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      02-22-2016, 05:01 PM   #1101
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0W-40 vs TWS or Shell 10W60

I just went to the dealer and got the new shell 10w-60 and did the oil change. I did start thinking about my rod bearings etc..I only have 44K on the 2011 M3. I track the car 4-5 times a year and drive it occasionally. (2011 TDI sportwagen 6 sp is the DD)

I started reading this thread yesterday and was skeptical. I do use the 0W-40 in the GL550. So I went to Mobil 1 website, plugged in 2011 M3 and came up empty requiring 10W-60. So I plugged in a 2015 M4 and came up very surprised. Here is what the mobil1 site said:

"Based on what you've told us, your vehicle manufacturer recommends a 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 or 5W-40 viscosity and oil that meets BMW Longlife LL-01 or BMW Longlife-01FE. We offer these motor oils to help protect your vehicle."

So if my 2011 M3 gets the same factory fill as a 2015 M3/M4 (shell 10W-60) wouldn't it make sense that the mobil 1 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 or 5W-40 work fine in my 2011?

I think I will be using 0W-40 next time. For the track I may go back to 10W-60 because I never had issues with temps etc.

Thoughts?
Adam
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      02-22-2016, 05:19 PM   #1102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B757236 View Post
I just went to the dealer and got the new shell 10w-60 and did the oil change. I did start thinking about my rod bearings etc..I only have 44K on the 2011 M3. I track the car 4-5 times a year and drive it occasionally. (2011 TDI sportwagen 6 sp is the DD)

I started reading this thread yesterday and was skeptical. I do use the 0W-40 in the GL550. So I went to Mobil 1 website, plugged in 2011 M3 and came up empty requiring 10W-60. So I plugged in a 2015 M4 and came up very surprised. Here is what the mobil1 site said:

"Based on what you've told us, your vehicle manufacturer recommends a 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 or 5W-40 viscosity and oil that meets BMW Longlife LL-01 or BMW Longlife-01FE. We offer these motor oils to help protect your vehicle."

So if my 2011 M3 gets the same factory fill as a 2015 M3/M4 (shell 10W-60) wouldn't it make sense that the mobil 1 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 or 5W-40 work fine in my 2011?

I think I will be using 0W-40 next time. For the track I may go back to 10W-60 because I never had issues with temps etc.

Thoughts?
Adam

AFAIK the FF on the F-series M3/M4 is not 10w60. You can use BMW LL-01 on those motors, so it's probably a 5w40 or something.
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      02-22-2016, 05:33 PM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
AFAIK the FF on the F-series M3/M4 is not 10w60. You can use BMW LL-01 on those motors, so it's probably a 5w40 or something.
Yep my assumption was when I saw the twin power turbo nonsense on the bottle.
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      05-05-2016, 01:29 PM   #1104
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Just curious if others are aware of a rumor that M1 0w40 is no longer LL-01? On amazon I went to purchase a couple of 5 quart jugs (our Cayenne Turbo uses it) to switch over after years of this (and the fact that my 08 DID eat the rod bearings).

If anyone has any history on that certification process, why M1 no longer has it, etc., I would appreciate if you can chime in.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1061057

Above is a fairly old post regarding the process.
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      05-05-2016, 01:52 PM   #1105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcase View Post
Just curious if others are aware of a rumor that M1 0w40 is no longer LL-01? On amazon I went to purchase a couple of 5 quart jugs (our Cayenne Turbo uses it) to switch over after years of this (and the fact that my 08 DID eat the rod bearings).

If anyone has any history on that certification process, why M1 no longer has it, etc., I would appreciate if you can chime in.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1061057

Above is a fairly old post regarding the process.


It's not a rumor, it's a fact: The new "FS" version doesn't carry LL-01 anymore.

Queries to XOM (by BITOG members) have not revealed anything useful like "it is currently pending" or "we no longer have interest in holding this approval". For whatever reason, it's no longer LL-01.

That being said, it's still a very stout oil and one of XOM's halo products.
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      10-05-2016, 01:39 PM   #1106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Check out: http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
MOTOR OIL “WEAR PROTECTION” RANKING LIST
If wading through the self aggrandizing is too much then I'll give you the headlines.

49. 10W60 Castrol TWS Motorsport, API SJ conventional = 90,163 psi
65. 0W40 Mobil 1, API SN, European Formula, made in the U.S., synthetic = 82,644 psi

Apparently
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
The rankings have changed with Mobil 1's new European Formula 0W40.
Quote:
3. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
This new oil replaces the older version called, 0W40 Mobil 1, European Formula, API SN, synthetic. See below for the older version’s ranking position.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This new “FS” version was tested in Summer 2016. This oil produced the highest psi value ever seen in my testing, from any motor oil just as it comes right out of the bottle, with no aftermarket additives. Very impressive.

I also went on to test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil did have a 16% drop in capability. But, even at that elevated temperature, it produced an impressive 106,876 psi, which still kept this much hotter and thinner oil in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.

I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 280F.


Oops. I posted while still in the middle of the thread. Sorry about that. Whether LL-01 or not, if these psi rankings have any basis in reality for engine wear protection, then it seems to be the best to use. I have a 2006 M5 with 106,000 km on it. Just did an oil sample test after 300 km on a new oil change (with a bypass filter) and have no wear metals - but have 2.4% fuel dilution and a reduction in viscosity (which rat 540 says is not materially relevant to engine wear).

OK> Now I doubly apologize. Apparently rat 540i is the subject of much controversy and his testing method is not relevant (one-armed bandit) to where shampoo does well in the test. This is spite of the number of testimonials from people who have followed his advice. Well, live and learn.

I'm keeping 10W60 (liqui moly) for the winter, but using an oil pan heater lit up for a few hours before taking the car out in dry weather, from time to time. I want to see what my oil sample analysis will show next year.

Last edited by gmak2012; 10-05-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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      11-30-2016, 07:35 AM   #1107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
It's not a rumor, it's a fact: The new "FS" version doesn't carry LL-01 anymore.

Queries to XOM (by BITOG members) have not revealed anything useful like "it is currently pending" or "we no longer have interest in holding this approval". For whatever reason, it's no longer LL-01.

That being said, it's still a very stout oil and one of XOM's halo products.
Any update on this? I'm at 65k miles on my 2011 E92 (99% daily driver with the occasional auto x) and I'm looking leave the 10w60 market to see if the mobile 1 0w40 option is still superior. I change oil religiously at 8k so would I need to lower that to 5k with 0w40?

Thanks!

Sam
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      11-30-2016, 09:15 AM   #1108
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No update, the new FS version still does not carry BMW's LL-01 cert, but everything else is still intact (MB, Porsche A40, Nissan GT-R).

Kawasaki00 verified no issue with oil pressure with 0W40, and I've been running it since 1200mi break-in with absolute no issue. I feel like you have to do your own research on engine lubrication and convince yourself 0W40 is more suitable.

It's no coincidence RAT540 tested the new FS and returned a better result, because theoretically, the new GTL base oil is suppose to be superior.
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      11-30-2016, 09:27 AM   #1109
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New 0W-40 has a worse cold pour point, if nothing else.

I'm running it on my M3 wagon (didn't realize they had reformulated-- I wouldn't be had I realized sooner it was no longer LL01 certified) and have noticeably higher oil temps than my M3 coupe (TWS).

In short, I won't be running it again. I'll likely move the wagon to GC 0w-40.

Coupe gets tracked, so absolutely not moving it off TWS.
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      11-30-2016, 09:48 AM   #1110
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Fwiw I ran Mobil 1 0w40 for several changes and noticed the increased consumption many have experienced. Switched to Redline 5w40 and consumption has dropped to near zero. My car has nearly 90k on it

Last edited by Richbot; 11-30-2016 at 10:44 AM.
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      11-30-2016, 11:57 AM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Fwiw I ran Mobil 1 0w40 for several changes and noticed the increased consumption many have experienced. Switched to Redline 5w40 and consumption has dropped to near zero. My car has nearly 90k on it
That's interesting

I'm running RL 0w40 in e46 and e36/7 in winter--
Superior to Mobil 1, IMHO ;-)

Run a mix of 5w50 and 10w60 in the S65.
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      11-30-2016, 02:07 PM   #1112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
New 0W-40 has a worse cold pour point, if nothing else.

I'm running it on my M3 wagon (didn't realize they had reformulated-- I wouldn't be had I realized sooner it was no longer LL01 certified) and have noticeably higher oil temps than my M3 coupe (TWS).

In short, I won't be running it again. I'll likely move the wagon to GC 0w-40.

Coupe gets tracked, so absolutely not moving it off TWS.

Pour point is not a very useful measurement and it can be easily changed with additives known as "pour point depressants". Pumpability (CCS/MRV) is more indicative of cold weather performance since that's what the oil pump is doing.
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      11-30-2016, 02:20 PM   #1113
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New FS pour point is not even published LOL....but MRV is way superior than Castrol 0w40 at -40*C

21xxx vs 60000 if I remember correctly
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      07-26-2018, 05:44 AM   #1114
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This is my pics of BE rod bearing #8 after 50,000 km on M1 0W-40.
Looks like new.
Outside temps from -25C up to +30C.



Last edited by toolshed; 07-26-2018 at 05:54 AM.
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      07-26-2018, 06:43 AM   #1115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samtwatson View Post
Any update on this? I'm at 65k miles on my 2011 E92 (99% daily driver with the occasional auto x) and I'm looking leave the 10w60 market to see if the mobile 1 0w40 option is still superior. I change oil religiously at 8k so would I need to lower that to 5k with 0w40?

Thanks!

Sam
Why are you looking to switch?
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      07-26-2018, 08:05 AM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolshed View Post
This is my pics of BE rod bearing #8 after 50,000 km on M1 0W-40.
Looks like new.
Outside temps from -25C up to +30C.


Very interesting to see BE coming out after fair mileage. You should post in the official bearing thread (please!): https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1253084

What was the reason ypu took them out? Any special reason to run thin oil with these extended clearance shells mate?

Thanks!
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      07-26-2018, 10:32 AM   #1117
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I think he pulled the pan because his VANOS caps fell apart on him and ended up in the pan, but I could be wrong
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      07-26-2018, 11:14 AM   #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
I think he pulled the pan because his VANOS caps fell apart on him and ended up in the pan, but I could be wrong
Cheers Rich, was too lazy to read the complete threadů . Still, really interesting to see some fresh shells come out.
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      07-26-2018, 11:17 AM   #1119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolshed View Post
This is my pics of BE rod bearing #8 after 50,000 km on M1 0W-40.
Looks like new.
Outside temps from -25C up to +30C.
Any other information? Driving style, change interval, Blackstone analyses over time, other car mods, etc.

This is good to see, but still one point in isolation without a ton of context.
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      07-27-2018, 07:19 PM   #1120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolshed View Post
This is my pics of BE rod bearing #8 after 50,000 km on M1 0W-40.
Looks like new.
Outside temps from -25C up to +30C.
Isn't 0w40 too thin to use with BE rod bearings?
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      07-27-2018, 09:14 PM   #1121
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Apparently it is still a good oil for use with normal rod bearing clearances. Lamborghini and Audi used it on their 8000 rpm V8s and Porsche on its 8000 rpm boxer 6s.
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      07-27-2018, 10:15 PM   #1122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Apparently it is still a good oil for use with normal rod bearing clearances. Lamborghini and Audi used it on their 8000 rpm V8s and Porsche on its 8000 rpm boxer 6s.
Also FF for the GT-R and Lexus LFA...
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