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04-05-2020, 09:08 AM | #45 | |
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They aren’t brake pads. They don’t go to a wear indicator. They are not supposed to wear at all. |
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04-05-2020, 12:57 PM | #46 |
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AutoTalent and BE Bearings are the same company in Gardena, CA. So always order direct from AutoTalent or BE Bearing for fastest service...instead of third parties.
Solid people and great shop, always packed with exotic cars. The BE bearings are made by Clevite, so there is always a wait. https://autotalent.com/products/be-a...2-m3-2008-2013 https://autotalent.com/products/be-b...2-m3-2008-2013 If you have a 2011+ E9X M3, you dont have an issue, since the bearing material was switched to the harder aluminum/tin, from the softer copper/lead. For 2008-2010 E9X M3s, use a Blackstone Oil Analysis if you are concerned about bearing wear. You will know in 2 weeks and it is cheap insurance. Otherwise, do an oil change at 5K mile intervals, instead of 10k-15k miles. If you have more than 120K miles, baby your car until you get the rod bearing service done. Liquid Moly makes some oil additives like, CeraTec and MoS2, that you can try. My 170k mile 2009 E90 M3 had little bearing wear, and I did 15k mile oil changes at the BMW dealership using that OEM 10w60 junk for 10 years. Avoid slamming a trusted vendor in the BMW community online. This isn't Facebook and Twitter. Cheers |
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04-05-2020, 02:00 PM | #47 | |
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The material was changed to meet hazardous materials reduction standards as lead is very toxic vs. any sort of improved performance from the harder tin shells Note BE returns to the tri-layer lead babbitt design but with a coating. |
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04-05-2020, 04:18 PM | #49 |
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04-05-2020, 04:53 PM | #50 | |
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I’m guessing there are just a bunch of people who don’t want to pay for it. It’s like a new furnace. You had heat before and you have heat now; the only difference is that your wallet is lighter. Unless your furnace blows up your house, you will never feel good about buying a new one. |
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04-05-2020, 05:06 PM | #51 | ||
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04-05-2020, 07:33 PM | #52 | |
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2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, ZF LSD, ESS G1, Some other goodies... |
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04-05-2020, 09:42 PM | #53 | |
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"Newer factory bearings (2010.5 and later) are made from tin-aluminum, not lead-copper. Tin-aluminum bearings are 4-times harder on the surface than lead-copper bearings. This extra hardness shows signs of doing more damage to motors as there seems to be more bearing failures with 2010.5 and later vehicles. Tin-aluminum bearings also don't show the same signs of premature wear in Blackstone oil analysis due to lack of lead and copper." Even though 2010.5 and up have harder bearings, that doesn't fix the clearance issue, which is the main problem. I have a 2011 and I'm going to get the bearings replaced with BE bearings this week. |
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04-05-2020, 09:52 PM | #54 | |
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Good times...
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2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, ZF LSD, ESS G1, Some other goodies... |
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04-05-2020, 11:47 PM | #55 | |
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04-06-2020, 11:19 AM | #56 | |
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1) Sn/Al bearings are simply harder than Pb/Cu - this is easily verified as true. There is also a great deal of information about this available online that shows that Pb alloy bearings are superior to Pb free bearings (see attached from an RoHS exemption request made by Caterpillar) 2) Neither 088/089 nor 702/703 bearings offer adequate nominal clearance as per all major bearing manufacturer's recommendations for high RPM engines 3) 088/089 and 702/703 shells can result in very tight tolerances based on the data collected and published All of the data is available for your independent review. All of the raw datalog files were shared by AutoTalent. The entire investigation was well documented and shared to the community. As my old boss used to say" "In God I trust, everyone else show me data." Happy motoring!
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04-06-2020, 11:46 AM | #58 | |
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For one you cant track wear on 2011+ engines with blackstone furthermore 2011+ bearings are more likely to score the crank when you go through the hard top layer due to the nature of the bearing material composition.
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04-06-2020, 01:09 PM | #59 |
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04-06-2020, 02:50 PM | #60 |
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04-06-2020, 03:29 PM | #61 | |
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It would also be nice if instead of BE having to check the clearances of ACL, etc bearings, ACL took it upon themselves to provide their information On top of it that people have spent hundreds of hours measuring and providing information for the community the new criticism is that it's 'their' data? So what, we'd be better off without it? That's why we get what we deserve, which is tons of aftermarket parts with no performance advantages and in some cases performance decreases peddled on us by vendors who think a good logo is all that is needed. Perhaps those vendors are correct. God forbid you do the work and provide the data, then people sit on their couches saying data is invalid. What a world we live in. Depressing
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Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 04-06-2020 at 04:07 PM.. |
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04-07-2020, 11:18 AM | #62 | |
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while some believe BE have a mission from above to produce The Golden rod shell in order to save The Grand S65B40, I believe they are a business, which is nothing wrong. As such it is common to investigate competitive landscape by measuring their products and estimating function. Most businesses doesn’t advertise their result other than “better performance/consumption/efficiency…etc” than average, but never the less typically based on similar investigations. I agree BE have done a massive effort in investigating competition shells and as it seems they all came out worse than BE. The other manufacturers haven’t done similar investigations in order to establish clearance and its variation simply because it is not possible, other than calculating Max/Min/Nominal dimensions based on assumed crank dimension, which for instance ACL does. This is where I never quite agreed with BE’s advertising (their “Wiki” page is in my mind a sales tool, not the bible, again fine); Measuring 10-15 cranks gives a good indication but the way these individual results is meant to be interpreted as a specification – i.e. valid for all engines – is obviously not possible. I also never understood the way BE come to “nominal” clearance but different story ( https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1504908&page=3). I’d probably would have BE if they could deliver when I replaced mine, maybe a tad lower price would have made me wait. So yes I believe they have a good product and yes I acknowledge their binning and matching to be a superior step in final testing. The hype and close to aggressive marketing makes me wonder though. When people are telling me I’m an idiot for not agreeing it makes me suspicious rather than convinced. No harm meant - Cheers mate |
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04-07-2020, 11:23 AM | #63 | |
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eitherway, you shown nothing to backup your statements, the failures of newer bearings prove your claims to be made up/BS.
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04-07-2020, 11:25 AM | #64 | |
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Why even change your bearings if you believe there isn't a problem when there is data/facts aside from BE data showing you otherwise? If there wasn't a problem, S65s wouldn't spin bearings and there would be no demand for BE/VAC/ACL S65 bearings .
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Last edited by tdott; 04-07-2020 at 11:31 AM.. |
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04-07-2020, 03:30 PM | #65 | |
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They back that up with a massive amount of data. They are the only people to present data. If one thinks BE is fishy or not trustworthy, does that mean they do not believe that there is insufficient clearance from the factory? That's fine by me. However I have lots of trouble understanding people criticizing BE -who provides data- but supporting other manufacturers that don't seem to know themselves what they sell. Personally I think BE sells their bearings way too cheap. I'd charge 1k for the shells. When companies with blatant disregard for what they send -VAC I'm looking at you- charge the same as BE and get business anyway, well, something is wrong with the universe. Cheers mate. Danny |
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