Manual

[Kamen]

Mine ( as if you read in the forum - pretty much everybody else's) is the same. Switched to the ZHP knob and it didn't make a big difference at all. It's just the nature of the beast.
As far as 1-2nd shifts, doubt if any changes of the gear lever or knob can help.
Changed the transmission fluid myself at 36k miles. Not only that it came out super clear and new looking, but it also made no difference in the shifting

[MikeyDawg]

I've seen complaints about "notchy shifting" but haven't really noticed it myself on my e90/MT with 60k miles.

Still going to change the trans fluid soon since it's due.

I've owned 2 MT Nissans (240sx) and 2 MT Hondas (Prelude and S2k) and really haven't noticed a major degradation in shifting or the gearbox compared to those cars.

How many miles OP and when was MT fluid flushed last?

[ryguy0492]

^^^ I came to comment the same thing, I hear about "notchy" shifting all the time here, is it not supposed to feel notchy? Mine certainly does. It's not a civic..

My old e36 m3 with a refresh kit and DSSR felt amazing, my e92 m3 stock feels just a tiny bit better, and softer. Something like a 997's shifter is perfect

[Bartledoo]

A much heavier and slightly shorter shift knob does wonders for this transmission. The rubbery feel disappears and the annoying 1-2 shift is a thing of the past, as are the extremely long throws.

[EricSMG]

My previous E90M with 30k miles was sublime - thought the shiftier was one of the best parts of the car to be honest. Smooth, refined, short and direct with a nice heavy neutral return spring... pretty much ideal.

I think you need to refresh your stock setup, not modify it.

[MikeyDawg]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

A much heavier and slightly shorter shift knob does wonders for this transmission. The rubbery feel disappears and the annoying 1-2 shift is a thing of the past, as are the extremely long throws.

Is the F10 M5 setup considered the best option to head in this direction?

That is what I was planning on going with sometime this year to shorten the throws.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

My previous E90M with 30k miles was sublime - thought the shiftier was one of the best parts of the car to be honest. Smooth, refined, short and direct with a nice heavy neutral return spring... pretty much ideal.

I think you need to refresh your stock setup, not modify it.

Were you the first owner? I wonder if the car already had some shifter upgrades because I've never heard anyone say the shifter was one of the best parts of the car. I've owned mine from 13k miles and the shifter never felt good until it was upgraded.

Originally Posted by MikeyDawg

Is the F10 M5 setup considered the best option to head in this direction?

That is what I was planning on going with sometime this year to shorten the throws.

For the oem look it is definitely the best option. I wanted something heavier so I got a leather wrapped UUC knob. It doesn't have the lights, but I don't really need them.

[DanMpower]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Were you the first owner? I wonder if the car already had some shifter upgrades because I've never heard anyone say the shifter was one of the best parts of the car. I've owned mine from 13k miles and the shifter never felt good until it was upgraded.



For the oem look it is definitely the best option. I wanted something heavier so I got a leather wrapped UUC knob. It doesn't have the lights, but I don't really need them.

Yeah that's what I was thinking when I read the post, I've driven pretty much almost all manual variants of the M3, starting with the E36 to the F80 and the shifter all had a few things in common. Rubbery, notchy and imprecise feeling...

Although I'm a manual driver through and through, I could not enjoy driving a manual M car. I really dislike the shifting action on my E39 M5 as well, this is even after installing the Turner rebuild/upgrade kit on it...it's the worst part of an absolutely brilliant car.

I'm hoping one day I could drive an Autosolutions equipped M3, I really want to change my mind which would give me hope of owning a manual E46 or E9x one day.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Were you the first owner? I wonder if the car already had some shifter upgrades because I've never heard anyone say the shifter was one of the best parts of the car. I've owned mine from 13k miles and the shifter never felt good until it was upgraded.

Not the first owner but I'd be shocked if the shifter wasn't stock. It felt like every other E9XM manual I've driven. It feels almost identical as my F80's (which is one of the best manuals ever designed, in my opinion)... just slightly more notchy (than the F80). I can't fathom how someone wouldn't like a fresh, stock, E9XM shifter. It may not be the best shifter in the world but it's quite good and I would never consider "upgrading" it. Literally the last thing I would touch on that car.

In my experience, aftermarket shifters/mods always reduce refinement and increase directness which I generally don't like. They can reduce slop, which is good (E9XM has virtually zero slop, stock, so nothing to gain there), but always at the expense of refinement. I think most people mislabel refinement as rubbery, to be honest. The E9XM shifter is very refined but it is not at all rubbery. You know exactly when it's in gear but without any NVH.

Curious, what modification(s) did you make to your shifter?


Edit 1 - out of all the M3s, the E46M is by far the worst. The E9XM is WAY WAY better out of the box. (getrag vs ZF, respectively)
Edit 2 - have you driven an F8XM manual? If so, do you find that rubbery? If so then we have dramatically opposing views of what a good shifter feels like in which case I can see why you wouldn't like the E9XM shifter (cuz largely the same)

Originally Posted by M and Ms

to the F80 and the shifter all had a few things in common. Rubbery, notchy and imprecise feeling...

Inconceivable to me. It's literally none of those things... not even close. It is very precise, and the absolute epitome of not notchy.

You sure you mean F80? The shifter in this thing is absolutely sublime, seriously.

Again, I think you're calling refinement "rubbery". Very different things.

[DanMpower]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Inconceivable to me. It's literally none of those things... not even close. It is very precise, and the absolute epitome of not notchy.

You sure you mean F80? The shifter in this thing is absolutely sublime, seriously.

Again, I think you're calling refinement "rubbery". Very different things.

To be fair the F8x was definitely the better of the M car shifters I've driven but still FAR from being an excellent shifter. It was average at best.

When I say rubbery, I mean it has a very vague feeling. Row the gears in a GT350, BRZ/FRS, New Miata, a newer P car etc then try it in the F8x. You will notice immediately how vague the F8x shift action feels. In fact, a co-worker and I was just discussing this a month ago, we jumped from a manual M4 into a base model Jetta S and we both agreed the Jetta has a better shifter feel which was disappointing since the Jetta was a sub 20k car.

When I say notchy, all those cars I've mentioned above will just "slip" into gear, point it into the gear you wish and the transmission almost feels like it sucks the shifter into the slot. With the F8x and all the previous manual M cars I've driven, it feels like it resists and fights you sometimes, you have to give it some effort for it to go in. It doesn't have that confidence inspiring or satisfying engagement that truly makes driving a manual car fun. If I had to get a manual M car, the F8x like I said is definitely the better of the bunch but still not satisfying enough for me to make the switch.

[SAMM3Y]

I spent the morning installing the turner short shift kit and I'm overall very happy with it. I opted to install the rally shift lever initially and reduced the lower shift lever to throw the shortest throw. Which according to turner is a 64% reduction in throw against stock. So with the reduced throw and the extra leverage of the longer shift lever the gearbox feels awesome!

Turner didn't explicitly say to cut the rubber shifter boot but I opted to for the following reasons.

1 - getting the lower seal over the new aluminum bracket would be close to impossible without pulling off the center console in the car and or dropping the shifter arm off the transmission.

2- adjusting or switching out the longer shift lever really isn't possible with the unmodified boot in there and it's a real pain to get back in.

3- the rubber itself has started to degrade and its a sticky mess so the less I had to mess with it the better.

Quality of the kit seems really good, when I drop the transmission to change the clutch I'll probably try and source some stiffer shift arm bushings as the stock OEM ones seem to be a bit soft and squishy which is where a lot of the rubbery feel comes from. I have new OEM bush but they're not any better. I'll have to source an old leather boot and ring to cut up if I'm gonna keep the rally shifter in there just to complete the look.

But in the last couple of hundred miles, I've changed the motor mounts, flushed the tranny and installed this kit, it's like a totally different car, it shifts so nicely.

Pics two and three show 1st and 2nd gear. Just showing the length of throw with extended lever

[SAMM3Y]

I should also mention with the standard lever adaptor they supply as well as the rally one you can adjust the height upto 22mm. So with the extra leverage that would provide coupled with a shorter throw and a weighted zhp or whatever shift knob, it would make for a killer combination if you didn't wanna go racecar with the rally shifter.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by M and Ms

To be fair the F8x was definitely the better of the M car shifters I've driven but still FAR from being an excellent shifter. It was average at best.

When I say rubbery, I mean it has a very vague feeling. Row the gears in a GT350, BRZ/FRS, New Miata, a newer P car etc then try it in the F8x. You will notice immediately how vague the F8x shift action feels. In fact, a co-worker and I was just discussing this a month ago, we jumped from a manual M4 into a base model Jetta S and we both agreed the Jetta has a better shifter feel which was disappointing since the Jetta was a sub 20k car.

When I say notchy, all those cars I've mentioned above will just "slip" into gear, point it into the gear you wish and the transmission almost feels like it sucks the shifter into the slot. With the F8x and all the previous manual M cars I've driven, it feels like it resists and fights you sometimes, you have to give it some effort for it to go in. It doesn't have that confidence inspiring or satisfying engagement that truly makes driving a manual car fun. If I had to get a manual M car, the F8x like I said is definitely the better of the bunch but still not satisfying enough for me to make the switch.

Good post and thanks for the clarification.

For the record, I owned a 2017 Mustang GT/PP manual (I'm thinking same trans/shifter as the GT350/R?) and that shifter was killer! BUT - it also had a slight buzz to it and thus lacked the refinement you get in premium cars, to be expected. The GTI also has a killer shifter. Both of these cars are good in ways that the E90/F80 are not but then the E90/F80 are good in ways that the others are not. And so I'd say there are numerous characteristics that make a great shifter, and many formulas exist.

Yes, I would say the E90/F80 shifters have a muted feel (what you're calling vague) and I absolutely love that about them. Any more "feel" detracts from the driving experience for me - I don't want to ever think about the shifter. Further, I do agree that the BMW manuals can/do require some effort to get into gear - this is somewhat annoying I'll admit, but not enough to outweigh the other great characteristics that I love. I have no problem knowing when the E90/F80 is in gear and so I don't find anything lacking and thus no desire to upgrade, if that makes sense.

So - it seems that we now understand each other and just simply have differing tastes, which is great. I like my shifters heavy, refined and somewhat vague and you like them direct and positive. And this is why I LOVE the E9XM shifter (even though I have major issues with its trans ratios but that's for a different discussion).

For the record, I actually like my steering just like I like my shifters - heavy, muted and refined. To much direct feedback actually distracts me and thus reduces my enjoyment behind the wheel. The older I get (43 now) the more this becomes true although I always had this preference even back in my 20's when I was driving E36Ms.

Good discussion.