navigating suspension options

[kolosy]

i'm slowly plotting out a path for track upgrades for the e90. it's got 145k miles on it, and original shocks (with H&R springs) so those need to go soon (impressed they aren't visibly leaking).

I'm still a n00b, and even if i got the most configurable suspension setup in the world i wouldn't know how to set it up correctly. that said, i don't want to miss this opportunity and put back stock shocks either.

there's a couple of interesting options in classifieds at the moment
- a set of AST5100s for ~$2800
- a set of Bilstein B16s for about the same
- a set of Moton ClubSport coilovers with true rear for ~$4k

I like the idea of a second hand set since I don't really have strong preferences at the moment, but also don't want to buy something i'm going to not get value from.

Would appreciate some advice on which way to go.

Experience-wise, I'm probably a n00b+ -- 6 days on track, including a 2 day Porsche school. Have 3 days booked in the next month. Car is only meant for the track so I only care about streetability insofar as I'm going to be driving it to the track and back.

[leftfootbr8king]

If you’re intending to spend a bit of time on the track going forward, the Moton kit is probably the move, from those options.

I also have that kit. Zero complaints. It’s a Motorsport grade 2 way kit and should you really advance in the future it can be upgraded to 3 or 4 way.

[derbo]

https://3dmmotorsport.com/products/b...suspension-kit

Why not this solution? It's probably more than enough for most people here doing HPDEs.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by derbo

https://3dmmotorsport.com/products/b...suspension-kit

Why not this solution? It's probably more than enough for most people here doing HPDEs.

only because it's comparable cost-wise to the (used) moton kit and that seems more future-proof

[derbo]

Originally Posted by kolosy

only because it's comparable cost-wise to the (used) moton kit and that seems more future-proof

That's fair reason! The expandability is a good plus!

[DRLane]

kolosy Moton and AST are effectively the same company. The 5100 is upgradable as well and might be better starting point.

For a true coil over rear you might want to invest in reinforcement of the shock tower (so take that cost into account).

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by DRLane

kolosy Moton and AST are effectively the same company. The 5100 is upgradable as well and might be better starting point.

For a true coil over rear you might want to invest in reinforcement of the shock tower (so take that cost into account).

Good to know. Is that a must have day one, or just something to keep in mind? And are we talking a bolt on brace of some sort, or welding?

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by kolosy

Good to know. Is that a must have day one, or just something to keep in mind? And are we talking a bolt on brace of some sort, or welding?

You could nothing, I believe there are cars on here that doing nothing and haven’t had failures.

It’s typically a weld solution to strengthen the tower so the force doesn’t crack it.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by kolosy

Good to know. Is that a must have day one, or just something to keep in mind? And are we talking a bolt on brace of some sort, or welding?

you don't "have" to, if you're just using the car stricly for track and like a few weekend drives.

if you're abusing the car as intended.. id probably do it while you're getting a cage installed or something.

with that said... based on your current track experience.

i am with Derbo on the 3DM kit.. or even just getting a MCS Singles.

like you said you couldn't figure out what settings to do LOL.

and with those 2 kits i mentioned, you'd be able to set it and forget it.. or make micro adjustments with 1 or 2 clicks.. and still be okay..

you probably wont need 2/3ways until you feel you've exceeded the 1 ways..

I personally enjoy my single adjustable.. since i just do one track here in CA mainly.. and most of them all drive the same if i did venture out..2 like Chuckwalla vs Buttonwillow..

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

you don't "have" to, if you're just using the car stricly for track and like a few weekend drives.

if you're abusing the car as intended.. id probably do it while you're getting a cage installed or something.

with that said... based on your current track experience.

i am with Derbo on the 3DM kit.. or even just getting a MCS Singles.

like you said you couldn't figure out what settings to do LOL.

and with those 2 kits i mentioned, you'd be able to set it and forget it.. or make micro adjustments with 1 or 2 clicks.. and still be okay..

you probably wont need 2/3ways until you feel you've exceeded the 1 ways..

I personally enjoy my single adjustable.. since i just do one track here in CA mainly.. and most of them all drive the same if i did venture out..2 like Chuckwalla vs Buttonwillow..

thanks, i guess that's what i'm looking for more clarity on -- are the 2 ways an ongoing adjustment battle that i'm currently ilequipped for? or can a race shop set it up for me and i can leave it alone until i know what i'm doing?

partly hung up on the fact that i can get the 2 ways for the same $$ as the ohlins.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by kolosy

thanks, i guess that's what i'm looking for more clarity on -- are the 2 ways an ongoing adjustment battle that i'm currently ilequipped for? or can a race shop set it up for me and i can leave it alone until i know what i'm doing?

partly hung up on the fact that i can get the 2 ways for the same $$ as the ohlins.

Remember that shocks will eventually need a rebuild costing around $800-1k, and used shocks will be closer to needing a rebuild

2 ways are easier to adjust once you learn what the adjustments do, because you can directly adjust what you want rather than just rebound

[e92BMW///M3]

I currently have the Ohlins R&T (im not suggesting that as an option) and will say that the thought of a 2 or 3 way at this point in my tracking experience seems daunting. A race shop could give you a 'baseline' to sort of set it and forget it, but then why have the 2 or 3 way adjustability. I assume the answer would be its something to grow into.

I am all for doing things once, but I think the learning curve on a 2 or 3 way will be steep once you get to the point of adjusting at the track to tweak feel/balance.

[tsk94]

2-ways have their advantages, but unless you know what you're doing with the adjustments you may not benefit. That said, it's not overly complicated to utilize once you understand what happens when you adjust compress vs. rebound and where both come into play.
The main thing the Ohlins do that basically no one else does in an off the shelf option is an inverted front monotube damper - which is considerably stronger and not prone to failure like a traditional strut in a motorsport application.

If you're going to do a single, I'd say the 3DM Ohlins are a no-brainer. Even more so than MCS for the inverted front strut reason. I'm pretty sure the Ohlins work out cheaper than MCS by the time you factor in buying camber plates, mounts an springs. The MCS are not cheap nowadays.

For the same price as the Ohlins, you could get a new KW Clubsport kit. These are a great off the shelf option if you want a 2-way. They are a twin tube vs. monotube of the Ohlins & MCS. That's not necessarily a bad thing as twin tubes generally ride less harshly (particularly on the street) having much lower gas pressure compared to monotubes. But monotube dampers, in general, are superior for track use.

For true rear coilover, I'd say reinforce unless you're running a modest spring rate.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by kolosy

thanks, i guess that's what i'm looking for more clarity on -- are the 2 ways an ongoing adjustment battle that i'm currently ilequipped for? or can a race shop set it up for me and i can leave it alone until i know what i'm doing?

partly hung up on the fact that i can get the 2 ways for the same $$ as the ohlins.

Sure, you can go with two ways, but having two ways doesn't always mean it's better in every case. The 3DM kit and MC1way are super solid for dual duty, with the MCS being modular and having proven records in the track thread.

Two-way coilovers are better because of their ability to cool down the fluid more efficiently, provide extra shock travel, and individual adjustment. However, you might not notice significant differences if you just jump straight into two-ways.

I had two-ways in my S2K, and I was constantly adjusting them for the specific event I was attending. But I did enjoy my JRZ two-ways. On my M3, I'm back with single adjustable dampers because I want to focus less on tinkering with my damper settings and more on my driving.

One important point that was also mentioned is that most people overlook the fact that proper two-ways require annual rebuilds (or inspection) if used as intended. For those who use them occasionally, keeping track of the miles used and planning for a rebuild every winter or during periods when not tracking is essential.

Regarding having a race shop set it up, sure, it can be helpful. However, if you're getting more serious about tracking, that means you need to get more serious about learning and understanding the setup as well.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by tsk94

If you're going to do a single, I'd say the 3DM Ohlins are a no-brainer. Even more so than MCS for the inverted front strut reason. I'm pretty sure the Ohlins work out cheaper than MCS by the time you factor in buying camber plates, mounts an springs. The MCS are not cheap nowadays.

yeah, looks like the 3DM kit is ~$500 less with mounts and camber plates than the MCS 1-way.

leaning that way thanks to all the input.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

Two-way coilovers are better because of their ability to cool down the fluid more efficiently, provide extra shock travel, and individual adjustment. However, you might not notice significant differences if you just jump straight into two-ways.

You're thinking of remote reservoirs here, not necessarily two ways

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

You're thinking of remote reservoirs here, not necessarily two ways

true sorry 2 way REMOTE reservoir is more travel. you're right. i mixed it up.

[kolosy]

just pulled the trigger on the 3dm dedicated track setup. CAN'T WAIT!!

[derbo]

Originally Posted by kolosy

just pulled the trigger on the 3dm dedicated track setup. CAN'T WAIT!!

Glad you saw the light