IS-F Tune Released

[PizzaHut]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Both my fbo e92 m3 dcb put acouple bus lengths on roll races on an isf so I'm glad they are finally catching up. From a roll a stock e92 m3 pulled on the thing so it's torque only offers an advantage in higher gears at low revs like around town if you are unwilling to downshift.

Your FBO E92 M3 pulled a couple bus lengths on a stock ISF from a roll right? And are you sure it was an ISF and not an IS350 F-Sport?

I'm only asking because stock vs. stock, the E9x M3 and ISF are as close to a drivers race as could be. Usually in publication tests, the ISF has a bit of an advantage (1-2 mph) in trap speeds, showing it has bit better top end when roll racing.

Also stop picking on stock ISF's with your modded M3, you just probably haven't encountered a bolt on ISF yet..

Because a full interior ISF with bolt ons and drag radials has gone 11.8x @ 121MPH. I might be wrong I don't think an FBO E9x has trapped that fast... And remember, those ISF times are without a tune. The tune has already shown gains of +50WHP on the shop car, they will be verified with owners once flash tunes are released to the public starting next week.


Here is what a Header/Exhaust/Drag Radial ISF can do..

[FFM]

Holy shit Ross got posted on the M forums. Passing along the message lol.

[davcrz5]

Hey Dan37t here another example of I/H/E ISF VS C7 the first race bad launch by C7 if you look at times not bad race for ISF

[E46M3forRay]

Originally Posted by FFM

Holy shit Ross got posted on the M forums. Passing along the message lol.

it's a trap

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Dan37Tz

I respect your opinion but I would have to disagree completely, while the regular IS250/350 is a handsome car, it has always looked a bit stubby in my eyes.

To me, the ISF just looks better proportioned and much more muscular. Here is an ISF from the same angle of your X Package IS350. I don't see any of the "Pep Boys" special flaring that you speak of.

I beg to differ. The flaring of the sideskirt and front fender and the vent is very apparent. It sticks out. The regular IS does not.

Also, as I mentioned the front bumper and hood of the IS-F is very "chubby" vs the chiseled and more angular lines on the regular IS. I see it as a styling fail. Taking a very nice car and making it ugly.

I had high hopes for the ISF when they announced it but lack of manual transmission and the styling issues ruined it for me. The new RCF is even uglier - Lexus is definitely moving in the wrong direction in terms of style. Their heyday was in the 90s when they made great cars.

You like your car and that is fine. As long as you enjoy it is what is important.

[8600RPM]

I don't buy any tune is releasing 40 to 50hp. Again it's still a naturally aspirated car with a 7k redline. As with any engine it's power is dictated by displacement and revs. At 7k rpm limit, a 5 liter engine puts out around 400 to 430 bhp . Just like 5.0 mustsng. Without changing compression ratio or revs and breathing, you can't make a ton of power on a NA performance engine.

Amg 6.3 litre engines were drastically detuned for c63 during that generation which is why a tune unleashed the power normally associated with 6 liters of displacement .

So not seeing this isf tune doing much. Although it does open door to superchargers

[FFM]

Uhhh it's already proven. The speculation no longer exists. They did a before and after dyno, and all the data is openly disclosed

I mean I get it from our standpoint the M cars don't yield much gains from a tune NA. But they are also pretty high strung from the factory.

The ISF ECU has the ability to comp for nitrous stock lol. Clearly the system has a shit ton of room to be fine tuned. Also have to consider the market, they obviously have to tune from the factory to account that your average Lexus owner, even an F, is likely to put in low grade fuel.

[8600RPM]

It's no defying laws of physics. 5 litres cam only produce so much with a redline of 7k. One dyno hardly proves anything

[FFM]

True, bout 50 more to come based on how many people sent in their ECU's.

But from a vendor standpoint, when you are one of the ONLY people offering tunes and there's ZERO competition do you as a reputable company have any reason to jeopardize your reputation with inflated or fabricated figures? 10whp gain would have likely still sold tunes. Like mentioned though, the prospect of forced induction is huge alone.

Just playing devils advocate here. Then again everyone on this board discredited TTFS and is now a sponsor clearly we have been wrong in the past :P

Edit: just remembered that was on m3forums, same community though haha.

[8600RPM]

It's just using common sense and a little bit of basic engine understanding. I'm sure dynos will roll in. I'd venture perhaps the isf can squeeze a but more aggressive timing advance due to direct injection and port injection but on pump gas you won't see more than 20 hp off a tune.

[all4bspinnin]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

It's just using common sense and a little bit of basic engine understanding. I'm sure dynos will roll in. I'd venture perhaps the isf can squeeze a but more aggressive timing advance due to direct injection and port injection but on pump gas you won't see more than 20 hp off a tune.

Not necessarily true here. I've watched bolt on LSx powered vehicles gain 30whp from a tune. That's without the use of variable valve timing, direct injection, etc. It all depends on how restricted the engine is, how much can be done by altering the cam tables... I could easily see this engine picking up 30+ with a retune.

[davcrz5]

Latest update regarding the tune they have increased the RPM from 6800 to two choices 7200 rpm or 7400rpm. This comes into play for those who like to drag race or if you're going down the back straight of a racetrack and you run out rpm

Next up request for speed limiter to be removed. This was done a few years ago by HKS in Japan for JDM ISF, stock ISF hit 186mph.

[u2b]

[/u2b]

[all4bspinnin]

Excellent work! Keep it up!

[8600RPM]

Considering power drops quickly after 6500 I don't see any benefit to 7200 or higher

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

It's just using common sense and a little bit of basic engine understanding. I'm sure dynos will roll in. I'd venture perhaps the isf can squeeze a but more aggressive timing advance due to direct injection and port injection but on pump gas you won't see more than 20 hp off a tune.

on average c63 amg w204 body v8 pick up 50whp on tune alone.

[8600RPM]

Right it's a detuned 6.3 litre

[FFM]

So why would you expect Toyota, the most appliance car company alive, to not horribly detune the 5.0 in the ISF? I mean it's proven headers alone, no tune, just straight bolt on yields over 30whp. That's nuts. Clear indication of the handicap they put on the vehicle in order to increase reliability.

I expected RR's tune to produce 15-20whp tops and would have been ecstatic at 30whp. Which I believe truly is where the power is likely to average out at across multiple test subjects.

[8600RPM]

Ok I give up. There is only so much you can get out of 5 litres, 7k redline and pump gas. E39.m5 5 litres and 400 hp with 7k redline. Mustang 5.0 7k redline and 430 hp. Isf 420 hp. Rcf 467hp but it took them increasing CR and raising redline to 7400.

Now if it was so easy to add 50hp why would lexus go to trouble of lightening internals, increasing CR and raising redline to get 50 hp more out of rcf

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Ok I give up. There is only so much you can get out of 5 litres, 7k redline and pump gas. E39.m5 5 litres and 400 hp with 7k redline. Mustang 5.0 7k redline and 430 hp. Isf 420 hp. Rcf 467hp but it took them increasing CR and raising redline to 7400.

Now if it was so easy to add 50hp why would lexus go to trouble of lightening internals, increasing CR and raising redline to get 50 hp more out of rcf

100hp/L naturally aspirated isn't really that crazy. There are plenty of performance cars doing it. Honda's been able to squeeze that for well over a decade.

[8600RPM]

Again with a redline ilof 7k it's virtually unheard of to get 100 per liter

[PizzaHut]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Ok I give up. There is only so much you can get out of 5 litres, 7k redline and pump gas. E39.m5 5 litres and 400 hp with 7k redline. Mustang 5.0 7k redline and 430 hp. Isf 420 hp. Rcf 467hp but it took them increasing CR and raising redline to 7400.

Now if it was so easy to add 50hp why would lexus go to trouble of lightening internals, increasing CR and raising redline to get 50 hp more out of rcf

Mostly due to emissions.

If emissions weren't a concern, they would have just slapped a set of headers/exhaust and make almost 500 crank hp, then stuff that ISF motor into the RCF and call it a day.

But...since they have to keep it as clean and legal as possible, they had to go through other drastic measures to get the extra power like tweaking little things here and there..

Yes I do think Lexus left a lot on the table with the ISF 5.0 Liter motor. They dyno what, 350whp stock? Just by freeing up the exhaust they are dynoing 400-410whp, thats like almost 495-500 crank hp. That's a 50-60 WHP gain just from header/exhaust, imagine how conservative the tune would be?

[davcrz5]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Ok I give up. Thhiere is only so much you can get out of 5 litres, 7k redline and pump gas. E39.m5 5 litres and 400 hp with 7k redline. Mustang 5.0 7k redline and 430 hp. Isf 420 hp. Rcf 467hp but it took them increasing CR and raising redline to 7400.

Now if it was so easy to add 50hp why would Lexus go to trouble of lightening internals, increasing CR and raising redline to get 50 hp more out of rcf

I've been reading your post regarding your assumption 2UR-GSE ISF motor will not be able to produce more than 20hp on tune. I'm not trying to start an argument with you or discredit you in any way but there are some differences and I'd like to point them out. You seem to be basing your assumption on vehicles with similar HP,TQ, and displacement size. Just because other cars have similar spec's it doesn't necessarily mean ISF will responded in same fashion as e93 or Mustang when tune is added.

I will try to demonstrate how ISF may indeed be able to produce more than 20hp. I will not use my personal opinion or make assumption what I will do is use facts about car you have mentioned more than once to compare against ISF and that's Mustang. You keep bring up Mustang because they both use 5.0 motor make similar HP/TQ and both make power in similar power range between 5000 to 7000rpm but that's where the similarities end.

ok some basic info on ISF with I/H/E they have been dyno proven on average to make between 400hp and 406hp some making less other making slightly more but lets go with average 400hp to 406hp range. 1/4 mile times with street tires low to12's 12.09 to 12.30 with drag radios high 11's 11.80 to 11.90's. These numbers are fact they are not my opinions nor assumption or wishful thinking they can all be verified, so now that we have established some base line numbers lets take look at Mustang and not 2008 4.6L motor which is yr ISF came out but newer 2014 and 2015 Coyote motor.

2014 Mustang Coyote Motor
base line dyno 360rwhp/356tq
After tune and dyno 373rwhp/368tq
Muscle Mustang & Fast Fords took stock Mustangs and did build using only bolt on parts and tune but NO SC or Turbo was used they did not disturb stock block or Transmission internals. Here is the list of parts used
Ford Racing Performance Parts
Cobra Jet intake Manifold, FRPP throttle body, CAI, Stainless Steel Long tube headers, full exhaust, FRPP 4.10 gears and JMS/SCT tune and updated suspension.
After all parts install 413rwhp now ISF with just I/H/E 400 to 406
Stock GT 1/4 run 13.24 at 107.68 after bolt ons and tune 11.94 at 116.98
Stock ISF 1/4 run 12.54 at 117.20 after bolt ons I/H/E 11.91 at 120.58 this info was taken from drag times.

The reason why I posted this up was show how the ISF with just I/H/E put out nearly the same horsepower as the Mustang with Tune and nearly all bolt ons and traps similar 1/4 mile times.

They also swapped out torque converter and went with pro series stage 111 258mm aluminum converter, carbon fiber drive shaft, and set of comp cams XFI stage 3NSR camshafts

When done total was 433rwhp 353tq. I think the ISF with tune should make similar HP.

2015 Mustang GT
Bama Performance
base dyno run [B]381rwhp 359tq
after tune 402rwhp 382tq
CAI, tune 412rwhp 382tq

To me this show that there maybe just bit more left in motor, and I believe they will be able to extract more that just 20hp from tune. Lexus and Toyota are know for over engineering their vehicles if they do it to the motors why wouldn't they do same thing with its tuning ability. When they build there cars they tend not to max them out, they leave some room for safety. What will the final number will be? I don't know, but we will find out soon enough. Either way its win for not just ISF but all cars from Lexus RCF, GSF, IS350 it gives enthusiast another choice to choose from, and with Supercharger kit under development that should be available in few months puts into a whole new class of cars that it can now compete with.

For me it's ability of using forced induction or changing the cam's etc is what makes this so important. The over all goal was to be able to add SC or Turbo etc any bump in power is nice but not the main goal for this tune.