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      12-26-2019, 04:59 PM   #353
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Hi,

do anyone know if it is possible to fit the
Fxx Drexler internal (3310 7555607) in an E8x or E9x 188 casing?

Thanks for your lights!

Edit: for people interrested the PN of the Lsd inside the M performance 7555607 is Drexler DSD-100-100-00418 my idea is it is derived from the DSD-100-100-00408 that fit E90 F2x E82...

I am confident that it will fit in my 125i pumpkin because they are the same.

i wil fit it in the next weeks.
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      01-02-2020, 10:44 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ornicar View Post
Hi,

do anyone know if it is possible to fit the
Fxx Drexler internal (3310 7555607) in an E8x or E9x 188 casing?

Thanks for your lights!

Edit: for people interrested the PN of the Lsd inside the M performance 7555607 is Drexler DSD-100-100-00418 my idea is it is derived from the DSD-100-100-00408 that fit E90 F2x E82...

I am confident that it will fit in my 125i pumpkin because they are the same.

i wil fit it in the next weeks.
The photos of the M performance inner diff.
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      01-20-2020, 09:20 PM   #355
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ornicar View Post
Hi,

do anyone know if it is possible to fit the
Fxx Drexler internal (3310 7555607) in an E8x or E9x 188 casing?

Thanks for your lights!

Edit: for people interrested the PN of the Lsd inside the M performance 7555607 is Drexler DSD-100-100-00418 my idea is it is derived from the DSD-100-100-00408 that fit E90 F2x E82...

I am confident that it will fit in my 125i pumpkin because they are the same.

i wil fit it in the next weeks.
The photos of the M performance inner diff.
FYI, it fit! it is 100% plug & play
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      01-30-2020, 09:49 AM   #356
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The diff by driftflo doesn't lock at all after one season... The diff has been disassembled. Some parts are skewed and diff cannot be locked at all.

Here is what we can see in the diff:




Last edited by RomanK; 01-30-2020 at 01:03 PM..
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      01-31-2020, 11:21 AM   #357
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i do not see anything bad in the pics above?! what exactly do you complain?
what made you think it does not lock anymore? do you think the preload is too low after you measured it? or is the amount of lockup too low for your application? the friction disc that can be seen looks fine. so does the outer disc although you shot it on the wrong side... the side you can see here did face the cupspring.
please tell us what exactly is scewed. i only see the marc of the cupspring, which is normal. but you can see quite well where the spring hits the disc (NOT on the outer edge but somewhere in the middle... so the load on the clutchpack is more even) and that the wear on the friction disc is perfectly even as well.

to be honest you are the first who does complain about this setup. and the pictures you provide here do not show your complains?!
also i am wondering why you did not contact me?! i just saw your post after i randomly checked m3post.
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      02-02-2020, 04:10 AM   #358
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This is one clutch plate:



This is another clutch from other side of diff:



I suppose that because of small diameter belleville spring (i suppose from other type of diff (188 for example)), one ramp plate was skewed and one side did not work at all. Why do you use small diameter belleville spring for this type of differential?
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      02-02-2020, 11:04 AM   #359
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drexler does sell/use these springs in this kind of diffs ;-)
i prefer using these drexler springs in my units as well as it makes sense to have the pressure not on the outer edge only. you can see this if you look at the perfectly even wear pattern on all clutches pictured above. but if one wants the pressure on the outside with a "full size" spring, i would have these in stock as well.

by the way: we exchanged 19 emails but you never actually ordered any lsd from me. i was suggesting a drexler unit with 8 clutchpacks for your application and also suggested detailed setup options for your needs.
but finally you seem to have bought this low budget standard 4cp zf unit second hand?!
(but still: everything pictured above looks perfectly fine. but this unit can only perform within its limits because of the limited space inside the core)

so i do not understand your complains about the above unit... and i am still sure a drexler with the setup i suggested to you would have been the better choice for you!

so you complain about a 2nd hand lsd that i did never recommend to you. would make more sense to buy a setup that fits your performance needs next time! buying the cheaper unit does not make sense in any case :-(
this is exactly the reason why i do not sell "off the shelf" stuff but build every unit after i know what a customer expects or how he uses the car. you prove me that i should keep this extra guidance for my customers.
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      02-02-2020, 12:58 PM   #360
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This is not my diff... my mate Robert from Frankfurt has disassembled his diff. He bought it from you. He complained about his diff is not locking at all.

The problem is that it seems one side of diff did not work at all. It was skewed.

I use the same diff (M5 E39), but I assembled it by myself with RacingDiffs 4x clutches kit and 45x45 ramps. Now it works good. But I think I would go with 6x clutch packs, need to machining 5mm from core...

Last edited by RomanK; 02-02-2020 at 02:14 PM..
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      02-09-2020, 07:54 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
This is not my diff... my mate Robert from Frankfurt has disassembled his diff. He bought it from you. He complained about his diff is not locking at all.
So rather than contacting the vendor directly, your friend had you take photos and shit up this vendor's thread? GTFO. Seriously. There is no reason to post this stuff in this thread before contacting the vendor directly so that they can make it right. If the diff wasn't locking, I'm sure that driftflo would have been happy to inspect/replace/upgrade it to make a happy customer.

You coming in and posting photos and complaining about a diff that isn't even yours is pointless, and shows your true character.
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      02-10-2020, 08:02 AM   #362
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i just surprised about using small diameter belleville spring, maybe from other type of diff. I guess this is a reason of jamming pressure plate inside because of skewing. So I posted pictures above.
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      02-22-2020, 08:19 AM   #363
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My new Giken LSD just started developing a squeak (pop?) like in this video. Happens on lift off, even in a straight line. Otherwise the diff makes no noise. Can anyone tell me if its normal?

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      02-23-2020, 08:18 PM   #364
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hey driftflo, do you know if the manual and dct e9x m3 differential housing/carrier/peanut are the same? i need to get my housing replaced and i found a manual diff for cheap. was wondering if that would work
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      02-24-2020, 06:08 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd View Post
My new Giken LSD just started developing a squeak (pop?) like in this video. Happens on lift off, even in a straight line. Otherwise the diff makes no noise. Can anyone tell me if its normal?

Bump. Anyone?
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      02-29-2020, 11:50 AM   #366
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@redd: i do not think this is the diff or anything inside it.
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      02-29-2020, 11:51 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerezblack.m3 View Post
hey driftflo, do you know if the manual and dct e9x m3 differential housing/carrier/peanut are the same? i need to get my housing replaced and i found a manual diff for cheap. was wondering if that would work
carrier, flanges, lsd core are identical.
rear cover & gearset are different!
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      02-29-2020, 06:35 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
@redd: i do not think this is the diff or anything inside it.
Thanks. Looks like I shall have to get under the car and see where the sound is coming from.
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      05-04-2020, 08:23 AM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte869h View Post
P/N 33131214068 (Qty. 2) should be all you need
If anybody needs a set of these, I have two new in box sets from dealer, please reach out to me. They were bought for E46M3 diff builds but the axle bolt pattern doesn't match the E46 axles. One set was test fitted in diff but then pulled right out with 0 mileage. $300 shipped USA.
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      08-02-2020, 04:06 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post

next up i'll change the pressure plates back to the spec-s version and leave all clutchpacks engaged and the neg. preload at 224kg.
Hey OP,

Awesome thread. Did you manage to test this OS Giken setup on your friends E46? Did it work correctly? Just wondering as I have the same diff on my car, and it has been leaps and bound above stock, but wondering if it can be improved etc.
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      08-12-2020, 12:04 PM   #371
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i did not do any further research on the osg because i did not have any hope to make it better then a standard rebuilt zf unit. so i sold it to a guy who wanted to try it anyway... never heard anything about it again.
i will stay and continue with zf and drexler based units as i came to the conclusion these are the best units out there.

after ~1.300 lsd cores i built to date, i am looking at nearly no customer complains about zf/drexler units as well (compared to much more problems and complains with all other units/brands i sold) i decided to stop offering other parts/brands to my customers.
i want to use the best hardware to create setups that perfectly fit, perform and last!
it was a long journey, but i learned a lot and i am pretty convinced now!
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      08-20-2020, 12:51 AM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
i did not do any further research on the osg because i did not have any hope to make it better then a standard rebuilt zf unit. so i sold it to a guy who wanted to try it anyway... never heard anything about it again.
i will stay and continue with zf and drexler based units as i came to the conclusion these are the best units out there.

after ~1.300 lsd cores i built to date, i am looking at nearly no customer complains about zf/drexler units as well (compared to much more problems and complains with all other units/brands i sold) i decided to stop offering other parts/brands to my customers.
i want to use the best hardware to create setups that perfectly fit, perform and last!
it was a long journey, but i learned a lot and i am pretty convinced now!
I understand. I guess if something works don't change it. I know one company in the Netherlands which works with OS-Giken units - they are differential specialists and custom set up the units for racing, but its a lot of work to learn a new mechanism and set it up properly etc.

My view of the OS-Giken is - it could be good for drifting in the dry if setup correctly and good if you have a squarer line on track (think of MAX or Vettel's driving style compared to Sainz for example in F1). I need to be really aggressive on the brakes for the diff to lockup on deceleration and wrestle the front end in the corner and I need to straighten up as quick as possible and get aggressively on the gas for it to grip out of corners, which causes oversteer on the way out - as when it locks - it LOCKS up too quick. Once you get used to it and manage that oversteer right after the apex - you know what it will do and when, and you can just keep a much tighter racing line with later braking, lower turn-in speeds, hard accel out of the bend and less ability to crash I guess. On the Out-In-Out standard racing line it just feels like an open diff on decel and has sudden locks mid-corner on tight bends. It is good on long swooping bends though - as it just doesn't lock up much if any and I don't get understeer. Its hard to get used to in the rain though. It will stay open when decelerating and then lock to 100% out of nowhere when weight transfers mid corner and I just would spin on throttle. I need to again pull off a MAX Verstappen in Brazil type of driving, where I just run as square of a line as possible so that I almost don't trail-brake, but I brake in a straight line, lift off before the apex and turning, and when I accelerate my wheels are always going forward, and then - it is good - it just puts the power down well as it locks so quick. I think it just is a 0 or a 100% diff kind of. It locks up probably 30-40% quicker than normal clutch type diffs with a preload shim instead of the springs. It does create less heat that way and if you change your driving style - it works, but if you don't like the square racing line and you don't like to straighten your line after the apex, mash the gas, force it to lock-up and then manage the oversteer on corner exit - it might not be the best option. If you like that - then it is okey. Maybe lower ramp angle on acceleration and softer neg-preload springs, so that I don't need to force it to lock-up, but once it does I can manage it by it locking up at a slower rate due to the ramp angle. In the rain it can put you in hard situations where it behaves like an open diff on decal and locks up on rotation and if you get on the gas too hard and the inside tire slips, you are still steering, lock up mid corner - you run out of steering lock in the opposite direction and spin. Maybe the 2 way Spec-S is the way to go, not the 1.5 Way so it locks up more while actually stopping. I don't know.

I know its maybe a lot to ask, but is there a trusted place you know which can build me some custom LSD friction plates with molybdenum coating in Europe? I want to try out a few things with the OEM Viscolock unit and the OS-Giken I have too.

Also is there somewhere where I can buy the stock ZF unit new, or is it just breakdowns of old M5's which were crashed for example. I like to tinker with stuff in my free time then break my car on track and start all over again... its a money-pit hobby I guess. If I manage to modify the OSG to a place where it works well I will update the thread. I will get a conventional LSD too for comparison and tinker with that too.

There is so hard to make a compromise between rebuild intervals, locking operation and locking potential. Conventional diffs with a preload shim start to slip within 25k km sometimes. OSG and CUSCO's with springs and lower preloads on the other hand behave differently and can catch you out unprepared. There is no Win/Win/Win

Last edited by ANLV; 08-20-2020 at 02:57 AM..
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      08-26-2020, 04:02 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
I understand. I guess if something works don't change it.
well, i often changed diffs that did work... and i was able to further improve some of them. but if i tend to think there is no chance to make a certain product better then other units that i already built i stop wasting time and money on them!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
I know one company in the Netherlands which works with OS-Giken units - they are differential specialists and custom set up the units for racing, but its a lot of work to learn a new mechanism and set it up properly etc.
they are friends of me and i discussed with them a lot. they made other experience with the osg indeed. it is absolutely ok for me if someone has a different experience or opinion about a certain product.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
... and custom set up the units for racing, but its a lot of work to learn a new mechanism and set it up properly etc.
well, this requires the availability of the required parts (ramp sets). osg did offer me 2 (in words: two) for the m3 diff. i have +30 different ramps plus various clutch options for the drexler/zf stuff.
one of the reasons i quit researching the osg stuff... not enough setup parts / options available to build real custom setups!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
My view of the OS-Giken is - it could be good for drifting in the dry if setup correctly and good if you have a squarer line on track (think of MAX or Vettel's driving style compared to Sainz for example in F1). I need to be really aggressive on the brakes for the diff to lockup on deceleration and wrestle the front end in the corner and I need to straighten up as quick as possible and get aggressively on the gas for it to grip out of corners, which causes oversteer on the way out - as when it locks - it LOCKS up too quick. Once you get used to it and manage that oversteer right after the apex - you know what it will do and when, and you can just keep a much tighter racing line with later braking, lower turn-in speeds, hard accel out of the bend and less ability to crash I guess. On the Out-In-Out standard racing line it just feels like an open diff on decel and has sudden locks mid-corner on tight bends. It is good on long swooping bends though - as it just doesn't lock up much if any and I don't get understeer. Its hard to get used to in the rain though. It will stay open when decelerating and then lock to 100% out of nowhere when weight transfers mid corner and I just would spin on throttle. I need to again pull off a MAX Verstappen in Brazil type of driving, where I just run as square of a line as possible so that I almost don't trail-brake, but I brake in a straight line, lift off before the apex and turning, and when I accelerate my wheels are always going forward, and then - it is good - it just puts the power down well as it locks so quick. I think it just is a 0 or a 100% diff kind of. It locks up probably 30-40% quicker than normal clutch type diffs with a preload shim instead of the springs. It does create less heat that way and if you change your driving style - it works, but if you don't like the square racing line and you don't like to straighten your line after the apex, mash the gas, force it to lock-up and then manage the oversteer on corner exit - it might not be the best option. If you like that - then it is okey. Maybe lower ramp angle on acceleration and softer neg-preload springs, so that I don't need to force it to lock-up, but once it does I can manage it by it locking up at a slower rate due to the ramp angle. In the rain it can put you in hard situations where it behaves like an open diff on decal and locks up on rotation and if you get on the gas too hard and the inside tire slips, you are still steering, lock up mid corner - you run out of steering lock in the opposite direction and spin. Maybe the 2 way Spec-S is the way to go, not the 1.5 Way so it locks up more while actually stopping. I don't know.
i prefer to adapt the lsd to what the drivers wants instead of tell the customer how he has to drive to fit the lsd's requirements.
plus: a square driving style is surely not what a s65 requires to go fast. with the known lack of torque you need to drive it really smooth and careful.

i have a shifter kart and a rotax. the s65 is the rotax ;-)



Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
I know its maybe a lot to ask, but is there a trusted place you know which can build me some custom LSD friction plates with molybdenum coating in Europe? I want to try out a few things with the OEM Viscolock unit and the OS-Giken I have too.
sure there is! what budget do you want to spend?
if you want molys from a "trusted place" (=supplier of drexler, ricardo, gkn, ...) you will need to spend a bit of money.
there are also cheap manufacturers... but this is a waste of money.

i have brandnew moly viscolok clutches available in stock. i'd be happy to sell them to someone.
why do you want to put molys in a osg? if you do a zf/drexler replica for even more money then the original ones... what would be the benefit? i am sure if you rebuild a osg unit to drexler spec concercing ramps and clutchmaterial it will perform like a drexler (as long as no other parts will fail). but this can be had easier!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
Also is there somewhere where I can buy the stock ZF unit new, or is it just breakdowns of old M5's which were crashed for example. I like to tinker with stuff in my free time then break my car on track and start all over again... its a money-pit hobby I guess.
sure, i have some brandnew ZF units in stock.
i bought the final ZF LSD parts stock (~60k pieces) last year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
If I manage to modify the OSG to a place where it works well I will update the thread. I will get a conventional LSD too for comparison and tinker with that too.
go ahead!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANLV View Post
There is so hard to make a compromise between rebuild intervals, locking operation and locking potential. Conventional diffs with a preload shim start to slip within 25k km sometimes. OSG and CUSCO's with springs and lower preloads on the other hand behave differently and can catch you out unprepared. There is no Win/Win/Win
well, imho there is a win/win/win: drexler with a setup that will fit the drivers and cars requirements. it will definitely not start to slip at 25k km... but will perform +100k km on a very high level! and as a lower budget alternative: ZF based lsd core with drexler clutches. this will also work for way beyond 25k km.
osg & cusco are not on the same level to a drexler by far. these are totally different products. both not used in OEM or professional (factory) motorsports applications... for good reasons.
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      01-30-2021, 10:31 AM   #374
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Does anyone know if putting 4.10 gears into the E92 M3 case required conversion of pinion bearings to the E46 setup? Is case modification required?

Or can we use the factory ball bearing type inner and outer pinion bearings with the 4.10 pinion?
Uses the factory ball bearings. I just did this a couple weeks sgo!
How did you set preload? Shops around here are very afraid of these ball bearing pinion setups. Please share if you can.

Than you,
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