Track forum general chit chat.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I’d want a spare set of pads with me and newish ones on the car

That section from 12 to 20 never lets the brakes rest

And turn 19 is way faster than you think it is (plus there's a crap ton of runoff room if you early it), so your braking into 20 is super important.

[kyippee]

@redpriest and I's cars had some sexy time together today. When are we gonna be on track together?

[M3 Number 86]

When it's time for this

https://instagram.com/p/BtnI9jkhRvm/

[macdude357]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

@redpriest and I's cars had some sexy time together today. When are we gonna be on track together?

That's easy. Just come out for the Bimmer Challenge events.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by macdude357

That's easy. Just come out for the Bimmer Challenge events.

Ok... I gotta take a look at when the next ones in Thunderhill/Laguna Seca/Sonoma are. Never been to SoCal tracks and it's far

I was thinking of starting off in a local "challenge" that frequents NorCal tracks instead

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by admranger

And turn 19 is way faster than you think it is (plus there's a crap ton of runoff room if you early it), so your braking into 20 is super important.

Keep in mind T20 is > 90 degrees. If you forget there's sausage curving that will give you a gentle reminder.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Keep in mind T20 is > 90 degrees. If you forget there's sausage curving that will give you a gentle reminder.

Yep. 2nd most important turn on the track after turn 11. I used the red/white part of the track a lot there.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

going back to NT01....let's see how it plays out next week

the new american cars for the past few years have been pretty awesome. I'd have to redo the whole interior though with new seats, steering wheel, alcantara bits of the dash, and use an Aim display or something lol

Narrator: it didn't play out very well

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

@redpriest and I's cars had some sexy time together today. When are we gonna be on track together?

Nice heh, was getting e92 ready for this year. Tired of triggering ABS Icing mode in my e46.

I've toned down my track schedule last year and probably this year to mostly just doing Bimmer Challenge events.

Although occasionally I'll throw in a Thunderhill day here or there. Sonoma only if I have to; Laguna if I have brake pads to spare lol.

The issue I had is that my e46 really doesn't pass sound in any NorCal track. I had to end my last Thunderhill day early because I was pegged doing 106 dB.

My e92 is whisper quiet by comparison.

[OG Shark]

What’s the jump like from a NT01 to something like a pirelli dh? Breakaway characteristics?

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jktx

What’s the jump like from a NT01 to something like a pirelli dh? Breakaway characteristics?

Pirelli DH communicate really well. They are NOT silent and don’t just snap and lose grip out of the blue. You know where they are. As they start to let go, I am never surprised by it and they are civilized. They are an amazing tire.

When you say “what’s the jump”, do you mean how much time can you drop? The time drop from NT01 to DH is huge. On a 2.7 mile track like Buttonwillow, it could be 6+ seconds. An NT01 is old tire technology. It’s an R-Comp, but these days there are several 200TW tires that can put in just about the same lap times. Let’s look it this way: A Hankook TD was at least 2 seconds faster than NT01. An R1S is at least 2 seconds faster than TD. A DH is 2 seconds faster than R1S. So it’s gotta be 6 seconds. And big disclaimer: I’m talking about new tires. Not scrubs. You never know what you’re getting with scrubs. (I’ve run many sets of scrubs—-some great, some not remotely great.)

But remember, taking advantage of this grip isn’t instant. It takes adaptation. The tires allow you to brake later and corner faster. These are not easy things to change quickly. Over time, you get used to braking zones and the feel of the car in corners. Simply throwing that out the window because you have different tires is something most amateurs cannot do instantly. I just had a conversation on this exact topic yesterday. A friend of mine is a great driver but had never run DH. He was at Buttonwillow in a low power Porsche 964 and his street tires were near being done. After we chatted, he went into the tire shop and they had his size in DH. He went for it. He dropped 3 seconds instantly and totally admitted he wasn’t at the edge of what the tires could do. He said the car was acting like it was bored. His exact text quote to me was, “Gotta learn how to drive on them. Limits don’t exist.” What he was saying is that he can brake so late on the tire, he couldn’t find the limit. And the car seemed to take any amount of speed in Riverside (high speed wide rounder) to the point that he was having to use gears he’s never used before there. So, for an enthusiast/amateur, it takes time to work up to what the DH tires can truly do. But the longer you take to adapt, the more the grip disappears because DH don’t stay super high grip forever. I have said many times to my friends that it’s really on your second set of slicks that you really get fast. The first set, you’re just getting used to what they can do.

If you’re not in a hurry, I think the best recipe for success is to work up to the DH gradually by running better and better tires. That way, you won’t be shocked by what the DH can do, and be wasting the money trying to figure them out. A good path from NT01 to DH could be Hoosier R7, BFGoodrich R1S, Pirelli DH scrubs, Pirelli DH new.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Pirelli DH communicate really well. They are NOT silent and don’t just snap and lose grip out of the blue. You know where they are. As they start to let go, I am never surprised by it and they are civilized. They are an amazing tire.

When you say “what’s the jump”, do you mean how much time can you drop? The time drop from NT01 to DH is huge. On a 2.7 mile track like Buttonwillow, it could be 6+ seconds. An NT01 is old tire technology. It’s an R-Comp, but these days there are several 200TW tires that can put in just about the same lap times. Let’s look it this way: A Hankook TD was at least 2 seconds faster than NT01. An R1S is at least 2 seconds faster than TD. A DH is 2 seconds faster than R1S. So it’s gotta be 6 seconds. And big disclaimer: I’m talking about new tires. Not scrubs. You never know what you’re getting with scrubs. (I’ve run many sets of scrubs—-some great, some not remotely great.)

But remember, taking advantage of this grip isn’t instant. It takes adaptation. The tires allow you to brake later and corner faster. These are not easy things to change quickly. Over time, you get used to braking zones and the feel of the car in corners. Simply throwing that out the window because you have different tires is something most amateurs cannot do instantly. I just had a conversation on this exact topic yesterday. A friend of mine is a great driver but had never run DH. He was at Buttonwillow in a low power Porsche 964 and his street tires were near being done. After we chatted, he went into the tire shop and they had his size in DH. He went for it. He dropped 3 seconds instantly and totally admitted he wasn’t at the edge of what the tires could do. He said the car was acting like it was bored. His exact text quote to me was, “Gotta learn how to drive on them. Limits don’t exist.” What he was saying is that he can brake so late on the tire, he couldn’t find the limit. And the car seemed to take any amount of speed in Riverside (high speed wide rounder) to the point that he was having to use gears he’s never used before there. So, for an enthusiast/amateur, it takes time to work up to what the DH tires can truly do. But the longer you take to adapt, the more the grip disappears because DH don’t stay super high grip forever. I have said many times to my friends that it’s really on your second set of slicks that you really get fast. The first set, you’re just getting used to what they can do.

If you’re not in a hurry, I think the best recipe for success is to work up to the DH gradually by running better and better tires. That way, you won’t be shocked by what the DH can do, and be wasting the money trying to figure them out. A good path from NT01 to DH could be Hoosier R7, BFGoodrich R1S, Pirelli DH scrubs, Pirelli DH new.

That's awesome - thank you very much for that reply. Their level of communication was by biggest question - was curious how friendly they are. Good to hear your positive feedback on this.

Honestly I hadn't really considered how big the time gap between the two is & didn't realize there are a few steps kind of in between. I'm just starting to look at a bump in tires as a next possible move after I get well sorted and comfortable with my new suspension & brakes on NT01's. I'm definitely not in a hurry - I like the path you described. Will start to look at this for when it is time to move up in tires.

Thanks!!!

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by jktx

That's awesome - thank you very much for that reply. Their level of communication was by biggest question - was curious how friendly they are. Good to hear your positive feedback on this.

Honestly I hadn't really considered how big the time gap between the two is & didn't realize there are a few steps kind of in between. I'm just starting to look at a bump in tires as a next possible move after I get well sorted and comfortable with my new suspension & brakes on NT01's. I'm definitely not in a hurry - I like the path you described. Will start to look at this for when it is time to move up in tires.

Thanks!!!

FWIW, I'd stay on NT01's as long as you are still improving.

I have always viewed mods and tires as something you earn.

I made the jump to NT01's a bit early in my driving career, but I stayed on for 2+ years. At TWS, a good time was about 2:00. Each year, I was dropping 2-3 seconds on those tires getting to about 1:56 comfortably. Then I tried some Z214's and was able to knock out a 1:53 without a lot of effort. Eventually, I got to 1:51's and earned my aero badge. Ran a 1:49.9 and earned my A7 badge. I eventually set the TT3 track record with a 1:47.5 on Z214's and 1:48.0 on A7's. When I would go back to NT01's I was able to run in 1:51's.

My point is that as long as times are dropping and you're improving stay on slower tires.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

FWIW, I'd stay on NT01's as long as you are still improving.

I have always viewed mods and tires as something you earn.

I made the jump to NT01's a bit early in my driving career, but I stayed on for 2+ years. At TWS, a good time was about 2:00. Each year, I was dropping 2-3 seconds on those tires getting to about 1:56 comfortably. Then I tried some Z214's and was able to knock out a 1:53 without a lot of effort. Eventually, I got to 1:51's and earned my aero badge. Ran a 1:49.9 and earned my A7 badge. I eventually set the TT3 track record with a 1:47.5 on Z214's and 1:48.0 on A7's. When I would go back to NT01's I was able to run in 1:51's.

My point is that as long as times are dropping and you're improving stay on slower tires.

Thank you for the advice & I 100% agree. I do plan to stay on the NT01's until I feel like I can consistently get the most out of them as I can. Just like to get an idea of possible moves to make in the future once I am ready - keeps my mind occupied (little bit of ocd...). For what it is worth I'm doing my first round of "major" performance upgrades (suspension & bbk) - I definitely don't want to throw a tire change into the mix until I'm completely comfortable with my level of understanding of the new setup.

Thanks!

[dogbone]

I also do not advocate being in a hurry to move up. I’ve always said that I’ve never been in a hurry to go fast. It was 4 years before I tried any kind of slick, and that first slick was a Michelin endurance slick—-wasn’t fast. 5 years in, I tried Yoko slicks. They were nice. It was almost 6 years and 110+ track days that I tried DH scrubs.

I didn’t mention Z214 because they topped out at 275 size which was not wide enough for me. And A7 is fast but can only run a couple hot time trial-style laps before they get greasy. R7 and R1S can run a lot of laps in a row.

In my experience, E9x M3s punish narrow front tires. And the softer the tire is, the more quickly you’ll see that punishment show up, so I have worked hard over the years to fit the fattest rubber possible up front. After all these years, I’m still fighting the battle. (The JRZ suspension is fine, but blower air intake keeps getting rubbed by the wide front tires. I think I have a plan to permanently fix it.....we’ll see....)

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I also do not advocate being in a hurry to move up. I’ve always said that I’ve never been in a hurry to go fast. It was 4 years before I tried any kind of slick, and that first slick was a Michelin endurance slick—-wasn’t fast. 5 years in, I tried Yoko slicks. They were nice. It was almost 6 years and 110+ track days that I tried DH scrubs.

I didn’t mention Z214 because they topped out at 275 size which was not wide enough for me. And A7 is fast but can only run a couple hot time trial-style laps before they get greasy. R7 and R1S can run a lot of laps in a row.

In my experience, E9x M3s punish narrow front tires. And the softer the tire is, the more quickly you’ll see that punishment show up, so I have worked hard over the years to fit the fattest rubber possible up front. After all these years, I’m still fighting the battle. (The JRZ suspension is fine, but blower air intake keeps getting rubbed by the wide front tires. I think I have a plan to permanently fix it.....we’ll see....)

Did you ever run the JRZ without the supercharger - if so how wide of a front tire were you able to use? I'm going with the JRZ Pro RS as well & curious how much room there will be. Would be pretty nice being able to stick with NT01's & being able to go up the the next size in 18" - but think that might be too big (305/35/18). Would require an investment in 18x11 so could be flexible in offset - also can run plenty of camber & to hell with the fender liners if need be. I do really like the NT01's so would be pretty cool to be able to run them wider all around.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jktx

Did you ever run the JRZ without the supercharger - if so how wide of a front tire were you able to use? I'm going with the JRZ Pro RS as well & curious how much room there will be. Would be pretty nice being able to stick with NT01's & being able to go up the the next size in 18" - but think that might be too big (305/35/18). Would require an investment in 18x11 so could be flexible in offset - also can run plenty of camber & to hell with the fender liners if need be. I do really like the NT01's so would be pretty cool to be able to run them wider all around.

Supercharger was first. JRZ came later. The JRZ allows MANY more options for width over stock but you gotta get creative so you can raise the spring perch (ie. no helper springs, 5” springs). The ESS supercharger bracket/intake system allows for fatter tires than my VF.

I’m running 305/645/18 Pirelli DH up front. Pirellis do not run wide though. I don’t know anything about 305 NT01. I’ve only seen people run 275.

A couple comparison metrics to confuse you :
-the 285/30/18 R1S is actually sliiiiiightly wider than a 305 Pirelli DH.
-the 285/30/18 R1S is wider than 295 Hoosier A7.
-300 Yoko slick is the fattest tire ever put on my car. Had to roll the rear fender to fit it and no way to put that in front.

[roastbeef]

At what point do you just start cutting and reinforcing to fit any 315 tire you want up front? You're already in the unlimited class for any event... might as well demolish them.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

At what point do you just start cutting and reinforcing to fit any 315 tire you want up front? You're already in the unlimited class for any event... might as well demolish them.

Of course there are wide body kits that exist already or you could just chop up the car and have a body shop deal with it. At the moment, I just don’t want the car to look like that.

If PURE competition were the only goal, I’m driving the wrong car—too big, too heavy, wrong power plant with the supercharger in there. And it’s worth saying again, that the car is still faster than me in it’s current state. There’s still room for me to grow as a driver.

To my eyes, my car is beautiful. For the time being, I’d like to keep it that way. (Of course, I’d throw carbon doors on it in a second if they were easily available. But I’d probably get the doors wrapped or painted.)

[roastbeef]

I'm more in the mindset of not using widebody kits and cutting/reinforcing the inner frame or bashing in the body. Hehe

[M3 Number 86]

Anybody use a seat cushion on their bucket seat to raise it a bit?

I have a fixed mounted style and my bride seat was perfect (length and height). Switching back to spg, just switching up the seat, it's a tad far and low than I want. I'm already and the highest setting and can't move my seat forward or else it'll sit too close.

I find I can't drive as aggressive being too low and not having 100% visibility plus reaching for a wheel a little more. Maybe I should wear a thick sweater and thick pants lol

Anyone use some sort of shim or rail or cushion to make minor tweaks to seat position?

[roastbeef]

You could probably get some memory foam and cut it to fit pretty easily and put it under the cover.