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05-23-2015, 11:23 PM | #1 |
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From VANOS issues to...???
My aim here is to document the symptoms my car is currently experiencing, and present the facts as they arise, in the hope that we may (eventually) draw meaningful conclusions.
Because threads tend to digress from the original discussion point, I will instead provide updates via this initial post. 24 May 2015 - A recent history of VANOS issues VANOS related issues have occurred on my car over the past 18 months: 20 Jan 2014 - 73,200 km - VANOS fault (code 271C-P000C). New intake solenoid valve installed in bank 2. 27 Jan 2014 - 73,284 km - Added BPM Sport tune (Stage 1) and some feature coding 19 Feb 2014 - 73,470 km - Previous VANOS fault returns (271C-P000C) on bank 2. A piece of plastic found blocking the oil line to the intake solenoid. 16 May 2014 - 74,605 km - Service. Engine oil and filter replaced. Oil sample taken. 12 June 2014 - BPM stage 2 tune and primary cat delete. 15 July 2014 - 75,844 km - Pre-track day service. Engine oil and filter replaced, brake and clutch fluids done, H&R sport springs fitted, wheel alignment. 19 July 2014 - Morgan Park track weekend. Car runs flawlessly, does 350KM's of track duty. Car is perfect on the drive home (3 hours) the next day. Late July 2014 - Car starts, but idle is not normal. Car feels very "lumpy". By default, my car has rev limit set at 4000rpm until oil temp over 90C. Engine fault now displayed - yellow CEL and iDrive warnings. ECU changes idle setting after approx 1 minute to compensate, and sets a reduced rev limit (stays at 4000rpm even after oil warm). Timing is clearly out, but otherwise engine sounds normal. Clearing the fault codes has no effect, and symptoms return at next start up. Fault code is now advising issue with VANOS inlet cam adjustment unit, bank 2. 27 Aug 2014 - 76,613 km - Replaced inlet cam adjustment unit on bank 2. Replaced battery. Car back to normal. 10 Oct 2014 - 76,956 km - Another pre-track day service. Replaced oil and oil filter. Oil sample taken. Yellow CEL appears on drive home. No track day for me. Next day, clear codes and spend the weekend driving and trying to make the CEL re-appear. Do over 200kms, and no CEL. 9 Dec 2014 - 77,383 km - Yellow CEL. Another VANOS fault on bank 2 again, but this time exhaust solenoid valve. Remove exhaust solenoid valves, clean, swap banks. Metal found in the faulty solenoid. Replaced oil and oil filter. 22 May 2015 - Engine fault warning while driving on motorway. Engine power cut to 4000rpm limit. At next stop, can feel the "lumpy" engine again, but otherwise drives and sounds normal. Go straight to the Mike the mechanic. Diagnosis is that VANOS inlet cam adjustment unit on bank 1 is now faulty, and needs replacing. Check oil filter - metal is present. At this point, the theory is that there is something else going that's causing these VANOS issues; that the metal in the oil is causing failures downstream. Where is the metal coming from? Suspect = BEARINGS. Suggested course of action: tear down the motor, inspect for damage, replace the rod bearings and main bearings, clean the motor, re-build. It won't be until July that I can get the car in (Mike's a busy guy). I will post updates as this story unfolds. H. 27 June 2015 The observed symptom is a VANOS solenoid valve (inlet bank 1) that is stuck open, and that probably has a blockage. This has occurred on the car previously (inlet bank 2), and metal was found in that particular solenoid. The aim is to try to identify the root cause of the wear metals seen so far (in the solenoids and oil filter). This could be from anywhere, and we won't know until the engine is opened up. After discussing with Mike, the planned course of action is to drop the oil pan, and replace the conrod bearings and bolts only. While the oil pan is off, inspect the crankshaft (as best you can without pulling the entire motor apart). At this stage, as the engine won't be coming out of the car, the main bearings won't be inspected. For the conrod bearing job, the following parts have been ordered: 8 x BMW 11 24 7 838 088 (bearing shell, red) 8 x BMW 11 24 7 838 089 (bearing shell, blue) 1 x ARP 201-6001 rod bolt kit 1 x BMW 11 13 784 1085 (oil pan gasket) The car will go in to the shop mid-July. I have decided to go with OEM bearing shells. If metal is circulating in the engine, the oil filter should trap it before it gets to the VANOS system. So, another possibility is that the oil filter bypass valve is stuck open. 11 July 2015 After delays with the OEM bearing shells, Calico CT-1 coated bearing shells were ordered instead. Bearings and ARP conrod bolts have arrived. 25 July 2015 The OEM bearings (088/089 part) and conrod bolts have been pulled, and the ARP bolts and CT-1 coated bearings (702/703 part) put in. All of the original bearings shells showed some sign of wear. Here are the old bearings (cylinders numbered, uppers on top, lowers on bottom): The VANOS issue was from a failing inlet cam adjustment unit (Bank1): This was replaced with a new one (both can adjustment units have now been replaced on this car). The intake and exhaust solenoids were OK, and not blocked. When the sump was removed, bits of black "plastic" were found in the sump pan, and the strainer on the oil suction pipe was partly covered with the remains a round, silver-coloured piece of paper (like the seal from a 1L bottle of oil). I speculate that in the past there has been a careless oil change, or top up of oil; there is no other way that type of material can get into an engine. Here's hoping that is the end of the story. H Last edited by EarthboundMisfit; 07-24-2015 at 09:24 PM.. Reason: Update |
05-24-2015, 01:48 AM | #2 |
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Damn mate that sucks, when you had the oil analysis done previously did they find anything abnormal?
I'm sure this thread will cause a few members to grow a few extra grey hairs!! G/L with the repairs!! |
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05-24-2015, 02:30 AM | #3 | |
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05-24-2015, 03:22 AM | #4 |
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The first analysis stated "Aluminium is slightly elevated and may indicate piston or bearing wear", but the subsequent one was within limits.
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05-24-2015, 03:23 AM | #5 |
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05-24-2015, 03:31 AM | #6 |
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Have you heard any unusual noise like ticking?
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05-24-2015, 04:01 AM | #7 |
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I too am sorry to hear of your woes... but as I've just had a VANOS intake solenoid fault diagnosed the grey hairs have indeed just multiplied considerably. What year is your car and how many kms has it done. I only bought mine recently and the oil was changed pre-purchase. I have had the Stage 1 BPM tune and the Cold Start removed (I.e. I too have limit revs until the engine warms up) and everything was fine until the Reduced Power warning appeared on the dash... I really hope my issue isn't bearing related although it's better to find out early and try and prevent it with a bearing change. Do you think there's any correlation between VANOS issues and bearing issues?
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05-24-2015, 09:26 PM | #8 |
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Sad to hear this mate. This makes me even more weary driving the s65. I am waiting for the custom clevite bearings that are around 4 months away in the states and will probably complete a preventative change with mike in Brisbane as well. The new bearings are meant to address the issue with the right tolerances as opposed to putting either coated or wpc treated oem bearings that may present the same issues. Let us know how you get on and hopefully it isn't requiring anything too major. Good luck.
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05-24-2015, 11:21 PM | #9 | |
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I am planning to change to two TVAs next weekend.
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05-24-2015, 11:24 PM | #10 | |
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05-25-2015, 12:23 AM | #11 |
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05-25-2015, 12:33 AM | #12 | |
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There could be a correlation between VANOS issues and bearing deterioration - if bearings are losing material, that metal has to flow through the oil system, and could be affecting VANOS parts that rely on oil pressure to function (like the solenoids and adjustment units that have failed on my car). The obvious sign is metal in the oil filter. Oil filters should be opened and inspected at every oil change. It could also be that something else inside the engine is breaking down (like a piston, piston ring)... A visual inspection (at tear down) will reveal all. |
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05-25-2015, 12:36 AM | #13 | |
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05-25-2015, 12:43 AM | #14 | |
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I've been running Mobil 1 0W-40 for a couple of years also and have confidence in that oil. My oil analysis results on that oil have been consistently good, and I like short-ish change intervals (before each track day, and at 5000 km or 6 months, whichever is first). |
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05-25-2015, 06:02 AM | #15 |
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Yeah... Pretty sure it was a solenoid not a TVA.... Two different dealers ran diagnostics and got the same results. Sadly after changing the solenoid and re flushing it the engine still remained in limp mode. There's talk of re sequencing the VANOS as a next step but I'll more from WC BMW tomorrow I'm sure...
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05-25-2015, 06:11 AM | #16 |
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As for the custom Clevite bearings... are they a new product? I read pages of posts yesterday and they seemed to think (at that point in time) that there was no option that would improve the clearance and that oem was the way to go. Have Clevite made something specifically to address the S65 design issue with its teeny tiny clearances?
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05-25-2015, 10:39 AM | #17 | |
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05-26-2015, 04:30 AM | #18 |
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I certainly hope the oil isn't a contributing factor! Turns out my dealer put in M1 0w40 on the pre-purchase inspection... Perhaps this needs a mechanical adjustment to cater for the thinner viscosity (I doubt it but I'm just speculating).
Do you think the BPM Stage 1 tune could have anything to do with it? |
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05-26-2015, 07:40 AM | #19 |
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It wouldn't be oil or the tune. The bearings are seemingly a latent defect, look at all the stock engines being replaced stateside on goodwill, well outside of voluntary warranty period by BMW NA. In comparison, BMW here doesn't seem to care.
Be wary of a dealer retiming the vanos, last I heard BMW Australia didn't even have a part number for the vanos tool. |
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05-26-2015, 08:05 AM | #21 |
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Well, eight years into ownership, there is nothing much one can do. Just hope that you still got a healthy engine. M1 0w-40 is to mitigate further erosion of the bearing, and it's only a Band-Aid solution. I've enjoyed eight great years, and if $hit happens, so be it. Worst things happen in life.
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05-26-2015, 08:18 AM | #22 |
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Yep true. It does sounds like the bearings have an element of slight variance across engines, so you're right. Rebuilds can be in order of $20k however for something that is being dealt with more realistically in U.S. Was it EAS who found a factory plastic liner still installed on a bearing in an engine tear down they did recently.
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