Track tire decisions

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Really? How long of sessions? I typically get about ~40 heat cycles/sessions out of them with the E92.



R1's are quite similar to R7's. Maybe a fraction slower, but wear better and less dramatic drop from heat cycles.

RR's are actually a 100TW compound. No idea why Toyo labels them as a 40. The NT01, R888R and RR use the same rubber compound.

Where are you getting information that the NT01 and RR use the same compound? Also, I thought it was the R888 that supposedly had the same compound, not the R888R.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Really? How long of sessions? I typically get about ~40 heat cycles/sessions out of them with the E92.

Actually I probably get 30-35 HCs when I think roughly about how many days I did in 2019 and 2 sets I ran through + new set of NT01 I ran. I could properly count and check tire purchase dates... but I'm lazy

Vast majority of sessions I've done are 20-25 minutes. Some were 30-45 minutes at the occasional private days.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Where are you getting information that the NT01 and RR use the same compound? Also, I thought it was the R888 that supposedly had the same compound, not the R888R.

Toyo. As well a friend of mine that works as a tire distributor confirmed the same with his contacts at Toyo. Both he and I were told by Toyo that the RR, NT01 and R888R share the same rubber compound. Sidewalls and tread pattern differ.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Actually I probably get 30-35 HCs when I think roughly about how many days I did in 2019 and 2 sets I ran through + new set of NT01 I ran. I could properly count and check tire purchase dates... but I'm lazy

Vast majority of sessions I've done are 20-25 minutes. Some were 30-45 minutes at the occasional private days.

Ok, that sounds more inline with what I've experienced. Thanks for the clarification!

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Really? How long of sessions? I typically get about ~40 heat cycles/sessions out of them with the E92.



R1's are quite similar to R7's. Maybe a fraction slower, but wear better and less dramatic drop from heat cycles.

RR's are actually a 100TW compound. No idea why Toyo labels them as a 40. The NT01, R888R and RR use the same rubber compound.

Cheers mate! Makes sense... Will def be giving R1 a try for next NASA TT event whenever that happens to be given the current situation.

Lutfy

[dparm]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Toyo. As well a friend of mine that works as a tire distributor confirmed the same with his contacts at Toyo. Both he and I were told by Toyo that the RR, NT01 and R888R share the same rubber compound. Sidewalls and tread pattern differ.

That actually makes sense given some of the weird rules NASA imposes on the RR -- they treat it as a 100+ TW tire like the NT01 and R888R even though it looks like a slick.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dparm

That actually makes sense given some of the weird rules NASA imposes on the RR -- they treat it as a 100+ TW tire like the NT01 and R888R even though it looks like a slick.

Which is new for 2020. Before the RR's were treated the same as a R7/R1, or even A7/R1S in ST1-3. Now that they decided to treat it like a 100TW tire (since it is), it will balance things out a lot better. It's a great tire in terms of its cost/speed/durability ratio. They wear like NT01 and run are as fast as the NT01's when the NT01's are at their fastest (tread worn down to 2 grooves) for their entire life.

Great HPDE, lapping or race tire for those on a more conservative budget and are willing to sacrifice a bit of ultimate grip, compared to R7/R1's, for huge gains in durability and longevity.

[hungryhippo]

The RR is probably considered a 40tw because of the low tread depth. The compound does explain why they aren't that much stickier than the r888r.
R7's seem like a complete waste of money for track days since they cycle out so fast. You might as well run A7 or pirelli scrubs which will last longer. BFG R1S is also a good choice that has grip close to R7 stickers but lasts longer.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by hungryhippo

The RR is probably considered a 40tw because of the low tread depth. The compound does explain why they aren't that much stickier than the r888r.
R7's seem like a complete waste of money for track days since they cycle out so fast. You might as well run A7 or pirelli scrubs which will last longer. BFG R1S is also a good choice that has grip close to R7 stickers but lasts longer.

Good points. For lapping you can't beat Pirelli scrubs from a speed to cost standpoint. But it seems like some people are intimidated to run slicks. Since they are so cheap I'd urge people to give them a try - there's nothing to be worried about imo.

For competition it not as clear cut. Slicks carry more of a penalty than A7/R1S and when comparing with scrubs aren't any faster, usually slower. Hence why, particularly in NASA, top TT and race competitors are often on A7's

I think a good way to think of the RR's is like a really hard compound slick. They are pretty quick and last forever and the best part is they remain consistent until they cord.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Good points. For lapping you can't beat Pirelli scrubs from a speed to cost standpoint. But it seems like some people are intimidated to run slicks. Since they are so cheap I'd urge people to give them a try - there's nothing to be worried about imo.

For competition it not as clear cut. Slicks carry more of a penalty than A7/R1S and when comparing with scrubs aren't any faster, usually slower. Hence why, particularly in NASA, top TT and race competitors are often on A7's

I think a good way to think of the RR's is like a really hard compound slick. They are pretty quick and last forever and the best part is they remain consistent until they cord.

I continue to struggle to find the best combination of cost, durability and grip. I'm starting to arrive at the same conclusion re: the Pirelli DH scrubs. At $600 per set, if I can get them to last 10-12 heat cycles, I'm getting more use from them as running NT-01s or RE71Rs. I usually can't get more than 16 heat cycles from those two tires before they cord.

I just ran 285/645/18s at my first event at Barber, and I felt like Superman pulling 1.5 Gs. I was running 1:37s by the third session in my 3800 pound daily driver. You have to run them at lower air pressure - 31-33 hot. I started them around 22 and still bled off after the first session. Source and quality is a challenge with the DH scrubs, but several sources sell them with only 2-4 heat cycles.

Before that, I tried the R1. I didn't find them to be much faster than the NT-01s or the RE71Rs, but incredibly, they lasted longer. They were also very old so that may have impacted my experience. So many variables including track surface, but I really want to try the R1S given the durability of the R1. Anyone have a good source for nicely priced R1Ss?

Also, as many have said, the Hankook RS4s last forever! Not as fast as others, but still quick given their durability. Anyone have a source for them? I'd like to try 285/35/18 square.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Good points. For lapping you can't beat Pirelli scrubs from a speed to cost standpoint. But it seems like some people are intimidated to run slicks. Since they are so cheap I'd urge people to give them a try - there's nothing to be worried about imo.

For competition it not as clear cut. Slicks carry more of a penalty than A7/R1S and when comparing with scrubs aren't any faster, usually slower. Hence why, particularly in NASA, top TT and race competitors are often on A7's

I think a good way to think of the RR's is like a really hard compound slick. They are pretty quick and last forever and the best part is they remain consistent until they cord.

Will be interesting to see if someone in TT1-3 can win with RR's.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

I continue to struggle to find the best combination of cost, durability and grip. I'm starting to arrive at the same conclusion re: the Pirelli DH scrubs. At $600 per set, if I can get them to last 10-12 heat cycles, I'm getting more use from them as running NT-01s or RE71Rs. I usually can't get more than 16 heat cycles from those two tires before they cord.

I just ran 285/645/18s at my first event at Barber, and I felt like Superman pulling 1.5 Gs. I was running 1:37s by the third session in my 3800 pound daily driver. You have to run them at lower air pressure - 31-33 hot. I started them around 22 and still bled off after the first session. Source and quality is a challenge with the DH scrubs, but several sources sell them with only 2-4 heat cycles.

Before that, I tried the R1. I didn't find them to be much faster than the NT-01s or the RE71Rs, but incredibly, they lasted longer. They were also very old so that may have impacted my experience. So many variables including track surface, but I really want to try the R1S given the durability of the R1. Anyone have a good source for nicely priced R1Ss?

Also, as many have said, the Hankook RS4s last forever! Not as fast as others, but still quick given their durability. Anyone have a source for them? I'd like to try 285/35/18 square.

The DH's are my new favorite to run too. $/sessions just makes the most sense. I have only been able to find 265's locally though, haven't found any good 285's yet without paying for shipping. I may also try a set of the Michelin's too if I find any, they seem to be similar.

As far as RS4's go they too last forever. Got a ton of time on my last set. And managed to get lucky and sang a $100 set of last year's 275/35 set they don't make anymore from a friend recently.
I have a source for 265 RS4 scrubs, but not 285's.
I'm not certain the 285 square setup would fit, but down to try it. I had the 285 on the rear of my car last year and they ran pretty tall/wide. Never stuck one on the front to test fitment before they got trashed unfortunately.
But even at 900-ish/set the RS4's are not too bad of a proposition to even buy new with how much life can be gotten out of them.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Will be interesting to see if someone in TT1-3 can win with RR's.

Honestly I don't think it will happen, certainly not in TT. In a race it's possible and much more likely.
I don't think the slightly lighter weight (or more power) you could run with the RR's would offset the pure speed advantage the A7's have. At least they've closed the gap. They seem to be slowly increasing the bonuses for less grippy tires. Last year? they upped the multiplier for 100TW and now this year they added the RR to that list. Shows they are at least attempting to balance it better.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Honestly I don't think it will happen, certainly not in TT. In a race it's possible and much more likely.
I don't think the slightly lighter weight (or more power) you could run with the RR's would offset the pure speed advantage the A7's have. At least they've closed the gap. They seem to be slowly increasing the bonuses for less grippy tires. Last year? they upped the multiplier for 100TW and now this year they added the RR to that list. Shows they are at least attempting to balance it better.

I think you're right . It's probably more aimed at the ST side of the house.