AK Motorsports Gallardo front calipers on M3?

[Rat3d ///M]

https://www.akmotorsport.net/shop/bi...0-mm-oem-disc/

Anyone ever seen this setup? A local guy here has Gallardo calipers on the front and Porsche front Brembos on the rear of his E92 M3. I was always wondering where he got his setup, and I think I may have found where he got the front at least. For just under 1000 EUR, it seems like a great front setup.

Question is, has anyone ever used these or seen them, and what are the options for a pre-fabricated Porsche setup on the rear (i.e. brackets already made). I know they have brackets for the E46, but never seen them for the E9x. The guy who has this setup tracks his car (a lot) and says the stopping power is phenomenal. For around $1200 for a front 8 piston Brembo setup? Sounds like a win to me.

Before anyone starts talking about brake bias, and messing up the car by using braking components not designed for it, please refrain from posting unless you are going to state factual information you can back up with numbers and stats. I would like to keep this thread on topic.

[roastbeef]

i don't dig it-
it says "specifically matched" but it was designed for another car. so it will fit, but was never intended for this application. with that in mind, you sort of have to assume they did the proper due diligence in researching brake torque, piston surface area, etc... i know you said not to post about this, but it is absolutely relevant.

larger caliper on the oem rotor- no thanks. the rotor's ability to dissipate heat is just as important (maybe even more important) than the caliper. i think with the enlarged pad size (lets pretend it is double) is just going to put more heat into the rotors and overwhelm them sooner. these oem rotors can't get rid of the heat well enough to run that large of a pad.

they are probably fine for the street, but if you plan on tracking them, i would speculate this is a very bad idea.

[fellationship]

I am really underwhelmed with stock brakes and feel this is a weak point for my M.
These seem like a great upgrade for overall street driving.

Does anyone know how the brackets allow the caliper to be matched to original mount points?

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i don't dig it-
it says "specifically matched" but it was designed for another car. so it will fit, but was never intended for this application. with that in mind, you sort of have to assume they did the proper due diligence in researching brake torque, piston surface area, etc... i know you said not to post about this, but it is absolutely relevant.

larger caliper on the oem rotor- no thanks. the rotor's ability to dissipate heat is just as important (maybe even more important) than the caliper. i think with the enlarged pad size (lets pretend it is double) is just going to put more heat into the rotors and overwhelm them sooner. these oem rotors can't get rid of the heat well enough to run that large of a pad.

they are probably fine for the street, but if you plan on tracking them, i would speculate this is a very bad idea.

I believe (though I could be wrong) that the front rotors of the Gallardo are around the same size as our fronts (roughly 360mm). Do you know what it is about the OEM rotors that don't allow them to dissipate heat well enough to run a caliper like this?

[fellationship]

The R8 rotors are 365mm. +5mm over the standard M size.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

I believe (though I could be wrong) that the front rotors of the Gallardo are around the same size as our fronts (roughly 360mm). Do you know what it is about the OEM rotors that don't allow them to dissipate heat well enough to run a caliper like this?

i'm definitely not an expert, but i read a ton of info when i was recently deciding on a bbk for my car.

even if the gallardo's rotors are the same size, the volume of the pistons and fluid capacity is most likely very different. this could change pedal feel and the way the brake mc pushes fluid. my initial though is also that if the larger calipers take more fluid and the rear calipers stay the same, you might be changing the brake bias not by stopping power, but by the path the brake fluid travels to the front/rear calipers.

i know the oem rotors have a lower cooling vane count than bbk's, some have aluminum hats. not sure what oem is, but it is bulky and that likely contributes to them holding in heat.

http://www.essexparts.com/shop/compl...m3-bundle.html

there is more tech in that link than i care to type, but scroll down and it breaks down why their kit works so well. i know, i know, they are trying to sell you something. just read it and it will all make sense- these guys know what they are talking about. you can still take tech and discussion for what its worth where they break down the oem caliper/rotor and compare it to theirs. then compare it to just replacing a caliper not designed for our cars... i don't think you'll go for it.

running a caliper that doubles pad contact on oem rotors then going to the track makes me cringe.

lots more tech/discussion in this thread.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=921567

i have since purchased this kit and it is top notch. again, whether you want this specific kit or not, you can get a good idea of things you (and I) probably don't think about when thinking of brakes.

this kit is 5mm smaller in diameter than oem rotors, yet worlds above in terms of performance.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i don't dig it-
it says "specifically matched" but it was designed for another car. so it will fit, but was never intended for this application. with that in mind, you sort of have to assume they did the proper due diligence in researching brake torque, piston surface area, etc... i know you said not to post about this, but it is absolutely relevant.

larger caliper on the oem rotor- no thanks. the rotor's ability to dissipate heat is just as important (maybe even more important) than the caliper. i think with the enlarged pad size (lets pretend it is double) is just going to put more heat into the rotors and overwhelm them sooner. these oem rotors can't get rid of the heat well enough to run that large of a pad.

they are probably fine for the street, but if you plan on tracking them, i would speculate this is a very bad idea.

Why would you speculate that when the guy who is doing it tracks his car a lot and says it works great?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Why would you speculate that when the guy who is doing it tracks his car a lot and says it works great?

No idea. Depends on his setup, but putting more pads on the oem rotor isn't the answer.

[GRUESOM3]

I love those calipers, always wanted those coupled with this style rotor

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDI-LAMBORG...0056f7&vxp=mtr


braking bias will only be affected if the rear is not upgraded, I would look into the piston sizes of the fronts and see how they compare to stock pistons as far as volume goes to avoid too much pedal travel

the rotors that are used with these calipers are 365x34 where our calipers are 360x30 so I don't see how our rotors could be that much inferior to those and not do good with heat, that 4mm could be in the design difference and not the actual thickness of front and rear of rotor disk.

For that money I think that's a steal as long as the rear could be upgraded accordingly

[roastbeef]

Again, rotor diameter isn't as important as how efficient the rotor is at getting rid of heat.

[dj_dub]

Thanks for sharing this! ...this interests me and would also love to see more information as well.

[Rat3d ///M]

I emailed the company asking if they had any options for rear setups, and asked if they would be interested in making a Porsche 996 bracket for the back. I quickly got a response saying they should have an option for the rear within a week, and they would send me info/pics when they have it. I am skeptical, because I doubt they are throwing something together just because I emailed them, and would expect more than a week of R&D/Fabricating to make a product, but who knows? Maybe they already had something in the works and I just happened to email them.

Either way, I would be interested in calculating the OEM brake bias, and then calculating the potential bias with these Gallarado calipers and Porsche 996 calipers on the rear, but I will need to do some more research on specs before I can do so, unless someone is bored and wants a homework assignment?

[GRUESOM3]

Good to know they are making a rear kit, I think any 4 piston rear caliper should do just fine/better then stock rear

I wonder if they are willing to sell just the caliper adapters front and rear?
Also I think for the front if your worried about heat, you can always upgrade to ecs 2 piece front rotors later on.

[Rat3d ///M]

Alright guys, got an email from Akmotorsports today. Here is what it said..

Originally Posted by AKMotorsports

Hello,

We have just finished a rear brake set for your customer for his M3 E92.


It is now possible to offer front and rear big brake kit.

Front set (works with OEM M3 E92 front 360 mm disc)
- specially matched genuine Brembo 8 pot calipers painted on the color of customer choice (remanufactured).
- S355 steel adapters (silver galvanized)
- set of 12.9 screws for mounting carriers and calipers (galvanized)
- stainless steel HEL brake lines
- Hawk Performance HPS 5.0 pads included

Rear set (works with OEM M3 E92 rear 350 mm disc)
- Aluminium 7075 silver anodized adapters
- 10.9 grade screws
- genuine Brembo 4 pot calipers (remanufactured). Painted in Red or other colors on request.
- HEL brake lines
- Ferodo DS pads

Attaching picture of the rear.


Total (front and rear) 2195 euro + 24 euro shipping to Nederlands.

Lead time is 5 work days.

If you would have any questions please let us know.

Best regards,

Albert

Not sure what the rear calipers are from, but they are 4 piston Brembos similar to the Porsche calipers. So for €2195 plus shipping (about $2494) you can have an 8 piston / 4 piston Brembo setup. Sounds pretty good to me.

If anyone is interested, I will find out about a Group Buy price. If this is real life, I am highly, highly interested in this. $2500 for a Brembo BBK seems unreal to me. Anyone care to be the guinea pig and place an order and let us know how it turns out? I'd love to see how these do on the track

[GRUESOM3]

Since your already in talks with the guy.

Ask what size pistons are in those rear calipers and ask if he would sell the caliper adapters by themselves?

They look like Porsche 996 brembos, piston size would reveal front or rear.


The rest of the stuff could be bought elsewhere there's still room for savings here. 2500$ is still a lot for junk calipers with new seals and some shiny paint. The adapters is the real worth here and if he will share part numbers of rear calipers.

[OneSickM]

Originally Posted by GRUESOM3

Since your already in talks with the guy.

Ask what size pistons are in those rear calipers and ask if he would sell the caliper adapters by themselves?

They look like Porsche 996 brembos, piston size would reveal front or rear.


The rest of the stuff could be bought elsewhere there's still room for savings here. 2500$ is still a lot for junk calipers with new seals and some shiny paint. The adapters is the real worth here and if he will share part numbers of rear calipers.

+1 I agree with this guy

[azndrunk74]

sub'd for more info. i had a similar setup on my e46 m3 with porsche calipers and ZCP rotors. i'm hoping someone can do the math to calculate the brake bias with this setup

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by GRUESOM3

Since your already in talks with the guy.

Ask what size pistons are in those rear calipers and ask if he would sell the caliper adapters by themselves?

They look like Porsche 996 brembos, piston size would reveal front or rear.


The rest of the stuff could be bought elsewhere there's still room for savings here. 2500$ is still a lot for junk calipers with new seals and some shiny paint. The adapters is the real worth here and if he will share part numbers of rear calipers.

I sent him an email with a few more questions. As soon as I hear back, I will post up here.

I agree, $2500.00 is still a lot for some rebuilt OEM calipers, but keep in mind, that includes everything. The 1000 euros on the website is for fronts, MINUS the pads. The 2100 euros in the email quote is including 6 sets of pads (4 for the front, 2 for the rear), calipers, mounting hardware, brackets, brake lines, i.e. everything needed for install, minus rotors if you chose to upgrade those as well.

Considering it's a complete kit and a new aftermarket Brembo setup for our cars is upwards of $7000.00, this kit seems very reasonable. I would just question how well it will work (or won't, whatever the case may be) and I don't want to be the first to find out.

[redpriest]

This sounds like "too good to be true"

[dj_dub]

I hope it's not too good to be true...the price for a complete set makes me very interested.

[Honda]

Originally Posted by dj_dub

I hope it's not too good to be true...the price for a complete set makes me very interested.

Exactly my thoughts!!!

One question, would they offer 6 piston version for front? I would be more interested if they offer it for cheaper price

[Rat3d ///M]

I got an email from the company. This should answer a few questions:

Q. Will they sell the brackets separately?

We put a lot of effort to the kit and we don't sell the adapters alone.

Q. What size pistons are in the rear calipers?

The size of the pistons is 28 mm and 30 mm.

Q. What are the rear calipers from?

It is Porsche (Brembo) 4 pot caliper.

I guess I will take their word for it, but I have never seen Porsche Brembos like that. They are definitely not from the 996 TT.

Originally Posted by S65-M3

Exactly my thoughts!!!

One question, would they offer 6 piston version for front? I would be more interested if they offer it for cheaper price

I haven't asked that question, but I will see what I can find out.

Now that we know the specs of the rear calipers, anyone care to do some research to find out the specs for the fronts, and calculate brake bias? I searched, but couldn't find piston size for OEM Gallardo calipers.