|
|
02-13-2010, 02:29 AM | #45 |
Lieutenant Colonel
340
Rep 1,805
Posts |
and PG: seems pretty unfair that all the sudden its expected of powerchip to fly to AZ...where did that come from? You definitely seem biased here...i understand your friendly with ESS...but be impartial
and you said if the battle doesnt happen shows PC has something to hide..and what about ESS, if it doesnt happen ,maybe they got something to hide...seems to easy for ESS to say hey fly to us. You make it seem like if it doesnt happen its all pc's fault...maybe ess should fly to PC then if it doesnt happen shows ess has a bad tune. (thats not what im saying, its crazyness, but thats exactly what you said). Just seems unfair the way its all getting laid on PC..make this an even battle! Hope nobody misinterprets my message...not taking sides, cause i dont give 2 shits who wins..just from what i read it didnt seem fair...and i would like to see it happen on an even battlefield and maybe they can split the bill for plane and accomadations...so there is less excuses for this to not happen
__________________
17' M2 DCT - KW CS - Re71r - Carbotech
BW C13 - 1:57:2 ACS - 1:49:6 WSIR - 1:30:6 Last edited by TheKosherStogie; 02-13-2010 at 03:03 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 07:14 AM | #47 |
Major
269
Rep 1,282
Posts |
Should involve 1 bone stock car and 2 others with various levels of common upgrades: one with MS filter, cat-back & pulley only, and then one with X-pipe & HFC's or cat delete. PC says they alter the map based on mods. I'm guessing ESS does the same. Let's see it.
__________________
M850i Vert with RaceChip
E46 M3, Euro Headers, Rasp Pipe, Kassel Tune Alpina B8, zero performance mods |
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 09:00 AM | #48 | |
Automotive Industry Insider
462
Rep 1,948
Posts |
Quote:
I agree these claims need to be explored further. (to verify or debunk them once and for all) The concept of a "custom tune" on the E9x M3 for a specific set of engine performance mods is very perplexing to me...since the Siemens MSS 60 ECU features a target-based software algorithm that uses three parallel 32-bit microprocessors (and more than a dozen engine senors) to calculate the horsepower & torque of the S65B40 V8 engine in any gear, and at any rpm. Since the basic software coding tables are designed by BMW to adapt on it's own (within a fixed preset target range), it's interesting to here how any tuner can claim they wrote a "custom tune" for a particular M3. (since the basic engine management software does not support a very narrow software programming methodology) It will be interesting to here how this can be done, without completely ditching or re-writing the BMW factory software's basic architecture. Implementing or re-writing a whole new software operating system on the factory ECU is not feasible for an aftermarket tuner. That would take years, and you would need Siemens help to accomplish that goal. This is completely out of the question, since both BMW OEM ECU suppliers (Siemens & Bosch) has to sign a non-disclosure agreement with BMW corporate. So the ability to write a one-off "custom tune" for a single car is very interesting indeed. Even if you could overcome all these obstacles, a "custom tune" is actually a less desirable path to take...since our target-based engine management software architecture, will actually allow the engine to work within a larger comfort zone. The ECU has the versatility to adapt to a variety of changes such as fuel quality or octane level, a dirty fuel filter, a dirty air filter, a dirty fuel injector on one or more cylinders, changes in air density due to weather or elevation, slightly fouled spark plugs or reduced ignition coil performance, erratic idle control valve performance, 02 sensor malfunctions, air mass sensor malfunctions, throttle position sensor malfunctions, VANOS camshaft sensor malfunctions, etc, etc, etc... I can only imagine what type of engine related issues would arise from using any an unproven engine management software operating system, and how that would affect the engine long term. I sure hope the one-off "custom tuning" claims turn out to be accurate, or there will be a lot of unhappy customers out there who shelled out extra cash for a unique "custom" tune for their car...only to find out it was just smoke and mirrors. Can't wait to see the results of this showdown.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 10:42 AM | #49 | |
390
Rep 3,149
Posts |
Quote:
AJ would be more than happy to pay for your ticket out. I would assume since you challenged us you would be willing to put some effort into this to prove your point. I look forward to you contacting me to set up a date. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 11:55 AM | #50 |
Colonel
253
Rep 2,090
Posts |
__________________
2012 Audi R8 V10TT| 6MT| Suzuka Grey
2015 Ferrari 458 Speciale| Rosso Scuderia 2020 BMW X7| Mineral White 2024 718 GT4 RS | Arctic Grey |
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 12:08 PM | #51 |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
3387
Rep 7,541
Posts |
Lemans_Blue - I disagree with some of your statements and will respond later. I think you are doing a great job of retyping BMW documentation! What is your affiliation with ESS?
Going to work on my turbo 7 series for most of the day. Good to know ESS will pay for the ticket. I assume all accommodations will be taken care of also. Thanks
__________________
-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |----- ----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133---- Last edited by BPMSport; 02-13-2010 at 12:17 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 12:28 PM | #52 |
Major General
285
Rep 6,007
Posts |
Wow, sounds like an awesome challenge.
Now I don't care who wins since I'll not be tuning my ECU so I'm not taking sides.... But Mike, you sure do have a lot of excuses popping up for not making it to AZ for the challenge... At least that's how it sounds by reading your posts.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 12:33 PM | #53 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
340
Rep 1,805
Posts |
Quote:
Legit
__________________
17' M2 DCT - KW CS - Re71r - Carbotech
BW C13 - 1:57:2 ACS - 1:49:6 WSIR - 1:30:6 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 12:46 PM | #54 | |
390
Rep 3,149
Posts |
Quote:
Last edited by sales@ESSTuning; 02-13-2010 at 03:28 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 01:18 PM | #56 |
Colonel
108
Rep 2,279
Posts |
Robert, based on your involvement with both sides, you are clearly a biased party, and that bias shows through in your posts (even the ones you've revised). Ironically, you've not so subtly accused PC owners of bias (maintaining silence about problems) despite your poll showing the contrary. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, even moderators, but you're not in the right position to arbitrate this little competition. I think you should step back and give Roman and Mike room to work out the best way to compare ESS's and Powerchip's products in a manner that is fair, enlightening to the public, and mutually protects the parties' proprietary information. That said, your input here is valuable and appreciated, and I don't mean to imply the opposite.
__________________
'09 Interlagos Blue E92 M3 (sold to a good home)
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 01:46 PM | #58 | |
Automotive Industry Insider
462
Rep 1,948
Posts |
Quote:
My 'affiliation' extends no farther than my humble appreciation for how ESS operates their business model, their absolute insistence on getting it right the first time out of the box, their extensive in-house R&D and testing philosophy that applies to every retail product they sell, the fact that they only hire the best and the brightest, the fact that ESS would rather tune and market a product that advertises modest (conservative) gains, rather than at the extreme edges (where problems can crop up), their absolute attention to detail, their vast NA and FI experience, their excellent customer service, and finally their dedication and competence in tuning BMW cars over the past 15 years. That's the extent of my 'affiliation' Mike. Thanks for asking.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 01:58 PM | #59 | ||||
Lieutenant Colonel
67
Rep 1,895
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Challenge made & challenge accepted. Now make a date w/o excuses. Let's see the results. |
||||
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 02:09 PM | #60 |
Brigadier General
169
Rep 3,831
Posts |
Im going to add my 2 cents here.
I think that if members really want to see this happen, they need to be respectful to both companies. Let them sort out their timetables and where they want it to happen. Its great to give them suggestions on how to go about the test in a UNBIASED way and great go keep the board involved. But, if we keep posting our own biased/negative posts here, then we will def not see this happen. A clear and unbiased format needs to be agreed upon, that should be made public, and then we let the guys do their thing at an independent dyno. Let the dynos and the results speak for themselves.
__________________
Last edited by STALKER; 02-13-2010 at 02:28 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 02:38 PM | #61 | |
SWARM & COIN
17
Rep 466
Posts |
I disagree. I am no expert when it comes to chip tunes and mechanical or electronic engineering. However, I am quite well versed in scientific research design. All I read was how to have a controlled environment with strict parameters for establishing a control group and experiment group while minimizing the possibility of contamination. I thought PG's recommendations were spot on, which will only benefit all the forum members who are following this thread. Why is that biased?
Quote:
Last edited by major_kusanagi; 02-13-2010 at 02:52 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 02:40 PM | #62 | |
The Asian Sensation
56
Rep 708
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 02:48 PM | #63 |
The Asian Sensation
56
Rep 708
Posts |
Wow. Calling Powerchip out. Hopefully he won't back down and make this happen.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 03:06 PM | #64 | |
Colonel
108
Rep 2,279
Posts |
Quote:
I simply felt some concern given his involvement with both sides (some of which is public knowledge, some of which is not) and the tenor of some of his posts (see #30, for example, implying that only the PC tune might have safety issues) and another post that was revised (previously implying that PC customers have been keeping silent about issues with the tune). Moreover, I'm sure that both ESS and PC have concerns about protecting their proprietary information related to the tunes themselves, and they're probably the best ones to determine where to draw the line on how much information they're willing to share. I hope this clarifies my previous post.
__________________
'09 Interlagos Blue E92 M3 (sold to a good home)
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 03:13 PM | #65 | |
SWARM & COIN
17
Rep 466
Posts |
Thx and no worries. As I said, I am a total noob in this regard. I clearly see your point. But in the grand scheme of things, we need what PG recommended precisely to avoid the flaming quagmire we are concerned about. Politics is one things, but PG's methodology is mostly and perfectly sound.
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-13-2010, 03:54 PM | #66 |
Let's Race
16
Rep 125
Posts |
I bet the overall numbers would be higher if they tested the tunes in California vs Arizona due to differences in temps and elevation. On the other hand I guess it is of no importance as the difference between the stock and aftermarket tune will still be the same. Just thinking out loud.
__________________
2010 BMW M3 Coupe Alpine White - DCT |
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|