BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wash, Wax, Detail, Cosmetic Maintenance & Repairs
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-04-2018, 10:38 AM   #1
MrGatsby
Second Lieutenant
321
Rep
204
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: M town

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 E92 M3  [0.00]
How to protect my paint?

Recently I picked up a Jerez Black E92 as my daily, and as such, garage space is limited and reserved for my other vehicles.

I am looking for a way to protect this beautiful color from the elements. Typically I'll wake up to water spots, pollen, and dirt.

Are there any recommended products that will protect the paint and make it easy to quickly wipe down prior to work without scratching the clear?

I was considering a paint correction + ceramic coating, however my concern is investing all the time and money into it, then wearing it down rather quickly due to the daily commute and lack of garage space.


Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2018, 01:07 PM   #2
Qgarage
Enlisted Member
66
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

If you want to go all out and have the best protection it would be a clear bra, but that gets expensive.

Coatings are great, but they are not scratch proof, it's more of a sacrificial layer and once it wears down you would have to recorrect and redo. It does not protect from rock chips though.

If it's a DD maybe consider protective film on the hood, bumper, roof, and mirrors and then paint correction/coating on the rest of the car.
Appreciate 1
      12-20-2018, 02:33 PM   #3
rjd598
Major General
rjd598's Avatar
United_States
1481
Rep
6,581
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
a proper coating should be able to hold up to elements even if your car is not garaged. topping it with a coating topper every few months is also a very easy to make sure your coating doesn't degrade. protective film is not going to help you with dirt.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2018, 05:57 PM   #4
SoManyBlueCars
Major
SoManyBlueCars's Avatar
United_States
1696
Rep
1,420
Posts

Drives: 2015 335i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2011 E92 M3 - Interlagos Blue - Sold
2014 F30 328i xDrive - Estoril Blue - Retired
2015 F30 335i xDrive, MPPK - Glacier Silver

@MachinesWithSouls
Appreciate 1
      12-22-2018, 06:27 PM   #5
wfdeacon88
Major
1004
Rep
1,376
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Triad, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
just googled this.. interesting. Does it require a paint correction prior?
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2018, 07:42 PM   #6
SoManyBlueCars
Major
SoManyBlueCars's Avatar
United_States
1696
Rep
1,420
Posts

Drives: 2015 335i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
just googled this.. interesting. Does it require a paint correction prior?
That's a complex question, but in short, no, unless you think the car really needs it.

If you're going to apply it yourself, I'd wash the car with dish soap and Foam to strip any previous waxes away. If it needs a clay bar, nows the time. Afterwords, apply Reflex, then Skin, and top it all off with creme is you really want a wet look.

Once you've done this, washes afterwords will be a breeze. I apply Reflex once a year and skin about once every other month. But really you can just wash the car and dry it with Hydrate and you'll be good. Takes a half hour tops.
__________________
2011 E92 M3 - Interlagos Blue - Sold
2014 F30 328i xDrive - Estoril Blue - Retired
2015 F30 335i xDrive, MPPK - Glacier Silver

@MachinesWithSouls
Appreciate 1
wfdeacon881004.00

      12-26-2018, 04:59 PM   #7
SoCalRPM
Captain
SoCalRPM's Avatar
504
Rep
770
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

OP what's your level of interest and involvement to do the work yourself? Can you use/do you have a machine polisher to polish and wax your own car? If so, I'd just adopt a regular routine to layer protection like sealants and waxes. AMMO NYC is a good resource but also check out Pan The Organizer and Obsessed Garage on YouTube for lots of How To videos in correcting and protecting your car's paint.

If you want to just pay someone to get it over with, just find a good local detailer to periodically (once every 6months preferably) polish and protect your car. It'll still be up to you to make sure it gets regular maintenance washes that use PH neutral soaps so as not to strip your protection.

You can also look into having a detailer apply a ceramic coating like CarPro CQuartz or similar. Coatings have their pros and cons but it's top notch protection.

If you can swing the money, get a clear bra installed on the car - something like XPEL. This is the most pricey option but likely worth it for the best protection on the car.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2019, 08:00 AM   #8
shimmy23
e90 daddymobile
shimmy23's Avatar
1250
Rep
2,436
Posts

Drives: e90 IB M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
That is the first I have heard of ceramic coatings have a negative impact on your paint
__________________
-brandon

e90 IB journal

Appreciate 0
      03-23-2019, 08:10 AM   #9
SoManyBlueCars
Major
SoManyBlueCars's Avatar
United_States
1696
Rep
1,420
Posts

Drives: 2015 335i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
That is the first I have heard of ceramic coatings have a negative impact on your paint
The science behind it is simply that metal, and by extension paint, is flexible. They expand with temperature change. Ceramic coatings are stiff and adhere to the paint, making the paint lose some of its flexibility, and causing it to crack. They also don't last nearly as long as stated.

It's all from Larry on AMMO NYC, if you'd like to see him explain it.
__________________
2011 E92 M3 - Interlagos Blue - Sold
2014 F30 328i xDrive - Estoril Blue - Retired
2015 F30 335i xDrive, MPPK - Glacier Silver

@MachinesWithSouls
Appreciate 1
      03-23-2019, 06:38 PM   #10
SoCalRPM
Captain
SoCalRPM's Avatar
504
Rep
770
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
That is the first I have heard of ceramic coatings have a negative impact on your paint
The science behind it is simply that metal, and by extension paint, is flexible. They expand with temperature change. Ceramic coatings are stiff and adhere to the paint, making the paint lose some of its flexibility, and causing it to crack. They also don't last nearly as long as stated.

It's all from Larry on AMMO NYC, if you'd like to see him explain it.
While I agree with this and it is largely true, the real world translation is negligible. Ceramic is very similar to your existing clear coat. There will inevitably be debate about the best paint protection but you should be okay with a ceramic.

I've had ceramic on my car for about 1.5 years with no issues but it's largely garage kept and not driven much in bad weather.

I believe ceramic isn't necessarily ideal if you're parking outside as water spotting can be more of an issue - but nonetheless no protection will prevent your car from getting water spots if you leave it outside and it's not completely wrapped with a Paint Protection Film like Xpel or Suntec.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #11
dparm
World's greatest HPDE driver
dparm's Avatar
United_States
2458
Rep
7,528
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (1)

If ceramic coatings caused paint to crack, there is no way these companies would stay in business.

This sounds like something a competitor dreamt up to steer people to their own products.

Advertisement: "Coke causes cancer!"
Consumer: "Oh shoot, I guess I'd better trust that ad and drink Pepsi instead."
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 1
admranger1271.00

      03-24-2019, 09:46 PM   #12
admranger
Curmudgeon
admranger's Avatar
United_States
1271
Rep
2,777
Posts

Drives: 19 X3M40i, 18 330 x-drive GT
Join Date: May 2011
Location: LV, NV and Santa Fe, NM

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
If ceramic coatings caused paint to crack, there is no way these companies would stay in business.

This sounds like something a competitor dreamt up to steer people to their own products.

Advertisement: "Coke causes cancer!"
Consumer: "Oh shoot, I guess I'd better trust that ad and drink Pepsi instead."
I'd love to see the technical paper on AMMO's claim. Not because I don't believe it (I don't), but because nothing gets me all hot and bothered like a good technical paper involving chemistry, thermal expansion coefficients, etc. Whew-I need a cold shower after just typing that all in!
__________________

'19 X3 M40 Carbon Black/Oyster
'18 330i xDrive GT Mineral White/Black
Appreciate 2
SoCalRPM504.00
pcohen15366.50

      03-26-2019, 05:32 PM   #13
SoCalRPM
Captain
SoCalRPM's Avatar
504
Rep
770
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
If ceramic coatings caused paint to crack, there is no way these companies would stay in business.

This sounds like something a competitor dreamt up to steer people to their own products.

Advertisement: "Coke causes cancer!"
Consumer: "Oh shoot, I guess I'd better trust that ad and drink Pepsi instead."
I'd love to see the technical paper on AMMO's claim. Not because I don't believe it (I don't), but because nothing gets me all hot and bothered like a good technical paper involving chemistry, thermal expansion coefficients, etc. Whew-I need a cold shower after just typing that all in!
I haven't looked into this myself yet, but I've seen plenty of Larry's videos. Of all the detailers out there, I'd sure bet that he's the brightest and most scientific about paint protection - FWIW
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2019, 05:47 PM   #14
BayE30
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1267
Rep
1,881
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
If ceramic coatings caused paint to crack, there is no way these companies would stay in business.

This sounds like something a competitor dreamt up to steer people to their own products.

Advertisement: "Coke causes cancer!"
Consumer: "Oh shoot, I guess I'd better trust that ad and drink Pepsi instead."
Its a little early in the life of ceramic coatings to know whats what. My biggest question that nobody can answer is: If the ceramic coat forms a glass like layer(it dries into hard crystals), once it starts to degrade and flake off, how do you remove it properly without fucking up the paint? Nobody can answer this for me because the product hasnt been around long enough. The only answer i have gotten is that it needs to be polished off, and the whole process repeated including paint correction...
__________________
I am never able to post pictures on forums, all my pics are on IG @baye30 https://www.instagram.com/baye30/
Current Garage - [2011 E90 M3 ZCP] [2005 E53 X5 3.0 Sport] [1988 E30 325IS 24V]
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2019, 02:39 PM   #15
Ngilbe36
Lieutenant
Ngilbe36's Avatar
United_States
552
Rep
542
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 IB
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
I'd love to see the technical paper on AMMO's claim. Not because I don't believe it (I don't), but because nothing gets me all hot and bothered like a good technical paper involving chemistry, thermal expansion coefficients, etc. Whew-I need a cold shower after just typing that all in!
AMMO has their own ceramic coating, so I am not sure why they would be claiming it causes issues. The owner, Larry, is a super nice guy and you could even email him to ask and expect a response.
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2019, 06:48 PM   #16
SoCalRPM
Captain
SoCalRPM's Avatar
504
Rep
770
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
If ceramic coatings caused paint to crack, there is no way these companies would stay in business.

This sounds like something a competitor dreamt up to steer people to their own products.

Advertisement: "Coke causes cancer!"
Consumer: "Oh shoot, I guess I'd better trust that ad and drink Pepsi instead."
Its a little early in the life of ceramic coatings to know whats what. My biggest question that nobody can answer is: If the ceramic coat forms a glass like layer(it dries into hard crystals), once it starts to degrade and flake off, how do you remove it properly without fucking up the paint? Nobody can answer this for me because the product hasnt been around long enough. The only answer i have gotten is that it needs to be polished off, and the whole process repeated including paint correction...
This is my experience with ceramic, too. I've got a cosmetic repair I'd like to polish out, paired with removing a clear bra from half the hood - all of which will leave uneven ceramic coverage. I've looked into what I can do about it but the only answer I've found is that, yes - the ceramic will have to be compounded or polished to be removed and then those sections need to start from scratch.

I love the protection ceramic offers but it comes with complications. Just depends on how involved people want to be or if they're cool with sending it to a detailer from time to time. I'm used to plodding my own cars and then removing when it's time to start over. But with ceramic, I feel stuck in the sidelines.
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2019, 10:37 PM   #17
admranger
Curmudgeon
admranger's Avatar
United_States
1271
Rep
2,777
Posts

Drives: 19 X3M40i, 18 330 x-drive GT
Join Date: May 2011
Location: LV, NV and Santa Fe, NM

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Its a little early in the life of ceramic coatings to know whats what. My biggest question that nobody can answer is: If the ceramic coat forms a glass like layer(it dries into hard crystals), once it starts to degrade and flake off, how do you remove it properly without fucking up the paint? Nobody can answer this for me because the product hasnt been around long enough. The only answer i have gotten is that it needs to be polished off, and the whole process repeated including paint correction...
Mild polish will take it off. Easy peasy. BTDT. It's not like you're not going to polish before you put any sealant or wax on unless you like highlighting the scratches. Ceramic coating is nice in that you only have to do this once every 18-24 months instead of every 6 months.
__________________

'19 X3 M40 Carbon Black/Oyster
'18 330i xDrive GT Mineral White/Black

Last edited by admranger; 04-05-2019 at 01:07 PM..
Appreciate 1
      03-28-2019, 09:17 AM   #18
Ngilbe36
Lieutenant
Ngilbe36's Avatar
United_States
552
Rep
542
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 IB
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Its a little early in the life of ceramic coatings to know whats what. My biggest question that nobody can answer is: If the ceramic coat forms a glass like layer(it dries into hard crystals), once it starts to degrade and flake off, how do you remove it properly without fucking up the paint? Nobody can answer this for me because the product hasnt been around long enough. The only answer i have gotten is that it needs to be polished off, and the whole process repeated including paint correction...
Here is my process.
- Car comes out of hibernation (LAST WEEKEND!!!)
- Wash with non-wax soap
- Decontaminate (Iron-X or similar)
- Clay Bar
- Light Compound
- Ceramic coat
- Sealant
Enjoy

I will wash pretty much weekly and use some sort of drying aid spray (AMMO Hydrate) from April to October and apply a new coat of sealant in ~Julyish.

I am no pro, but this is what I do.

You make a great point though in the fact that removing the ceramic is difficult. To my knowledge the only way to remove is to compound off, a light polish won't do it or will take forever. There may be some chemical way to remove it, but I would be concerned about damaging paint or trim with something that strong. The real tricky bit is that even when you are "removing" the coating with compound, you don't know when you are done. I just try to be consistent and make sure that the I do the car evenly.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2019, 07:11 PM   #19
rjd598
Major General
rjd598's Avatar
United_States
1481
Rep
6,581
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ngilbe36 View Post
Here is my process.
- Car comes out of hibernation (LAST WEEKEND!!!)
- Wash with non-wax soap
- Decontaminate (Iron-X or similar)
- Clay Bar
- Light Compound
- Ceramic coat
- Sealant
Enjoy

I will wash pretty much weekly and use some sort of drying aid spray (AMMO Hydrate) from April to October and apply a new coat of sealant in ~Julyish.

I am no pro, but this is what I do.

You make a great point though in the fact that removing the ceramic is difficult. To my knowledge the only way to remove is to compound off, a light polish won't do it or will take forever. There may be some chemical way to remove it, but I would be concerned about damaging paint or trim with something that strong. The real tricky bit is that even when you are "removing" the coating with compound, you don't know when you are done. I just try to be consistent and make sure that the I do the car evenly.
don't waste your time with a sealant after a coating
Appreciate 1
      04-03-2019, 07:24 PM   #20
///M Power-Belgium
Lieutenant General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
20807
Rep
12,175
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
don't waste your time with a sealant after a coating
For the moment I only use Wolfgang . Great stuff => https://www.wolfgangcarcare.com/productline.html
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2019, 09:35 PM   #21
Ngilbe36
Lieutenant
Ngilbe36's Avatar
United_States
552
Rep
542
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 IB
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post

For the moment I only use Wolfgang . Great stuff => https://www.wolfgangcarcare.com/productline.html
The gloss sealant? That is some of my favorite stuff. It is so easy to apply and leaves a great finish.
Appreciate 1
      04-04-2019, 12:53 AM   #22
pcohen15
Lieutenant
pcohen15's Avatar
367
Rep
540
Posts

Drives: 2013 F10 M5, Singapore Gray
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Look up the AMMO NYC regiment. I've used it for years and it works incredibly well. Ceramic coatings don't allow the paint to flex like it should and can cause damage down the road.

Car is almost 9 years old.
Love this image. I follow you on IG and am so jealous of all the great environments in which you can create images.
__________________
1972 Bavaria> 1973 3.0Si> 2013 328i> 2009 E92 M3> 2013 F10 M5: Singapore Gray over Sakhir Orange, Executive, Driving Assistance, B&O
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST