RS4 beats new M3 in Autoexpress Test

[journeysaver.com]

Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude

RS4 is just wayyyy overhyped, so the "soft" M3 looks like a scalpel next to it.

What is faster in a straight line drag race? RS4 is quoted as 0 - 60 mph in 4.5 secs and 0 - 100 mph in 10.5 seconds. I can't help but think the E92 M3 could have done with an extra 20 bhp... especially with the new Merc C63 AMG coming too, not to mention the RS5!

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

If you look at the times the car got, the RS4 was never behind in corners. So next time you are reading an article check all the numbers, please. The RS4 was on par or better then the 335i in corners (each section has their time) and MUCH better on straights. I am only saying much because they said it in the article.

As u put your numbers down, the driver slowed way to much, but still got good times around those corners, I am not saying it's a huge difference or not, let's suppose times were just identical to the 335i. But then the RS4 got way much faster from one corner to the other, resulting much better time.

So, if you are smart, explain me again, using logic not just stupid words, how a car can win a second over another car that is much faster on the straight and (about) the same in corners?

By the way, the driver makes a huge difference, and whoever makes a race with two drivers, one will lose and one will win. Even with identical cars. So don't be smart ass and jumping to high on the 335i winning in a test where they used 3 different drivers (clearly assigned to their cars, not even switching cars from time to time, as to make a better/correct average).
Don't believe? Let's race, me and you. Even with IDENTICAL cars, one will lose, one will win. You wanna bet?

[moss]

Sprint off from the lights on a dry day the M3 will win

Sprint off from the lights on a wet day the RS4 will win

Live in Las Vegas - buy an M3

Live in the UK buy an RS4......

...or for us in the UK we could move to Vegas, buy and M3 and with the money we'd saved we could have a hell of a time out there

[lucid]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Don't believe? Let's race, me and you. Even with IDENTICAL cars, one will lose, one will win. You wanna bet?

This is great! Finally, someone willing to put his car where his mouth is! I am really hoping Epacy will accept the challenge--like a true nobleman--and we will settle this damn RS4 vs. M3 rhetoric that has taken over this forum in a conclusive manner once and for all. My money will be on the M3 (driven by Epacy of course), but I don't know if Epacy has decided to spend his money on an M3 just yet. Oh, wait, this can't actually happen since the M3 is not even out yet, and we don't even know how it will perform exactly, hence the pointlessness of all this rhetoric...

[M3onTwomps]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Well, I kinda got sick of arguing here, some people are just blinded by their badge sometimes. I am glad there are a few who can see the truth, in the end this is just useless talk. I'll just wait until the next review for the M3<>RS4 and I'll come back to you guys, it looks like you enjoy fighting ... Anyway, as the title says, the "RS4 beats new M3" and that is enough for me for the moment.

Because you're a mindless simpleton. Run along to the safety of your Audi board.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Well, I kinda got sick of arguing here, some people are just blinded by their badge sometimes. I am glad there are a few who can see the truth, in the end this is just useless talk. I'll just wait until the next review for the M3<>RS4 and I'll come back to you guys, it looks like you enjoy fighting ... Anyway, as the title says, the "RS4 beats new M3" and that is enough for me for the moment.

Us enjoy fighting? Who is the one who recently registered on this board to stir things up?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Anyway, as the title says, the "RS4 beats new M3" and that is enough for me for the moment.

Okay, this is great, too. Whatever you say. You have the last word: RS4 indeed beats the new M3. Can we get back to some relevant discussion about the M3 on this board now?

[M3onTwomps]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Thanks for your sympathy. Actually I know I am not. You are being rude, and I bet you would not have the courage to say the same thing standing in front of me. Other than that, I only said what I honestly had in mind, and I came with logic arguments, something not everybody here was able to do. I am still not defeated on what I said, but I just find it boring to fight/talk with some guys like you. Next thing is to start jumping on me with some very "quite" words I bet you use very often around you.

Your stupid comment only emphasize the way SOME bmw fans are: rude, haughty, and conceited.

Ah, I see. We're supposed to believe you're mature now? After you came here to start a flame war? Whatever man.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Thanks for your sympathy. Actually I know I am not. You are being rude, and I bet you would not have the courage to say the same thing standing in front of me. Other than that, I only said what I honestly had in mind, and I came with logic arguments, something not everybody here was able to do. I am still not defeated on what I said, but I just find it boring to fight/talk with some guys like you. Next thing is to start jumping on me with some very "quite" words I bet you use very often around you.

Your stupid comment only emphasize the way SOME bmw fans are: rude, haughty, and conceited.

i'm still waiting for these 'logic arguments'. please point me in the direction of where these are located in this thread. i provided a ton of facts for you, yet you just come back with opinionated drama. you have no purpose on this board, please leave.

[carnuts3]

Unless you drive your car on the track most of the time, who cares what car beat the other. Both are great cars for the way most people drive everyday. Chill out! My only concern is that these cars are getting a little too pricey. For another $10K I might consider upgrading to the next level.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

You know what is funny ?
So MANY of you where posting before on other threads, being worried about the new M3 against the RS4, then against the C63 AMG. But, somehow, you are all fake here (at least the last few pages) on this thread, yeah, the M3 is the best, what ever ...

Just go back to YOUR own members(including yourself) and tell them to be more confident ALL THE TIME, not just when somebody is here to point out the problems the M3 will have. And that is competition. So, you can say what ever you want, cause you already showed how hypocrites SOME of you guys are. Hypocrites!

Easy to prove, I will post ONLY a few of your own posts below, but you can find tons similar in content on YOUR own forum.

jworms wrote on the thread 'Has the //M Division failed us...?':
"with all that being said i have to be honest and say that i'm not impressed with the recent reviews on the e92 m3."

juzef :
"The C63 and especially the RS5 pics look 1000% better than any E92 I've seen as of yet.BMW will have to seriously worry if the C63 and RS5 are within 5k of the E92."

Just_me:
"To be honest. Im worried about the M3. 420hp wont be enough and now even C63 can turn of ESP 100% and LSd is available. I hate to say it but it looks like we have a new king."

chitosing:
"Agree with you, South...C63 is a totally different car. I just hope the M3 sedan measures up to the C, both in performance and looks..."

aerosolphalm:
"I had expected the M3 to set the standard, this does not seem to be the case. While it may be a great car, the reviews so far do not proclaim it to be the new benchmark. And for all who will say "wait for more reviews" or "what these reviewers really said or really meant was...", I say that if the new M3 was definitely better than the competition, the reviews would have unequivocally said as much."

Hypocrites!

why don't you include everything i said in that post:

Originally Posted by jworms

with all that being said i have to be honest and say that i'm not impressed with the recent reviews on the e92 m3. but reviews mean little to me without hard numbers. i'm just hoping that the performance numbers that come out for it aren't as disappointing.

the reviews are mostly opinions and mean very little for actual performance numbers. when the numbers finally started streaming in in recent articles they provided a sense of confidence that yes, the m3 is growing up, but it still has the balls to beat out most others in its class and even some 'supposedly' above it (Audi R8).

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Afraid of competition?
Well, look for my username and read what is on the right side. You know, the next column on the right. There is where you can find my arguments. Easy.

But I can point to some of my arguments here(my opinion, remember that), a short list, reflecting to this thread/article:
-M3 should be better (I think) on the track
-weight is pretty close between these 2 cars (check the websites in UK were this test was done-even if they are the same or 75KG off - pretty close)
-RS4 is much better as a daily car, not only but especially on wet/snow
-the RS4 can be as fun as the M3 (from this article)
-the M3 steering feels numb (from a few articles)
-overall, every single guy on this forum will drive his M3/RS4/C63amg on a public road a lot, compared to the track days. I can not get a percentage for each of us, but I bet the average will get 95% of his driving on public roads, with as much as 0-5% on tracks. Count your own time spend in the car on road/track and just be honest.
-if you want a track car, then wait for the CSL

Facts are facts, to go back to this thread here, the review is having the RS4 on the first place. It's just one review, so don't look so scared, you guys can get it right next time.

lol. your opinion is worthless on this forum. i'm obviously not the scared one going on other car forums to try and convince others that my overpriced, whale of a car is still valid in a world where everyone else is surpassing it.

come back when you get some actual facts to back your ridiculous, opinion based claims. no, actually just don't come back at all. you've contributed nothing of value to this forum and i doubt you ever will.

[moss]

can't really see if your driving a 99 e36, you're in much of a position to be calling an RS4 crap????????????????????????????????????????????

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Numbers are mostly good for a track race, not for a daily driving. the 0.2 seconds M3 MIGHT win over RS4 on 1/4mile is nothing when you drive with a 75 speed limit. The 0.1 seconds on 0-60 is nothing at all on a quick start from a stop, on a street. That 0.1 s you lose with a blink of an eye, it's not enough of a difference. Funny how those opinion count when BMW wins and do not count anymore when Bmw loses.

the opinions don't count for anything to me as stated with that quote of mine. the actual performance numbers are streaming in and you refuse acknowledge them.

i have a feeling you've never been to a track before. unlike you, i actually use my car for what it was made for. so yes, i am interested in the real performance numbers this car produces. i could see you as the type who would go out and buy a GT3 and never have it see the track. what a waste of a car.

Originally Posted by mintenasi

My whale is having the same weight as your new baby car ... such a heavy baby I would be ashamed.

Hehe, opinion or not, the article stated something you guys can't digest. Not because you are not able to, but because you don't want to.

what's there to digest? we all agree that the review rated the rs4 higher than the M3. we also all agree that the article admits the m3 is faster than the rs4.
btw, you know that 75kg is around 165lbs right? that seems like a pretty significant difference in weight to me.

Originally Posted by moss

can't really see if your driving a 99 e36, you're in much of a position to be calling an RS4 crap????????????????????????????????????????????

hmm, ok. that makes a ton of sense.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Afraid of competition?
Well, look for my username and read what is on the right side. You know, the next column on the right. There is where you can find my arguments. Easy.

But I can point to some of my arguments here(my opinion, remember that), a short list, reflecting to this thread/article:
-M3 should be better (I think) on the track
-weight is pretty close between these 2 cars (check the websites in UK were this test was done-even if they are the same or 75KG off - pretty close)
-RS4 is much better as a daily car, not only but especially on wet/snow
-the RS4 can be as fun as the M3 (from this article)
-the M3 steering feels numb (from a few articles)
-overall, every single guy on this forum will drive his M3/RS4/C63amg on a public road a lot, compared to the track days. I can not get a percentage for each of us, but I bet the average will get 95% of his driving on public roads, with as much as 0-5% on tracks. Count your own time spend in the car on road/track and just be honest.
-if you want a track car, then wait for the CSL, otherwise buy an 335i and change the badge to the M3, chip it and change the muffler.

Facts are facts, to go back to this thread here, the review is having the RS4 on the first place. It's just one review, so don't look so scared, you guys can get it right next time.

Unfortunatly, the BMW M3 isn't released yet and won't be for some while. So the "facts" are not solid because BMW can change a few things before the production runs of the car.

Secondly, the 2 common "themes" that different reviewers have brought up were the brake fade with excessive tracking and the lack of feedback through the steering wheel and on-center driving.

Everything else i have read in the 3-4 detailed reviews suggest the car is beyond remarkable. The brake fade issue, may or may not be true and might be more about how BMW implamented their new brake technology and might need re-programming for the more agressive M3. And... the numb steering wheel, which can be solely because the reviewers were not driving the car in Sport mode, which increased the steering ratio and responsivness.

Either way, BMW can tweak these 2 things pretty easily with absolutly no cost.


I've read every one of your post and find you just babbling and regurgitating nothing but your opinion. To participate in a debate, you have to bring something worthwhile to argue about. You don't...!!





-Garrett

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Well, I kinda got sick of arguing here....

Could have fooled me after all that you posted since you made that comment.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

165 pounds can be easily modified when having a bigger and heavier driver.
I did more enthusiastic driving then all the people I personally know. I honestly doubt the average guy here could handle my driving, but since you say you are such an extensive tracking experience you could be very good yourself.

The only number I saw was for the 4.4 for the 0-60 test. The RS4 can match that any time. Any other numbers?
It's not only about the numbers, and you, a track guy, should know that. The article also says the steering feels bad, the transmission feels bad... That is 2 major issues, especially on a track. You do know that, don't you?

They didn't say the steering feels bad or the tranny was bad..! They suggested that the steering was too mushy, meaning the power steering was asssiting too much and that many of the testers would like more ressitance and feedback through the steering wheel. AGAIN, this could be because they didn't have sport steering mode ON.

Secondly, they didn't say the transmission was bad, but the gearbox didn't feel right. It seems BMW has tried to soften up the M3 a bit and purest aren't letting BMW forget what made the M iconic and are silently demanding that BMW take notice.

These things your discussing are nuances "dialed in" while doing their own in house testing. Now that a good portion of the Press has had a chance, perhaps BMW will re-dial their software & refine the BMW a tad more towards a harsher ride.





-Garrett

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

165 pounds can be easily modified when having a bigger and heavier driver.
I did more enthusiastic driving then all the people I personally know. I honestly doubt the average guy here could handle my driving, but since you say you are such an extensive tracking experience you could be very good yourself.

The only number I saw was for the 4.4 for the 0-60 test. The RS4 can match that any time. Any other numbers?
It's not only about the numbers, and you, a track guy, should know that. The article also says the steering feels bad, the transmission feels bad... That is 2 major issues, especially on a track. You do know that, don't you?

Sounds to me like the best driver has met the best car. That's rare today. If I was you, I would drive my beast all day and not argue with others that are not able to appreciate what's obvious...

Best regards, south

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

165 pounds can be easily modified when having a bigger and heavier driver.
I did more enthusiastic driving then all the people I personally know. I honestly doubt the average guy here could handle my driving, but since you say you are such an extensive tracking experience you could be very good yourself.

The only number I saw was for the 4.4 for the 0-60 test. The RS4 can match that any time. Any other numbers?
It's not only about the numbers, and you, a track guy, should know that. The article also says the steering feels bad, the transmission feels bad... That is 2 major issues, especially on a track. You do know that, don't you?

dude, seriously just give up. i don't think you understand how bad you are looking here. you should take a moment and read what you've said in this thread. you don't stand by anything you say because after it gets shot down you just go on to the next empty, opinion backed theory.

for the record, i'd be very disappointed if the rs4 with its awd couldn't pull off similar 0-60 times. awd is a huge advantage for 0-60 tests. go look at the other figures i mentioned earlier, like 0-200km/h, braking 100-0km/h, etc. and see which car comes out on top.

yeah, you're right...the transmission from the e46 M3 definitely held it back but most of all, the transmission and steering 'problems' are all opinions. how can you measure the feel of a transmission/steering? every person will have a different response to it, some better/worse than others.

the numbers don't lie and once again you fail to realize that.

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Hypocrites!

I dont like being called names. Thank you very much!

[lucid]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Read what I said again: that I did plenty of driving, and that I am better than the average guy.

It's really hard for you guys to actually understand what u read before you post something stupid again??

Dude, how deep of a hole do you want to dig yourself here exactly before letting go? Don't you see that you've pretty much alienated just about everyone around? Or, are you some kind of automated reply algorithm?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mintenasi

Read what I said again: that I did plenty of driving, and that I am better than the average guy.

It's really hard for you guys to actually understand what u read before you post something stupid again??

No need for pluralis majestatis here.
That was just a recommendation and you call it stupid.
You're so thankless...

Best regards, south