Is the M3 20k better than a 335?

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by southlight

And you're still wondering why Jason deletes these posts?

Best regards, south

Sarcasm and humor is not in violation of any forum rules I am aware of. Neither is debate and discussion of the M3 against other cars. Furthermore I have clearly not made any insults. So yes I wonder in some cases.

[sdiver68]

All the handling improvements amounted to 1 second on an F1 track.

That's LSD, suspension, brakes with race pads, wider wheels/tires, better OEM rubber, EDC, the ///M logo, etc.. (and however much more HP the m3 still had after the altitude correction stock for stock)

Exactly why the M3 can never come out on top of this discussion unless the "status" of the ///M comes into play.

And South since you seem to be offended by these comparisons, why even click a thread titled as this one is? Just don't click!

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Sarcasm and humor is not in violation of any forum rules I am aware of. Neither is debate and discussion of the M3 against other cars. Furthermore I have clearly not made any insults. So yes I wonder in some cases.

Of course you didn't. But Jason said he would delete all the 335i trolling posts, yours was only a reply to that.
Hope you didn't take my comment serious, you just said it didn't violate the rules.

Best regards, south

[southlight]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

And South since you sseem to be offended by these comparisons, why even click a thread titled as this one is? Just don't click!

No, that wasn't meant serious. Seems like I should have added a smiley to my comment on Swamp's post.

Best regards, south

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by southlight

No, that wasn't meant serious. Seems like I should have added a smiley to my comment on Swamp's post.

Best regards, south

OK, my bad. I wonder who flagged the other thread?

[adamr]

the local mag tested the RS4 vs M3, but at altitude here in joburg and ... it got the exact same hot lap times, 1/4 mile and 0-100 times like the 335i sedan that they also tested ... soooooo makes one think at altitude the M3 wud just be a status symbol ... my heart is saying M3, but my brain says stick with the 335i

The mag: "CARS IN ACTION"

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

BTW, a member of e90post just posted a 0-60 timed run of 3.9 seconds with the new proceed version 2.0, drag radials, and a few other inexpensive bolt on mods.

Does give one pause to wonder why BMW didn't offer up the M with a similarly tuned N54 rather than a V8. It would seem to boil down to the aesthetics of a race-bred V8 with deliriously high rpm fun.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

OK, my bad. I wonder who flagged the other thread?

I'm afraid that was me. If you're saying things like "the M3 can't come out ontop of this discussion unless the "status" of the ///M comes into play" you're provoking a hard controversy. It's kinda sad that a friendly and factual discussion between M3 addicts and 335 addicts seems to be impossible. Maybe we could change that...


Best regards, south

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Does give one pause to wonder why BMW didn't offer up the M with a similarly tuned N54 rather than a V8. It would seem to boil down to the aesthetics of a race-bred V8 with deliriously high rpm fun.

Dear BMW,

Just drop in the M5 V10, discussion over.
Just drop the M3 price to $55K well equipped, discussion over.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by southlight

I'm afraid that was me. If you're saying things like "the M3 can't come out ontop of this discussion unless the "status" of the ///M comes into play" you're provoking a hard controversy. It's kinda sad that a friendly and factual discussion between M3 addicts and 335 addicts seems to be impossible. Maybe we could change that...

Best regards, south

Status can be a very important factor for buying a car. Many, many people buy for their perception of a badge.

I don't think discussing status as a reason to buy a car is an attack on anyone.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Status can be a very important factor for buying a car. Many, many people buy for their perception of a badge.

I don't think discussing status as a reason to buy a car is an attack on anyone.

With this additional explanation it's a reasonable point of view. Such claims themself without further comments used to lead to a harsh debate in the past. That's what I meant when I said maybe we can change that...

Best regards, south

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Exactly why the M3 can never come out on top of this discussion unless the "status" of the ///M comes into play.

Any particular reason why you put the word "status" in quotes there? Just curious, of course.

Also, I am considering the M3 largely for the 8400RPM redline and, potentially, the M-DCT. No status here. Others are looking at the EDC and MDrive as reasons to to go with the M, not for their performance but for their ability to tone the car down when desired. The M simply has a different character, and sometimes that's reason enough to choose a car. Even more important than your, ahem, "status", as it were.

Also, in my case, if I do go with the 335i I will likely keep my current M3 instead of trading it in. That means I will end up spending about the same amount either way. I'll have two cars if I go the 335i route, yes, but only because I know I will miss the M character if I give it up. It will become a weekend car, and likely one that I will have to nurse quite a bit in the upcoming years (knock on wood). It could become as much a chore as it is a pleasure. This is why I hope the new M3 can continue to provide me with the adrenaline filled driving I crave, all while continuing to be the perfect daily driver.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

yes, but only because I know I will miss the M character if I give it up. It will become a weekend car, and likely one that I will have to nurse quite a bit in the upcoming years (knock on wood). It could become as much a chore as it is a pleasure. This is why I hope the new M3 can continue to provide me with the adrenaline filled driving I crave, all while continuing to be the perfect daily driver.

Status was in quotes because it means nothing to nothing to me in car choice, although I understand that it means a lot to some others.

And I accept your character argument. It's why my favorite street bike was my Ducati 996S, even as my GSXR1000 ripped it a new one in terms of outright performance (and even my Supersport 600 would on a track).

I am of the opinion that putting the $10K in mods in question on a 335 will give you the weekend/track driving character of an M. It's not like we are comparing a Cayman S or Lotus Exige to a 335i. But others are sure to disagree.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

I am of the opinion that putting the $10K in mods in question on a 335 will give you the weekend/track driving character of an M. It's not like we are comparing a Cayman S or Lotus Exige to a 335i. But others are sure to disagree.

Well, if by character you just mean classic BMW driving dynamics, then for you that is true. But for many of us the high revving motor is the most important piece. And the M-DCT may possibly be the clincher. No amount of modding can give you these things in a 335i.

Plus, when you bring modding into the picture, well, then the warranty argument comes into play. Its well accepted that this is a gamble, and I think some of the premium for the M3 will be money well spent on peace of mind of having a car guaranteed to be covered under warranty.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Keeping the M3 for now; current mileage = 110,000 and still going strong

For me 201,000 and going strong. Just had the compression checked as well. Perfect! Go E36 M3.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by swamp2

For me 201,000 and going strong. Just had the compression checked as well. Perfect! Go E36 M3.

Great to hear, swamp. These cars are built well!

Are you keeping the E36? I am not sure what I will do with the E46 - it depends a bit on whether I go M3 or settle on the 335i. It goes in for routine service next week, and i will have my mechanic do a thorough check to see where things stand.

[JEllis]

My E36 M3 is at almost 120,000 (about 100K of hard driving)... I took it to a independent BMW guy in Socal and he was blown away by how strong the motor was regardless of mileage. He said its the strongest stock 3.2 E36 M3 he has driven! He kept saying that I must have put aftermarket cams in....

Jason

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Great to hear, swamp. These cars are built well!

Are you keeping the E36? I am not sure what I will do with the E46 - it depends a bit on whether I go M3 or settle on the 335i. It goes in for routine service next week, and i will have my mechanic do a thorough check to see where things stand.

Built well: Yes and no. Great in most key areas but there are some weaknesses. My car was rock solid up to about 120k miles. I had a fatigued damaged front subframe (completely failed metal actually) that had to be replaced. Been through 3 water pumps and the biggie was the blown head gasket. That one was $$$ (but I also took the opportunity to do cams, headers and high pressure injectors which added to the bill).

Anyway pretty sure I won't keep the E36. Would be fun to strip down and get it light for a track car but I don't really hit the track that often and that is part of the point of the E92 M3. I also just don't want to be a "2 car guy" whatever that means. Cheers.

[JEllis]

Planning on keeping my 36 M3....

Jason

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Dear BMW,

Just drop in the M5 V10, discussion over.
Just drop the M3 price to $55K well equipped, discussion over.

If the M3 had a V8 or V10 with 500 horsepower this thread would have been nonexsiting, and also other threads regarding Audis and Mercedes competing models.

Then it would challenge Porsche 997 turbo, that would have been a quantum leap M3 right where it should have been, as long as they build it as a sporty GT car.
If it was lighter and more GT3 like, it would be perfect with 420 horsepower.

Just my thoughts, I guess some agree and some dont.

[mikeo]

The OP's original question could also be changed to "Is the M3 $30K better than the 135?", since both cars will be available about the same time in the US. The 135 will be ~400lbs, lighter and with a Procede and Quaife LSD... you do the math.

I've owned several M cars, but I've done my math and I'm saying goodbye to M-Ville. However, I will buy a set of M3 OE 18" wheels from anyone upgrading to an aftermarket set.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mikeo

The OP's original question could also be changed to "Is the M3 $30K better than the 135?", since both cars will be available about the same time in the US. The 135 will be ~400lbs, lighter and with a Procede and Quaife LSD... you do the math.

Let's try the math again:
135i is 1560kg [EU standard]
M3 is 1655kg [EU standard]
That makes a difference of 95kg = 209lbs

A look at the power to weight ratio:
135 has 11.24 lbs per hp, M3 8.69 lbs per hp.

Are you still wanting anybody to do the math?

Best regards, south