slcook54 - Track Journal

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

It's was nice meeting you at Laguna yesterday. Nice looking car as well. I was in the blue e92. Till next time.

Hey Thiago 👋 didn't know that was your handle on here. Awesome car and driving.

[bigjae1976]

You'll find those PS4s will never wear out once they get hard.

Interesting to watch your progression! Keep it up! Seats and harnesses will be transformative, you will drive much better.

Are you still running with traction control on? To unlock the speed and fun of the E9X M3, really need to have it off. Then you can do so much more with the throttle.

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

You'll find those PS4s will never wear out once they get hard.

Interesting to watch your progression! Keep it up! Seats and harnesses will be transformative, you will drive much better.

Are you still running with traction control on? To unlock the speed and fun of the E9X M3, really need to have it off. Then you can do so much more with the throttle.

Ya, they aren't dying but also don't feel like they've lost too much pace yet. They are solid for 3 laps and then get greasy.

I can't wait for seats, harnesses, 1/2 cage. It's really the last major piece of the puzzle along with the cooling system. The rest is just gravy / fine tuning (suspension arms, Akra, lithium battery, aero, etc.).

I'm close to turning traction off. I hired a coach for my next day on 6/19 and we decided to keep everything consistent so we can just focus on improving my driving. I'll plan to turn it off after that.

This is 7 days. They look totally fine.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by slcook54

I'm close to turning traction off. I hired a coach for my next day on 6/19 and we decided to keep everything consistent so we can just focus on improving my driving. I'll plan to turn it off after that.

Traction control is a hurdle that everyone faces. What helped me was doing a drift practice with an instructor. Or drive on track in limited grip situations.

As an instructor, I bump up against this issue almost every weekend I instruct. Thankfully, most are scared vs being over aggressive with the traction control off. You have to change the mindset that the throttle is working for you, not against you. I have yet to run into a student that has NOT had it backwards.

More important you have to come to the mindset that you control where and how much grip the car has. It is no longer - step on the gas and the car goes faster. It is throttle adds grip to the rear tires, brakes add grip to the front. Then practice and develop the feel and understanding of whether oversteer is due to too much throttle or...not enough.

And when someone turns off traction control, they usually induce oversteer because of not enough throttle soon enough - not enough weight transfer and therefore not enough grip. It's a bad habit developed from driving with traction control and being super slow trying to be smooth.

Here's what happens...comes off the brakes, turns in and then the rear immediately steps out. Panic sets in...I'm telling them to add throttle...and then I watch their feet as they step on the throttle like (no offense to any of my former students) a little bitch. Then I say two feet in and around we go.

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Traction control is a hurdle that everyone faces. What helped me was doing a drift practice with an instructor. Or drive on track in limited grip situations.

As an instructor, I bump up against this issue almost every weekend I instruct. Thankfully, most are scared vs being over aggressive with the traction control off. You have to change the mindset that the throttle is working for you, not against you. I have yet to run into a student that has NOT had it backwards.

More important you have to come to the mindset that you control where and how much grip the car has. It is no longer - step on the gas and the car goes faster. It is throttle adds grip to the rear tires, brakes add grip to the front. Then practice and develop the feel and understanding of whether oversteer is due to too much throttle or...not enough.

And when someone turns off traction control, they usually induce oversteer because of not enough throttle soon enough - not enough weight transfer and therefore not enough grip. It's a bad habit developed from driving with traction control and being super slow trying to be smooth.

Here's what happens...comes off the brakes, turns in and then the rear immediately steps out. Panic sets in...I'm telling them to add throttle...and then I watch their feet as they step on the throttle like (no offense to any of my former students) a little bitch. Then I say two feet in and around we go.

Makes a ton of sense and I feel this especially in turn 2 at laguna. You're loading up the front significantly as you're trail braking into 2, but you need to get on the throttle to balance the rear end out and get the car to rotate.

Excited to re learn the car and why I haven't been in a rush to move to a stickier tire.

Also been looking into fast sideways, which is a controlled drift event.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Traction control is a hurdle that everyone faces. What helped me was doing a drift practice with an instructor. Or drive on track in limited grip situations.

As an instructor, I bump up against this issue almost every weekend I instruct. Thankfully, most are scared vs being over aggressive with the traction control off. You have to change the mindset that the throttle is working for you, not against you. I have yet to run into a student that has NOT had it backwards.

More important you have to come to the mindset that you control where and how much grip the car has. It is no longer - step on the gas and the car goes faster. It is throttle adds grip to the rear tires, brakes add grip to the front. Then practice and develop the feel and understanding of whether oversteer is due to too much throttle or...not enough.

And when someone turns off traction control, they usually induce oversteer because of not enough throttle soon enough - not enough weight transfer and therefore not enough grip. It's a bad habit developed from driving with traction control and being super slow trying to be smooth.

Here's what happens...comes off the brakes, turns in and then the rear immediately steps out. Panic sets in...I'm telling them to add throttle...and then I watch their feet as they step on the throttle like (no offense to any of my former students) a little bitch. Then I say two feet in and around we go.

Very well stated and I like the way you talked about throttle/brakes in terms of grip.

I'm in the camp of turn it off sooner and just understand getting up to speed may take a little longer as I slowly progress getting faster instead of just going full send and having the car save me.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Traction control is a hurdle that everyone faces. What helped me was doing a drift practice with an instructor. Or drive on track in limited grip situations.

As an instructor, I bump up against this issue almost every weekend I instruct. Thankfully, most are scared vs being over aggressive with the traction control off. You have to change the mindset that the throttle is working for you, not against you. I have yet to run into a student that has NOT had it backwards.

More important you have to come to the mindset that you control where and how much grip the car has. It is no longer - step on the gas and the car goes faster. It is throttle adds grip to the rear tires, brakes add grip to the front. Then practice and develop the feel and understanding of whether oversteer is due to too much throttle or...not enough.

And when someone turns off traction control, they usually induce oversteer because of not enough throttle soon enough - not enough weight transfer and therefore not enough grip. It's a bad habit developed from driving with traction control and being super slow trying to be smooth.

Here's what happens...comes off the brakes, turns in and then the rear immediately steps out. Panic sets in...I'm telling them to add throttle...and then I watch their feet as they step on the throttle like (no offense to any of my former students) a little bitch. Then I say two feet in and around we go.

Here is just one example of what can happen when the mindset isn't adjusted the first time traction control gets turned off…

This is the out lap at Thunderhill East.
As you crest the hill at T9, the chassis unloads the tires.
And with a high power car it's enough to actually spin the rear tires.

With the TC on, he had been matting the gas pedal going over the hill and the computer had been intervening.

When he decided to try with TC off, he didn't adjust his mindset, matted the gas pedal as per usual, spun the rear tires, didn't realize it soon enough (or ever?) and off he went.

Very sad, beautiful car.
Three tires peeled off the rims and he drove it back to the paddock on three rims.

[slcook54]

06/19/2022 - Track Day #9

Prior to the Day

- Bled brakes. I was chatting with OG Shark and some other friends I learned that it's best practice to bleed the brake system after one or two track days. My last day, the pedal felt mushy despite the Castrol SRF being fairly fresh. I hadn’t bled the system in 5-6 days, I’ll make this a habit to do more routinely.

-Coolant flush. After overheating my last day, I decided to flush the coolant. The needle is now sitting one needle width below the center line on regular driving. I rarely, if ever, observed that before. It was usually 1 needle width above the center line.

-Replaced a couple missing screws from the plastic underbody tray, underneath the side skirt.



I just completed my 9th day with SpeedSF yesterday. I went out with Joe McGuigan, who aside from being a fast driver and running SpeedSF and is also a super nice guy. He provided real-time feedback throughout the day that was easily digestible.

Overall Themes

My goal was to approach the day like a sponge and unwind the bad habits that were starting to form. I wasn’t focused on times given the passenger ballast and the PS4’s being on their 8th day. By the end of the day, I had chunked off parts of the front passenger side tire. Given it was Father’s Day, it was busy, there were ~25 cars in my session and it was hard to find clean laps.

Despite that, it was a knowledge blast throughout the day. We started by focusing specifically on Turn 2, Joe guided me to apex way deeper and treat it more like a diamond. One theme of my driving that Joe picked up right away is that I’m too hard and too late on the brakes. I’m standing too hard on the brakes, pushing too much weight forward and then demanding too much from the front tires while turning. Prior to this outing, I ‘knew’ the concept of trail braking, but don’t think I’d ever truly experienced it while driving. Joe encouraged me to brake earlier, more gradually and to not scrub off so much speed, then gradually release the brake pedal and start to feed the throttle back in to help the car rotate. Previously I was treating the brake like an on/off switch and coasting through the corner until getting back to throttle. Trail braking allowed me to carry more speed through T2 and it felt totally different, it was as if a big light went off in my head. I’m happy to add this tool to the toolkit and am going to develop this more in the future.

Turn 3, I’m impatient and need to turn in later.

We also completely changed my approach to the Corkscrew (T7 & T8). I was previously cutting off the line too much and making the approach narrower than it needed to be. Joe told me that I was effectively making it two turns, when it really just needs to be one. He encouraged me to get all the way over to the right and onto the green strip, be patient and turn in later. I picked this up fairly quickly and it felt significantly improved. You want to get the car pointed to the tree and back to throttle sooner. The amount of compression on the front was significantly larger than what I’d previously experienced.

After exiting the Corkscrew, he instructed me to aim for the second “E” under the Weather Tech sign and be more patient on turn-in for T9. I was slower here than previous days, but I felt that I was driving a cleaner line and will add more speed back the next time out.

Turn 11 is my biggest area for improvement as it sets up the straight. I’m braking too late and too aggressively. I’m scrubbing too much speed off and loading up the front tires too much. He told me to brake earlier, more gradually and carry more speed through the corner. I can’t say I put it together yesterday, but this will be my primary focus area next time.




Additional Takeaways

Joe pushed me to slow down my initial turn in and be slower with my hands. I was braking and then jerking the wheel too much on initial turn in, making a B line for the apex. The majority of corners at Laguna benefit from a later turn in, usually at the end of the white triangles. This improved as the day went on.

To bigjae1976's point earlier in the thread, Joe also observed in oversteer situations that my instincts were correct but my hands were too slow. I need to preempt the oversteer faster with my hands and get to throttle more aggressively. This also improved throughout the day.

Laps

In our first session of the day, Joe took the car out and layed down a 1:44.64. Mind you, this was his first time in the car, on the 3rd lap, out of only 4 total, and we were held up in T11. I estimate we lost a full second there. So, with two people in the car on 8 day old PS4s and missing T11, he still did a 1:44.64. He was confident there is a 1:42 in the car in the current configuration. I noticed how much more balanced the car felt as he was driving, it wasn’t pitching back and forth as significantly as it does when I drive.

He liked how the car was set up, but said that the brakes are overwhelming the PS4’s and encouraged me to move to the NT01. I’m going to follow his lead and see how they work out. I like how Grassroots described them, “Like the Nankang AR-1, this is another 100tw track day special that delivers on par with today’s Super-200s for single-lap pace. But it can repeat that trick lap after lap, session after session—all the way to the cords. Sizing and availability are somewhat limited, but it’s still a favorite among many track rats.”

I’m excited to add a durable tire that is better suited to the car’s setup and can run an entire session. I can’t complain about the PS4 as a first tire, but after 3 hot laps, they fall off. It’s hard to build up pace and stay consistent during a session when the tires fall off so quickly.

My best lap for the day was a 1:47.41, 2.3 seconds off my PB, but I was happy with the result given the factors described above.

I also met Alex redpriestand it was awesome to finally connect in person. Great hanging out! Your journal was the original inspiration for this thread. I can’t wait to see the E92 in all its stroker glory. It will be awesome to share some laps together.

Overall it was a fantastic learning experience and I’m excited for the back to backs on 7/25 and 7/26 with SpeedSF.




What’s Next?

NT01 275/35/18 Square. I’ll grab these in the next week or two.

Do88 kit, I’m not sure if this will get done before my track day, but as the tires get stickier, it’s only going to add more heat into the system. I overheated the car in the first session and the high temperature for the day was only 68 degrees. I ran the heater the rest of the day and that seemed to alleviate the overheating. Despite some back and forth in the general chitchat thread, I don’t think the Dinan underdrive pulley is helping the cause either. I’m not sure if I will keep it or not. I need to get this sorted out. I want this car to be able to reliably do 20 minutes sessions without the tires getting too greasy or the car overheating in moderate temps. I don’t really want to chop up the hood just yet, but I’m also considering adding hood vents in the future.

Seats are also still on the list, but will address cooling first.

[slcook54]

Videos

Session 5 - Full session, the track cleared up significantly, only 6 cars made it to grid. Fast lap starts at 3:45

Joe's fast lap (1:44.64).

[bigjae1976]

Nice write up! Sounds like you're making a lot of progress.

Sometimes less is more with brakes. Threshold braking later isn't always the answer if it's upsetting the balance of the car. The key skill is coming off the brakes smoothly. The goal is that I can't tell when you're off the brakes and back on the throttle other than exhaust noise.

You're trying to keep the weight on the nose of the car for turn in and to some extent after turn in. If you jump off the brake and onto the throttle then you're taking grip away from where you need it - front wheels. Especially the inner front wheel.

NT01s are going be a little different. They like a lot of slip angle and sliding…and they won't provide as much audible feedback as the PS4s. But when you hear an angry howling from the NT01s…that means you're in trouble 😊

[redpriest]

Was a pleasure chatting in person

[Hein Jockins]

slcook54 Curious what your thoughts are on ohlins Trackday after getting used to it? I really want MCS but not sure I need to spend the $ at my skill level (been tracking for about 1/2 a year but the addiction has set in so I intend to fully commit this car to a 90% track car in the near future).

Interested to see if you've considered other options like ohlins Dedicated Track or MCS or you love your current setup.

[slcook54]

7/25 & 7/26 - Track Day #10 & #11

Update time. After my last track day in June, the car received a lot of love. I’ve been suffering from overheating in 20 minute sessions in sub-70 degree weather. This isn't acceptable to me. I specifically race Laguna for the moderate climate and need the car to be able to run a 20 minute session without issue.

I reached out to Shane at Leddy Motorsport who got me sorted with the Do88 Big Pack including the radiator, oil cooler, DCT cooler and power steering cooler. Unfortunately, the oil cooler was out of stock due to supply issues on the Do88 side. He refunded me the difference and I was able to source the oil cooler from Auto Couture. Do88 drop shipped the kit straight from Sweden and these guys need some lessons on packing. There was a full hole punched through the box and into the radiator. I contacted Shane and he had a fresh one sent to me via 2-day. Solid service and communication.

I won’t go into the specifics of the Do88 parts as SYT_Shadow and dogbone have both covered them in their threads.

While we were in there, we refreshed the rest of the cooling system, including a new water pump, thermostat, coolant expansion tank, radiator hoses, vent hoses, ECT sensor, and fresh fluids. The car stayed slightly over the third marker over two days of abuse, no more overheating!

The shop also discovered a slight bit of sweating coming from the front driver side of the transmission. They tracked it back to the thermostat o-ring and replaced it. No more leaks were found after a 10 mile drive.

I decided to further the car's diet with an Antigravity H6 60AH battery. It bolts right into the stock location and clocks in at 18lbs. I opted for the highest amperage battery in the H6 category, I could have gone lighter but personally didn’t see the need.



We tossed the car on the scales after installing the battery and it clocked in at 3,514lbs with 15 gallons of fuel on board. This is what I was expecting as I estimate I’ve removed 100lbs between the wheels (25), brakes (35) and battery (40). My car is DCT, cloth / manual seats, single hump, and has a carbon roof.

Next up was fresh rubber. The PS4S did their duty for 8 days and it was time to move to something more track appropriate. I was eyeing the ECF but was ultimately steered toward the NT01. They were difficult to source, but ultimately found them through Discount Tire and they ended up shipping in 3 different packages, 1 from Seattle, 1 from California and 2 from Florida . VT got them mounted and balanced and we were off.



Track Day

I was excited to put what I’d learned the last day into practice and see what the car felt like with new tires, no passenger and a tiny bit of weight loss.

In my very first session out, I clocked a 1:43.99, already a full second faster than my previous best time. The sidewall stiffness felt totally different and confidence inspiring. I was super happy that this was my baseline to work from for the next two days. After my first session, my hot pressures were 41psi. I dropped them down to 37psi throughout the rest of the day. This was likely still too high as I was experiencing greasiness after 3-4 hot laps. I’m not sure if that’s common with NT01 or not.

I will say that SpeedSF has my least favorite gridding system, there is a fast lane and a slow lane, that’s it. In my first session, I gridded in the slow lane and needed to pass the entire grid with the exception of a 996 turbo, who was faster than me. I was relegated to running in Open B, since the time cutoff was a 1:42, despite the fact that a lot of guys in Open A had never run a 42 at Laguna. Throughout the rest of the two days, I gridded in the first through third slot in the fast lane and I would do my out lap, get maybe one or two clean laps and then I would catch a train of Miatas / spec e30’s. Over two full days, I think I had a total of 15 clean laps.



Fortunately, I found a nice opening in my last session of day 1. I was able to find some clean track and knocked out a nice cluster getting progressively faster, 1:43.52, 1:43.64, 1.43.23 and 1:43.15. I was happy to knock off a full 2 seconds off my previously fast time, with an optimal lap of 1:41.72.

My previous PB was a 1:45.1 and optimal of 1:44.0. I was very satisfied with the Day 1 results.



I wasn’t able to improve my fastest lap on Day 2, but did eat into my optimal by another 0.4 seconds ending at 1:41.33. I’ve never had such a large delta between my optimal and actual time. I knew there was a 1:42 in the car, but I just couldn’t find enough open track to string a couple of good laps together.



Day 2 was the beginning of my fifth day on the Ferodo DS1.11 and they were already looking low. The front right brake and tire at Laguna take the most punishment. After the first two sessions, I swapped the front right with some used spares that had a bit more life. The front left looked fine, but in my 4th session, I got into the brakes in Turn 3 and the brake pedal surged forward an inch toward the floor before grabbing, almost sending me into the dirt. I hate this feeling more than anything. I decided to call it for the day and pulled off the track. The front left had a bit of smoke emanating and I knew the pads were toast.

I’m on the AP 9660 kit which runs 18mm pads, no ducting and Ferodo DS1.11 pads. I only got 4 days out of the pads and at $600 / set, I’m not really happy with this setup. It’s not about the money, but having to worry about the pad after only 4 days. I’m doing a lot of double days now and am swapping pads every other outing. I would prefer a setup with more longevity.

I already ordered a fresh set of DS1.11, which is going on the car this week, but also contacted Essex for some different options. Short-term, Wade recommended that I move to the DS3.12, which has a higher Mu and more initial bite. Long-term, I think I’ll also move to the 9668 kit, taking a small weight penalty in the process but being able to run 25mm pads. Unfortunately, they won’t fit my E88s, so I will have to run a small spacer as well. I was chatting with slicer over the phone and he said that since I’m running F80 hubs up front to look into the Turner spacers with the integrated hub extender.

What’s next?

I have a fairly quick turnaround for another double header at Laguna on 8/6-8/7. One of my closest friends from Austin is flying in for the weekend and he holds national level BMW & Porsche instructor certifications and is an all around badass driver. Excited to share some seat time together in the car.

My SMOG time is up, so VT will be flashing the car back to stock and having it smogged next week. Then we’re tossing on a brand new Akrapovic Evo system paired with a stage 2 tune from Mike BPMSport. Shoutout to my friend SAMM3Y who gave me a screaming deal on the system, it helps to have friends in the right places who you may have previously bribed with pizza and beer. I wanted to check a couple of boxes with an exhaust system, 1) lightweight, this will net a 50lb weight reduction 2) passes sound at Laguna 3) high flow cats. Akra checks all the boxes, if I was solving strictly for sound I would have gone with an ESS mid pipe and Corsa rear section, which has my favorite overall tone.





Further out on the horizon

I’m starting to get very frustrated with the stock seats and seat belts. They are heavy, unsupportive, and physically taxing. The seat belt is also cutting into my neck, which is super annoying. I’ve tried at least 20 different seats and the Profi XL fits like a glove, but was recently recalled by the FIA. kevin @ eas said he’ll likely have the updated version available in September. I’m not sure which mounts to run, the Macht Schnell units from berns's thread look promising and I know Brey Krausse is a popular option.

The car will also have a half cage built by Tony at TCD. We’ll get rid of the majority of the ancillary weight in the back half of the car.

Valve cover gaskets, SLON vanos covers, injectors, plugs, fuel filter and fuel breather valve are on the short-term maintenance docket.

[slcook54]

Fast Lap 1:43.15

[wyatth]

Hell yeah brother!

[e36clubracer]

If you’re going to have Tony do a half cage wait and talk to him about seats and mounts. The off the shelf mounts are a compromise. Tony can make you whatever you actually need and it fits 100%.

If you haven’t looked at the Racetech seats they are also top shelf and Tony sells those too. I cannot say enough nice things about the work Tony does, the car he built us is amazing. He is in a league of his own.

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

If you’re going to have Tony do a half cage wait and talk to him about seats and mounts. The off the shelf mounts are a compromise. Tony can make you whatever you actually need and it fits 100%.

If you haven’t looked at the Racetech seats they are also top shelf and Tony sells those too. I cannot say enough nice things about the work Tony does, the car he built us is amazing. He is in a league of his own.

Do you think he can accommodate a setup with sliders? I'd like to retain them as I toss the keys to other people fairly often and would like some room when loading up the tires. Will call him soon regardless. I tried a couple of the Race Tech options at Wine Country Motorsports and didn't find one that fit well, but their Race Tech selection was fairly limited IIRC.

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Do you think he can accommodate a setup with sliders? I'd like to retain them as I toss the keys to other people fairly often and would like some room when loading up the tires. Will call him soon regardless. I tried a couple of the Race Tech options at Wine Country Motorsports and didn't find one that fit well, but their Race Tech selection was fairly limited IIRC.

I don’t know about the sliders, I’d ask him. Either way I’d at least talk to him about options. He setup my seat with three holes to adjust it but it’s not on sliders.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Def talk to Tony about the whole safety system working together. The half cage should work w the seats and harness. They're not as effective if you do it in piecemeal.

Also, be prepared for strong opinions from Tony. He… doesn't hold his thoughts well but is often right. Lol.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

Def talk to Tony about the whole safety system working together. The half cage should work w the seats and harness. They're not as effective if you do it in piecemeal.

Also, be prepared for strong opinions from Tony. He… doesn't hold his thoughts well but is often right. Lol.

I agree. At first he can be off-putting. Just realize that while Tony has opinions, his opinions have been earned through vast experience. He can drive circles around pretty much all of us and knows what makes our cars fast. His expertise is hard earned and has results to back it up. He shares his knowledge with those that will listen. When Tony speaks about building cars for the track or tracking a car, I listen.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Do you think he can accommodate a setup with sliders? I'd like to retain them as I toss the keys to other people fairly often and would like some room when loading up the tires. Will call him soon regardless. I tried a couple of the Race Tech options at Wine Country Motorsports and didn't find one that fit well, but their Race Tech selection was fairly limited IIRC.

i can't remember if you and i talked about this specifically, but sliders and a fixed back race seat probably won't allow for tire egress between the B pillar and seat. i don't think the sliders will move that far forward, and a larger seat will probably start rubbing the widening center console. you could probably load them in through the trunk then reach in from behind the seat to arrange them.

i'm kinda surprised rooftop baskets aren't more common with these cars. there is a ton of room without anything back there, but fixed backs and a harness bar complicate things. it takes two minutes to take my rack on/off.

[slcook54]

Yep. In the span of 24 hours I've become comfortable with ditching the sliders.