCT??? Duh, no. They're going to match to every car it'll fit and ultimately retire the SMG, at least that's my guess. One day soon it may be the only choice in the M3.

You're grasping at straws. You argument doesn't hold an ounce of truth.

Dave

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by southlight

If I remember correctly, it was somewhat a coincidence that the M3 has DCT. BMW could as well have chosen SMG. Actually, when they started the development of this M3, they most probably had not DCT in their mind but SMG.
Best regards,
south

I don't think that is correct. AIUI BMW would have introduced the DCT earlier but for some licensing conflicts with VW and their DSG design. The E46 M3 engine was designed to mate with the SMG and it worked pretty well and if you've driven something like an early Maserati V8 with the Cambiocorsa then its soon apparent how poorly SMG works with a more conventional (not lightweight) engine and therefore how important low engine inertia is in making these gearboxs work well.
BMWs V10 was again designed with SMG and ultimately DCT in mind (is the USA the only market where you can even buy the M5/6 with a MT? you certainly can't buy it with a MT in the UK). I don't believe BMW would have developed the M5/6/3 engine in its current format if SMG/DCT technology was not a critical element, the compromised barely adequate level of torque would be otherwise a compromise too far.

[riyatch]

Originally Posted by dcstep

DCT is clearly the next generation of performance automatics. They've now mated it with the six in the new Z4. Was that engine designed around the DCT??? Duh, no. They're going to match to every car it'll fit and ultimately retire the SMG, at least that's my guess. One day soon it may be the only choice in the M3.

your guess is just that, a guess. of course the engine of the M3 was not made for DCT but instead with DCT in mind, just as the M5/M6 were both designed with SMG in mind due to its high revving nature. infact, a 6MT was not even planned until MT diehards in the US insisted on it.
i love MT's as much as anyone but for the M3, DCT just feels right