Won ebay auction at 60K for E90 M3, BMW of Lincoln refusing to honor

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by chakalakasp

For one thing, rarely will a lawyer out and out lie about a verifiable fact that they were aware of (and can be proven they were aware of) in a certified legal letter.

Not true...how many times have you seen a lawyer give an interview about how innocent his client was and then they guy pleads guilt months later?

They have a word for it "advocating" ...we call it lying

[av8thor]

Originally Posted by Elisabeth

While this thread technically fits the basic definition of libel, this is not an actual circulated medium. Users must register to post here, or actively seek out information from this source.

Also, I believe that in order to sue for libel, you must first be able to prove that the individual actually printed/published misleading or false information. As I stated earlier, I feel there was really no motive for Dooma to begin this thread with fake info; he was merely seeking advice for a situation that occurred on eBay.

A few minutes ago, the thought also occurred that most of the publicity was not actually Ken's fault. Some of us forwarded this thread to other sources (fark.com, autoblog.com, consumerist.com, The Lincoln Journal Star, etc. etc.), and spread the word. I fail to see how they expect to prosecute this case with so many anonymous individuals involved.

And I'm pretty sure (not a lawyer but I was a Journalism major at one point) that BMWoL and VTAIG would have to prove damages in order to successfuly pursue a lawsuit for libel. According to some sources, business has never been better for Husker, so I'm not sure this approach would hold much water. Sounds more like saber rattling to me.

Still the question remains, why is this going on so long?

[par4bmw]

As strange as the story is, it sure seams real to me. Both attorneys are real, just search for them. Why would Ken pay for an attorney if he did not need it? My guess, only a guess, is that Husker is now trying to recover from their original blunders by bringing in new guns to try and seek damages.

Ken,
Sorry to jump the gun when I passed on congrats earlier. Hang in there. You have a lot of people behind you.

[advancedlogic]

Originally Posted by 750li

I have been reading all these posts from the beginning. I have to say that I have laughed many times at the jokes that were made. At this point in time I feel bad for what ken is going through. we should all remember the the forum thread started with the line . "won ebay auction ....and bmw of lincoln refusing to honor." as a business man and bmw driver for over fifteen years I have bought, arranged financing and ordered cars with a telephone call to my dealer confirming receipt of an email requesting the options and colors i wanted. Husker's attorney could have called Ken's lawyer and said we want to put this behind us and move on. They could have agreed on financing, terms payment etc and this forum would have ended 50 or more pages ago. The dealer could have turned this into a HUGE promotion for themselves brought ken in with local press tv, bmw club etc to see Ken take delivery of the famous ebay M3, and say here is How Husker turned this into a happy ending.

Instead they feel discrediting ken is the way to go. They are trying to argue that ken can not afford the car or does not have the financing to do so. And now the argument is that HE did not abide by the TERMS of the AUCTION. IMO this is bs. To date Ken has turned down offers of members willing to paypal him money. If you look at the numbers that this forum has generated ken could easily have received enough in donations to pay for a M3 for him , his lawyer and have money left over! I am still hoping that ken will take a paypal donation. No one can argue that he has not provided all of us with quite an interesting read. Good Luck Ken!!!

That's the kind of behavior that lends credence to his story. He's repeatedly turned down what would have been an outpouring of cash (mine included). In my opinion, I don't believe his ability to pay, or his intentions, are an issue for debate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m32

Up to this point, Ken has left 100% of his 145 e-bay clients with positive experiences, as both a seller and buyer of goods. I don't think he'd jeaporize 5 years of ebaying on a BS bid. He obviously recognized the great pricing on an E90 M3, and took a chance. Any reasonable ebayer has done the same. In this instance, he won. That it has reached such a crecendo of support is amazing to witness.

[av8thor]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I have to admit this thought has crossed my mind, but I know for a fact philippek is the real deal and since he's offered to handle the "re-delievery" I'm thinking Ken is, in fact, for real. I've even asked philippek to confirm his involvement on another forum and gotten a confirmation from him.

Well with any controversy this size, somebody has to point at the shadowy figures on the Grassy Knoll. Oliver Stone was busy so I thought I'd step in.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by par4bmw

As strange as the story is, it sure seams real to me. Both attorneys are real, just search for them. Why would Ken pay for an attorney if he did not need it? My guess, only a guess, is that Husker is now trying to recover from their original blunders by bringing in new guns to try and seek damages.

Ken,
Sorry to jump the gun when I passed on congrats earlier. Hang in there. You have a lot of people behind you.

Sure the names are real. But are they really posting? I find it very peculiar that attorneys are posting on a message board with respect to a very high profile matter that is far from resolved.

Folks get real comfortable on message boards and very quickly let their guard down. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just very practical and literal. Not everything you see, hear, read, feel can be taken at face value. Again, I could be wrong. It happened once back in 1977 when I...

Seriously, stay tuned for a shocker.

[BMW M5 Power]

saw your edit, but how do you personally know first-hand if payment was sent, but not "recieved" ??[/QUOTE]


I don't know if payment was sent or not. I was told that a Credit card was offered on Monday during a conversation and that was acceptable. Don't know the circumstances surrounding that decision. Some state Fil squashed that himself, whatever. A no condition agreement was entered into and a 72 hour deadline set. That passed and now another 72 hour deadline has been set. That is all I know and is clearly outlined in the letters that were posted by legal counsel verifying what I said earlier. BUt, clearly you are correct, I have NO knowledge of the status of funds received or not. I am sure there would be a record posted here by Ken or his council if funds were in fact received. That would certainly verify the truth here.

After my visit, believe me they want the car gone and for Ken to get it. The other "libeil" matter with the local Husker Auto Group counsel letter was news to me and clearly as outside this deal happening as the talk of retreiving legal fees from Husker when this is over. Different matters. Lets get the deal done first.

Jeff

[ImJustSayin']

Am I the only one to notice that Husker is making a big deal about Dooma's choice of going with a lease ... but the leasing company Dooma's using (leasecompare) is listed on the financing section of the auction page?

Also, there's some conflicting verbiage about dates on the auction (emphasis mine):

Taxes and Fees
All buyers will be charged documentary fees. Our documentation fee is $399. All sales transactions must be completed within 72 hours of auction close. You can pay by certified check, wire transfer, personal check (subject to bank / dealership) approval or you can obtain financing with our dealership.

But then in the next section it says:

Auction Policies
Customers with zero or negative feedback on eBay Motors please contact us prior to bidding. Otherwise, we reserve the right to cancel your bid. Understand this is only to protect the integrity of the auction. Winning bidder must contact the dealership within 24 hours of the auction close and the purchase transaction completed within 7 calendar days. We reserve the right to re-list or sell the vehicle in the event of a non-paying bidder.

With conflicting information, you have to give the buyer the longest time period mentioned. Dooma's made good faith efforts from what I can see ... and he's even using an approved financing source.

The dealer's legal eagles are trying to muddy the issue by saying Duma isn't holding up his end of the bargain ... but the truth is printed in black and white in the auction page itself ... and can't be denied.

Here's the link to the auction for reference. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...233277471&rd=1

Scroll down to the "Financing" and "Terms" sections.

[advancedlogic]

Originally Posted by -RAC

I am not sure but I don't think some of those cases would apply. You would still have to prove intent and prove that what was being written were lies. Didn't the BMW club president guy post that the Dealer's internet guy did call and say the very same thing that Dooma posted?




I am just wondering if one would be able to get a trail by jury? Do you really think a dealership would get a sympathetic jury?

Ken has been very methodical and ethical in his postings. I don't think he has anything to worry about. The crafters of the videos, posters, images, etc. that portray one of the parties (along with the vioce-over with clear intent) may not be as insulated. With 2 experienced attorneys representing a subsidiary entity of a company with hundreds of millions in assets perusing these forums, I'm hoping to assist in minimizing the exposure risk of the well intentioned.

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by advancedlogic

That's the kind of behavior that lends credence to his story. He's repeatedly turned down what would have been an outpouring of cash (mine included). In my opinion, I don't believe his ability to pay, or his intentions, are an issue for debate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m32

Up to this point, Ken has left 100% of his 145 e-bay clients with positive experiences, as both a seller and buyer of goods. I don't think he'd jeaporize 5 years of ebaying on a BS bid. He obviously recognized the great pricing on an E90 M3, and took a chance. Any reasonable ebayer has done the same. In this instance, he won. That it has reached such a crecendo of support is amazing to witness.

+1

great point and this is the first time mentioned...

[-RAC]

Originally Posted by advancedlogic

Ken has been very methodical and ethical in his postings. I don't think he has anything to worry about. The crafters of the videos, posters, images, etc. that portray one of the parties (along with the vioce-over with clear intent) may not be as insulated. With 2 experienced attorneys representing a subsidiary entity of a company with hundreds of millions in assets perusing these forums, I'm hoping to assist in minimizing the exposure risk of the well intentioned.

Yes I think Dooma would be ok. As for the others it would still be a hard road for the dealership. The others can claim its was a parody or satire and we do have a Supreme Court ruling on that issue. Just ask Larry Flint. Still it could get interesting.

[MalibuBimmer]

With the vB software doesn't the entire thread self-erase after 999,999 views?

[Likerock]

Been watching all week. This has been my entertainment while at work. Anyone notice that the new "deadline" takes us to April 1st? Eh, I'm still eager to see how this turns out.

Also I found out why Ebay hasn't responded:
http://time-blog.com/work_in_progres...carpet_sk.html

[par4bmw]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Sure the names are real. But are they really posting? I find it very peculiar that attorneys are posting on a message board with respect to a very high profile matter that is far from resolved.

Folks get real comfortable on message boards and very quickly let their guard down. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just very practical and literal. Not everything you see, hear, read, feel can be taken at face value. Again, I could be wrong. It happened once back in 1977 when I...

Seriously, stay tuned for a shocker.

It would make for a very intriguing story, but I guess I am foolish and think it is not a fictional plot.

The Lincoln Journal Star had this in their article:

"In an interview Tuesday, Tanisaka’s lawyer, Scott Tepper, said he couldn’t comment because discussions with the dealership were still going on.

Ryan Mathis, sales manager for Husker Auto Group, acknowledged Monday the dealership had agreed to sell the car to Tanisaka."

So they at least talked to Tepper. I can not think of how a reputable attorney could play along with a hoax.

Hopefully Ken can get us an update soon. Good luck Ken.

[ImJustSayin']

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

With the vB software doesn't the entire thread self-erase after 999,999 views?

It's PHP on a *nix server ... it'll be fine.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by par4bmw

I can not think of how a reputable attorney could play along with a hoax.

...unless he didn't realize he was party to said hoax...

[Totally 80's]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Sure the names are real. But are they really posting? I find it very peculiar that attorneys are posting on a message board with respect to a very high profile matter that is far from resolved.

Folks get real comfortable on message boards and very quickly let their guard down. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just very practical and literal. Not everything you see, hear, read, feel can be taken at face value. Again, I could be wrong. It happened once back in 1977 when I...

Seriously, stay tuned for a shocker.

Rob, As a reader since Autoblog first linked up... Can I take your ideas one step further and add that Tuesday is April Fools Day?! Have we been had?

The timing is just too obvious and the story is just getting too bizarre.

If I'm right, remember you heard it here first!

[par4bmw]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

...unless he didn't realize he was party to said hoax...

Like I said, it would be an incredible story. The 4/1 deadline does add a nice little twist.

[-RAC]

it would be the greatest April Fools Day joke ever.

[jchan2]

Hmm.. Tuesday is Apr. 1..
Weird.. The epic tale of Dooma's BMW M3 continues..

[advancedlogic]

All the speculations as to who Ken is, is this a fictional account, fake attorney interviews, plots, etc. are quite an interesting hypothesis, but as stated previously, quite doubtful considering Ken's 5 year Ebay history, the 145 verifiably smooth transactions, the national exposure, dealer/attorney interviews, offers and counteroffers, and the like.

What I surmise has happened is that, considering the advanced negotiation stages, stance, inferences, monitorings, internet vigilantes, and the like that has transpired, perhaps it has been advised that postings within this medium may be misinterpreted and thusly used later.

Official statements have set C.O.B. Monday as the cutoff date. Now this is purely speculatory on my part, but perhaps then we may here something. Keep in mind that there are very real lives involved with very real consequences if law isn't followed to the "T". Before the conspiracy theorists poison the outpouring of support witnessed, I'd like to simply offer the preceeding point of view.

[Desert Rat]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Had Ken's offer been for the "Buy It Now" price, or for something close to MSRP, I have zero doubt in my mind that Husker would have readily accepted financing from whatever source Ken lined up, packed the M3 on the shipping truck, and closed out the deal. Granted, there are mitigating factors, such as the harassment the dealer endured, but that is not something the buyer engaged in or encouraged in any way. The crux of the matter remains that the dealer is looking for an escape because of the amount of the financing, not because of the source.

I'm sure you are correct that there would have never been a problem had Ken gone for the "Buy It Now" option.

Is the dealership looking for an out? You have read the same pages as me and have come to a different conclusion. One thing is for sure, none of us reading all this really know the true story. I'm sure none of the parties involved could give a 100% accurate recall of everything that has happened as the mind twists things during a heated battle and recollection can be selective.

I do know if I had gone through what Ken has I would be fed up long ago and would have no desire to purchase this vehicle.