A/C evaporator leaking. Dealer wants $4k to fix

[aus]

OP, that blows. I just don't get why they wouldn't good will this fix.

Originally Posted by boostedM

I just got informed of the same issue at ~56K. Quoted 3K to fix. This is ridiculous to me. I'm going to ask about extended warranty. But honestly, with my mods, I don't see it happening. Just shelled out $4100 to get ONE OEM header replaced. The stealership is bending me over the kitchen sink.

Edit: Also might ask about getting it goodwilled. Guess we'll see...

Sorry to go OT, but why did you need to replace a header?

[boostedM]

Originally Posted by aus

Sorry to go OT, but why did you need to replace a header?

When I still had my high-flow cats on the car, I caught one of them coming out of a particularly steep exit to a parking garage in South Carolina...to the point where the car wouldn't even move any farther forward. Warped the header. Talk about an expensive mistake

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

I have 52K miles on the car and dealer says even though the car is less than 4 years old, they won't stretch the mileage to cover the repair. Quote for the work was over $4k because they say they need to remove the entire dash to replace the evaporator. I called BMWNA to see what they will do. They said they would contact the dealer's service manager to see if they would be willing to work something out with me. Hopefully I'll hear something good but I'm already shopping around for an independent shop that can do the work.

Is it really necessary to remove the entire dash to replace the evaporator. Seems like a really bad design if that is the case. Dealer said the V8 just doesn't allow enough room to access it from the engine bay.

It wouldn't surprise me. I had to replace a door regulator, and that simple task required disassembling nearly the entire door just to get to the part. BMW does love to interlock panels.

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Got a call back from BMWNA. They said that the $500 discount the dealer offered me is all they are willing to do at this point because the issue does not affect the driveability of the car. Well I say BS because if it doesn't have a/c I won't be driving it.

Anybody know how I can raise this to the next level at BMWNA? I've already started my search for an indy mechanic to do this work. If BMW is not willing to help and only builds cars to last 50k miles, then I can give my money to someone else.

THIS is why they won't get rich cutting a check, but they might be poor by not cutting it. BMW spends a lot of money on advertising. Pissing off current loyal customers seems to be a waste of money, and a good way to send Mercedes and Audi some business.

I hope that you get it sorted out to your satisfaction.

[swartzentruber]

Well, it seems unlikely they'll cover the entire repair (though if it's a common Hawaii issue, seems like they should), and I'd guess the best case is splitting the cost. That would still cost $2000 out of pocket, and based on the stories about this dealership, going to the experienced indy mech for $400 more is a no brainer (and that's best case of splitting repair cost). As others have mentioned, the goodwill idea seems to work better when it's the dealer pushing it, as in "they've been a loyal customer", I'd hate to lose them. If you have to push it yourself, I'm sure it's unfortunately just not as meaningful to corporate.

Thread killer, you crack me up with "unlike most techs, I don't end up with extra screws".

[4corners]

Originally Posted by spyderco10

my a/c evaporator had a leak at 7200 miles, must be something to do with the humidity here. but anyway, it was still under warranty so i took it to bmw of honolulu. unfortunately i was very displeased with the quality of work.

apparently they replaced the evaporator ok, but they did a poor job of putting the car back together. the major screw up was they did not seat the intake manifold (engine cover) back on the throttle bodies properly. this caused a host of issues that i had no idea where it was coming from. upon acceleration I would hear a fluttering noise from the engine bay. and at idle, there was a loud buzzing noise inside the dash.

so because the intake manifold wasn't seated on the throttle bodies, there was a gap and UNFILTERED air was being sucked into the engine, hence the fluttering. ugh. and because the manifold was not seated properly, it was sitting much higher than it should have been. high enough to be right up against and touching the stress bars, hence the buzzing noise from the dash.

also i smelled gas inside my car while driving. turns out there's this rubber boot that fits on the firewall between the steering column and engine bay. the rubber boot was not reinstalled, just hanging there, hence the gas odors coming into the cabin. thankfully they seemed to put the dash back together OK as it's still pretty solid with no creaks or rattles.

i figured out, and fixed, all these problems by myself. no way would i take it back to the dealer for them to mess it up more. they also put a few nicks and dings on my door sills. my car was pristine before having service done at the dealer.

i don't know if it's just our dealer, but the bmw techs here just don't give a rip about your car and don't care about the work they do. and it's not just this car. i had a mini before the stuff they did to it there is what nightmares are made of. to make a long story short, they caused about $10k of damage to that car while working on it. no joke. could it be due to the fact that they are the only bmw dealer in the state? my car comes off warranty this june, and if at all possible I will NOT take it back there for any work whatsoever.

try checking out BME or A&A for maintenance or repair. my family takes their bmws there and have been very happy with them.

That sucks. You expect dealers to know how to work on the cars. But the M3 is a special beast. The motors are hand built at the race engine factory. The dash too should be done with care. Doesn't sound like that happened either. Not like you can go to another dealer on an Island.

[shrimp_chips]

Wow, can't believe BMW isn't taking care of you.

I had a similar situation with my VW R32. I was 2k miles out of warranty, and my door lock actuators went out. But, Volkswagen covered it under a 'good-will' service because my warranty expired recently. I thought that this was common-practice until now.

[Dannys M3]

Billy,
How quickly are you loosing the coolant? I seem to have a very slow leak and suspect the evaporator also. Last time I had the AC recharged was a year ago and the independent shop could not find the outlet to put in the dye. With the car being too hot to work on, I told him to just recharge it on the inlet which is easily located. As much as I love this car, I am disappointed in the AC.

[Rekrul]

What the fuck... makes me think twice about having this car.

[middleagedhippie]

There is a simple remedy to this and BMW cannot ignore you . . sue them in your local small claims court, without a lawyer, for an amount less than 5000.00. Depending on your state's laws, it may have no choice but to hire a lawyer to defend itself . . which means more cost than simply fixing your air conditioner for you. Bringing a lawsuit is your local small claims court is probably as easy as pie.

The way I see it, the 50K warranty is simply a contract-guarantee it will fix all problems within the first 50 K miles, but it is still responsible for its defective workmanship for problems manifesting themself AFTER 50K miles. Evaporator coils should last more than 52K. If not, it is an engineering design or negligent manufacturing problem. Why should you eat that problem? Hold BMW's feet to the fire.

I am a trial lawyer, so this stuff is second nature to me, but I have also used Small Claims court to my advantage whenever a business has not treated me fairly, which is not often given they know I am a lawyer. A while back, my phone company sold me a defective cell phone. When I tried to have it replaced or repaired under warranty, it blamed me for the defect for mishandling. So I filed a written complaint with the FCC requiring Bellsouth to respond. It never did to me but claimed to the FCC that it had tried calling me several times and I never answered . . a blatant lie because I have a secretarial staff. So now being angy I sued not only for the cost of the phone, but I brought a claim for a few thousand in attorney fees . . just for the heck of it, knowing it would have no choice but respond to the lawsuit. Believe me Bellsouth couldn't call me quick enough to resolve the issue before the scheduled hearing in Court.

BMW is the same. It doesn't want to hire a lawyer, but even if it does, its a case that can easily be won. Trial Judges who handle these cases often look with equity to the situation. Everybody knows an airconditioner should not break down within 52K miles unless there is some kind of defect. At any rate, think how much better you will feel standing up for your rights?

[middleagedhippie]

Let me guess Threadkiller, you work for corporate America where screwing the consumer is par for the Course and where you resent the consumer holding your company accountable for its actions.

Let me give you the facts. When I spend a lot of money to purchase an auto, I expect it to be fit for its intended purpose for a reasonable period of time. I need not look the other way when an auto is mechanically deficient because of design or manufacturing defects. I am not bound by a warranty the auto manufacturer gives me to induce me into buying the car. It is no more amoral to hold a corporation accountable for its defective product than it is to sue a person who rear ends your auto. I don't understand why people allow themselves to be shamed by corporate types into not standing up for their legal rights.

I had no problem asking for attorney fees in the suit against BellSouth. Although technically I wasn't entitled to them, I wanted to get their attention. I did so. Corporations are incredibly arrogant the way they treat people. There is nothing amoral about fighting fire with fire. As it is, BMW has protected itself with an arbitration clause. My only hope of getting justice would be to ensure it pays a financial price for its arrogance.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Dannys M3

Billy,
How quickly are you loosing the coolant? I seem to have a very slow leak and suspect the evaporator also. Last time I had the AC recharged was a year ago and the independent shop could not find the outlet to put in the dye. With the car being too hot to work on, I told him to just recharge it on the inlet which is easily located. As much as I love this car, I am disappointed in the AC.

The system was recharged about 10 days ago and its still cold so I assume the leak is pretty slow. The dealer and the independent was able to inject the dye but both could not find the leak in any visible location. The dealer used a sniffer to sniff out the oil coming out of the center vent and that's how they diagnosed the evaporator. The independent didn't actually use a sniffer but he said he did smell the oil coming out and said that every other place he checked looked fine so he is in agreement with the dealer that it is coming from the evaporator.

[Krozi]

Originally Posted by middleagedhippie

There is a simple remedy to this and BMW cannot ignore you . . sue them in your local small claims court, without a lawyer, for an amount less than 5000.00. Depending on your state's laws, it may have no choice but to hire a lawyer to defend itself . . which means more cost than simply fixing your air conditioner for you. Bringing a lawsuit is your local small claims court is probably as easy as pie.

The way I see it, the 50K warranty is simply a contract-guarantee it will fix all problems within the first 50 K miles, but it is still responsible for its defective workmanship for problems manifesting themself AFTER 50K miles. Evaporator coils should last more than 52K. If not, it is an engineering design or negligent manufacturing problem. Why should you eat that problem? Hold BMW's feet to the fire.

I am a trial lawyer, so this stuff is second nature to me, but I have also used Small Claims court to my advantage whenever a business has not treated me fairly, which is not often given they know I am a lawyer. A while back, my phone company sold me a defective cell phone. When I tried to have it replaced or repaired under warranty, it blamed me for the defect for mishandling. So I filed a written complaint with the FCC requiring Bellsouth to respond. It never did to me but claimed to the FCC that it had tried calling me several times and I never answered . . a blatant lie because I have a secretarial staff. So now being angy I sued not only for the cost of the phone, but I brought a claim for a few thousand in attorney fees . . just for the heck of it, knowing it would have no choice but respond to the lawsuit. Believe me Bellsouth couldn't call me quick enough to resolve the issue before the scheduled hearing in Court.

BMW is the same. It doesn't want to hire a lawyer, but even if it does, its a case that can easily be won. Trial Judges who handle these cases often look with equity to the situation. Everybody knows an airconditioner should not break down within 52K miles unless there is some kind of defect. At any rate, think how much better you will feel standing up for your rights?

Wrong hippy pizza boy. Go home.



Thread killer, you're a boss.

[Dannys M3]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

The system was recharged about 10 days ago and its still cold so I assume the leak is pretty slow. The dealer and the independent was able to inject the dye but both could not find the leak in any visible location. The dealer used a sniffer to sniff out the oil coming out of the center vent and that's how they diagnosed the evaporator. The independent didn't actually use a sniffer but he said he did smell the oil coming out and said that every other place he checked looked fine so he is in agreement with the dealer that it is coming from the evaporator.

Let me know how long yours stays cold. Mine is only cool air and like I said I had mine charged almost a year ago. Unfortunately I have way more miles and can not get a goodwill warranty repair. My car is rattle free and I worry about a complete dash disassembly, what a piss poor design. Good luck with yours.

[Krozi]

Originally Posted by thread killer

Im not trying to be an E-badass or anything. just trying to look at this as a "sane" person. Am I wrong about this, or no?

With anything I do on my customers cars, I put my word and my reputation on the line. It's the only thing I hold extremely near and dear to my heart. I also defend them fiercely. Without it(them), you do not survive in the mechanic world. I wouldn't know how that translates in 'lawyer land'.


Regards-
Thread Killer

And that's why you're a boss. I'd have no problem letting you work on my car.

[middleagedhippie]

Originally Posted by thread killer

First off, no. I am honest as the day as long. Ask any of my customers. Ask anyone in the BMW service world about me and my work ethics.

I worked at a BMW dealer for 10 years, and have dealt with all sorts of warranty calls. Being a team leader over 5 guys, I dealt with warranty calls every single day. It was almost always "do it"..... I cant tell you how many times I 'went to bat' for the customer. Why? If I don't fix something, I don't get paid. You are commission based only. You are VERY motivated to replace something.

And me? I am a business owner that prides myself at being transparent and honest. Every day is a struggle to put a bean on the table.


I'm sure you have heard this before:
Three people you cant trust in the world:

lawyers
doctors
mechanics.


at least i put 100% of my efforts to break that stereotype at my shop and on every. single. car. I touch.




Im not trying to be an E-badass or anything. just trying to look at this as a "sane" person. Am I wrong about this, or no?

With anything I do on my customers cars, I put my word and my reputation on the line. It's the only thing I hold extremely near and dear to my heart. I also defend them fiercely. Without it(them), you do not survive in the mechanic world. I wouldn't know how that translates in 'lawyer land'.


Regards-
Thread Killer

I think that's great. If everybody did their job in an ethical and fair manner, there would be far less need for lawyers and litigation. But that's not the way our world often works. Our world is one where, for example, insurance adjusters often are doing their best to screw their own insureds. Should insurance companies get away with denying legitimate claims? Of course not. Nobody thinks that. All we lawyers demand is fairness and justice.

If you put a product in the market place, stand by it if it is your negligence that caused it to fail. Do BMW owners need to rely on a government forced recall or thousands of cars failing before BMW agrees to extend its warrantly on its defectively designed and manufactured Turbos? Who should eat the thousands of dollars to repair the problem. BMW or the person who bought its car for tens of thousands of dollars to begin with? In that case, it took a while but BMW finally did the right thing.

The point is this. Just because a company makes an arbitrary decision not to cover a defect after the warranty period expires does not necessarily mean that it was the right decision or it can get away with its decision with impunity if somebody chooses to challenge it. And everybody has every right to challenge an arbitrary decision if they choose to do so and if there is good grounds for doing so. I kept my last BMW for 135K miles and sure I had problems with the car after the warranty period and ate the cost. Things wear out. But if my transmission had gone at 55K miles because, as I hear, BMW had put some defective transmissions in the e-46, you can be damn sure that BMW would have replaced that transmission free of charge . . voluntarily or involuntarily. Just an example.

[sycd]

Originally Posted by aus

OP, that blows. I just don't get why they wouldn't good will this fix.

Putting short term profits above anything else, not that surprising these days unfortunately. These types of moves will cost them a lot more in the long run.

[middleagedhippie]

Originally Posted by thread killer

The majority of all BMW recalls (like 90%+) are voluntary. remember, BMW doesnt make all the parts. they get other companies to make it at their specification. Im sure that the original game plan was fool proof- but you get companies to bid and manufacture parts for them........ so, in turn they try to do it as cheap as possible, while still putting out a good part...... sometimes "IT" happens, and BMW ends up charging back parts/labor to the manufacturer of the parts, due to them not supplying a quality part, and/or going over the determined allowed "failure" percentage.

I guess im one of those guys who just "sucks it up"......
you gotta pay to play.

Should BMW even blink twice to warranty things, when people abuse/track/modify their cars?

should turbos be warrantied when someone puts JB4/downpipes/methanol/nitrous on their car and runs 20+ PSI thru them? its out of the design window.
extrapolate that. Should the transmission be covered on that car too? Its over the maximum rated power.
Should the differential be warrantied when burnouts and aggressive driving are par for the course?


of the ONE car you own, and the very small percentage of actual people visiting a forum vs. the amount of actual BMWs on the road...... how many are out there that dont need an evaporator?

im guessing millions.
food for thought.

I agree that when somebody modifies a part, they assume the risk of warranty voiding. BMW is only responsible, only should be responsible for what it puts on the market, not for what somebody else does to its product once it is on the market.

And don't get me wrong. I LOVE my BMW. I only have a 2011 328i non-sport package. To me it is the perfect blend of comfort, sportiness and power. Its everything I need or want in a car. This e-90 is the best car I have ever owned, including compared to my E-46. Granted my old Manual Honda Prelude and small Manual Honda Accords were fun to drive, but nothing drives like this BMW.

[Boost3dm3]

does anyone know how to check if the evaporator is the cause? I have had my freon leak on me about 5 times all covered by warranty and every single time they cant find the leak and all they do is change the shraeder valve. I have already called BMWNA and they said they cant do anything but they did put a note in my records in case I need a fix after my warranty runs out in 2 months because they can see all the warranty jobs. I've also taken it to two different shops with the same result. BMWNA said I had to talk to the service manager to see if he could do anything. They have tried the electronic sniffer and UV dye multiple times and got nothing.

[808MGuy]

Got my car back from the indy shop yesterday and they did a great job for half the price of the dealer. They showed me the evap core and it definitely was leaking. You could see on the core where the dye was starting to leak out and you could smell the oil. The shop also took lots of pictures of the dash while it was apart to show me what they did. I haven't heard any squeaks or rattles from the dash so far so it seems like they did a good job of disassembly and reassembly.

[aus]

You going to send the pics to BMw to show them how crappy their evaporator is? Maybe they'll cover some of the cosy?

.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Got my car back from the indy shop yesterday and they did a great job for half the price of the dealer. They showed me the evap core and it definitely was leaking. You could see on the core where the dye was starting to leak out and you could smell the oil. The shop also took lots of pictures of the dash while it was apart to show me what they did. I haven't heard any squeaks or rattles from the dash so far so it seems like they did a good job of disassembly and reassembly.

That is great to hear about the shop. The dash is very well designed, so it should go back together as good as new if they take their time.

Post the pics if you can. I can also host them if you like. Just PM me if you need to do the latter.