BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
INDustry distribution
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-19-2020, 09:38 PM   #1
racer_951
Enlisted Member
United_States
17
Rep
47
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, e92 M3, Cayman S, SPB
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Tire treatment products- PJ-1 TrackBite Compound SP-162

Any experience using tire softener or treatment like PJ-1 TrackBite Compound SP-162 for road course racing or track days?
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2020, 11:30 PM   #2
dparm
World's greatest HPDE driver
dparm's Avatar
United_States
2871
Rep
7,972
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

I've never seen anyone at HPDE, time trial, or wheel-to-wheel racing use a tire softener, and I've been doing this for over 10 years.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2020, 02:31 AM   #3
tsk94
Captain
tsk94's Avatar
Canada
563
Rep
745
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (1)

I have seen it, albeit not often. Used it myself a few times on older tires and it seemed to work decently well.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 03:12 PM   #4
butte2butte
Second Lieutenant
butte2butte's Avatar
171
Rep
232
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I've never seen anyone at HPDE, time trial, or wheel-to-wheel racing use a tire softener, and I've been doing this for over 10 years.
Using a tire softener isn't usually something that's done trackside, instead it's usually done a few days beforehand so you wouldn't know who has softened their tires and who hasn't. Of course you could ask, but even then you might not always get the truth since it's a cheat code of sorts.

If it did nothing but make expensive slick tires last just a little longer, I can't see how it wouldn't be worth it if you possess more time than money.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 04:36 PM   #5
dparm
World's greatest HPDE driver
dparm's Avatar
United_States
2871
Rep
7,972
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by butte2butte View Post
Using a tire softener isn't usually something that's done trackside, instead it's usually done a few days beforehand so you wouldn't know who has softened their tires and who hasn't. Of course you could ask, but even then you might not always get the truth since it's a cheat code of sorts.

If it did nothing but make expensive slick tires last just a little longer, I can't see how it wouldn't be worth it if you possess more time than money.


Good to know. I've never heard anyone mention it, but I've not really asked.

Hoosier explicitly says NOT to use these products, FWIW.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 04:44 PM   #6
butte2butte
Second Lieutenant
butte2butte's Avatar
171
Rep
232
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Hoosier could have a very good reason why it's not recommended (maybe they haven't extensively tested the products and therefore cannot endorse them) and then again they could also just not want their fastest wearing slick tires to last longer. Idk.

Those with more experience using these products could shine some light on this topic.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2020, 10:35 PM   #7
racer_951
Enlisted Member
United_States
17
Rep
47
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, e92 M3, Cayman S, SPB
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

I have done track events for over 20 years and club racing with PCA over 10 years. I’ve never seen anyone used or heard anyone mentioned this kind of tire treatment products. That’s why I’m curious. I know these products are used by people doing drag racing and they claim they really help. I have a set of 2 year old Hoosier R7 for my Cayman S and a couple of sets of Toyo RR for my Spec Boxster. Due to COVID, these tires have sitting in my garage for a couple of years. I did a track day with my Cayman 2 weeks ago and the tires weren’t hooking up. There is still plenty of tread left on the R7 (10 heat cycles). I guess I’ll spend $55 and give it a try. I’ll keep you guys posted

Last edited by racer_951; 10-21-2020 at 11:16 PM..
Appreciate 2
dparm2871.00
Kelse92581.00

      10-21-2020, 11:20 PM   #8
racer_951
Enlisted Member
United_States
17
Rep
47
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, e92 M3, Cayman S, SPB
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

I think Hoosier just want us to buy more of their expensive tires. They are great tires when new but still heat cycle out quickly. I usually don’t buy Hoosiers. They came with the Cayman S I bought last year.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 09:06 AM   #9
Kelse92
Captain
United_States
581
Rep
924
Posts

Drives: 2013 e92 M3 & 2015 X3 28i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

They say a Hoosier is bad about 18mos after the date codes stamped on the side.
__________________

#ladydriven Heavy-spec M3 // KW Clubsports // AA x-pipe // Gintani muffler // Macht-Schnell intake // Gintani tune // OMP Seats // Too Many Apex Wheels // Stoptech ST-60 // Cobalt Friction brake pads
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 09:21 AM   #10
dparm
World's greatest HPDE driver
dparm's Avatar
United_States
2871
Rep
7,972
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
They say a Hoosier is bad about 18mos after the date codes stamped on the side.
Define "bad". I have a set of sticker R7s that are way more than 18 months.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 09:35 AM   #11
Richbot
Major General
2124
Rep
5,268
Posts

Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
They say a Hoosier is bad about 18mos after the date codes stamped on the side.
they on crack

I suppose if they've been stored in the sun and cold for 18 months that could happen, but not true in my experrience. Just give older Hoosiers a little more time to come in on the first out lap and they're fine. Not going to be quite as fast as new ones, but fine
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 09:57 AM   #12
Kelse92
Captain
United_States
581
Rep
924
Posts

Drives: 2013 e92 M3 & 2015 X3 28i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
they on crack

I suppose if they've been stored in the sun and cold for 18 months that could happen, but not true in my experrience. Just give older Hoosiers a little more time to come in on the first out lap and they're fine. Not going to be quite as fast as new ones, but fine
Lol Probably. I have one data point below, but it's not great.
I do wonder if that softener stuff would help at all. I found a set of literal 2017 Sticker R7's in my friends garage when we were cleaning it out last week. I wonder what those might be like...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Define "bad". I have a set of sticker R7s that are way more than 18 months.
My only experience with a set of older Hoosiers recently was riding along when some some late-2018 ones were on the BRZ and they must have lived outside or something for some time because they literally had lower peak G's than Flaken 615's on data and lap times were the same pace as the 615's and could not go faster.
__________________

#ladydriven Heavy-spec M3 // KW Clubsports // AA x-pipe // Gintani muffler // Macht-Schnell intake // Gintani tune // OMP Seats // Too Many Apex Wheels // Stoptech ST-60 // Cobalt Friction brake pads
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 10:20 AM   #13
dparm
World's greatest HPDE driver
dparm's Avatar
United_States
2871
Rep
7,972
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, the Hoosier Tire Care & Safety Guidelines document only says this:


Service Life for Race Tires: Old tires can fail in use, causing loss of vehicle control and personal injury. Environmental conditions like temperature extremes, exposure to sunlight, electric arc, solvents, automotive fluids, and atmospheric pollutants accelerate the aging process. Hoosier Racing Tire strongly recommends that new (sticker) tires should be put in service within 2 years of date of purchase. Used (scuffed) tires have a shorter service life than new (sticker) tires. Poor storage and infrequent use accelerate the aging process.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 12:08 PM   #14
Richbot
Major General
2124
Rep
5,268
Posts

Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL

iTrader: (5)

Also, who are these monsters allowing Hoosiers to age out that's against the law all tires must die
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 12:11 PM   #15
dparm
World's greatest HPDE driver
dparm's Avatar
United_States
2871
Rep
7,972
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Also, who are these monsters allowing Hoosiers to age out that's against the law all tires must die
Meh, I got mine from someone who bought them for a car they ended up selling. They forgot the shop was storing them.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 12:33 PM   #16
Kelse92
Captain
United_States
581
Rep
924
Posts

Drives: 2013 e92 M3 & 2015 X3 28i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Also, who are these monsters allowing Hoosiers to age out that's against the law all tires must die
In the case of the set I'm trying to sell right now, the lady I got them from has so much money she doesn't care. She also frequently throws out 4 HC Pirelli's that I use as hand-me-downs lol.
__________________

#ladydriven Heavy-spec M3 // KW Clubsports // AA x-pipe // Gintani muffler // Macht-Schnell intake // Gintani tune // OMP Seats // Too Many Apex Wheels // Stoptech ST-60 // Cobalt Friction brake pads
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 05:45 PM   #17
ThunderMoose
Lieutenant Colonel
651
Rep
1,826
Posts

Drives: PY E46 M3 and SG E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
They say a Hoosier is bad about 18mos after the date codes stamped on the side.
I have a set from 2017 and another from 2018. I won National championship last year with those tires. I ran a 2:03 at ECR this year with the 2018 set. They sit in the back of my camper cab most of the year.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2020, 07:12 PM   #18
LeveragedTiger
Private First Class
LeveragedTiger's Avatar
86
Rep
100
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
FWIW, the Hoosier Tire Care & Safety Guidelines document only says this:


Service Life for Race Tires: Old tires can fail in use, causing loss of vehicle control and personal injury. Environmental conditions like temperature extremes, exposure to sunlight, electric arc, solvents, automotive fluids, and atmospheric pollutants accelerate the aging process. Hoosier Racing Tire strongly recommends that new (sticker) tires should be put in service within 2 years of date of purchase. Used (scuffed) tires have a shorter service life than new (sticker) tires. Poor storage and infrequent use accelerate the aging process.
That sounds like a statement written by a lawyer more than anything else.
__________________
Mods: Akrapovic Evolution System / AlpineMSS Stage 2 Tune / MCS 2WNR / RTD V4 Carbon SSK + DSSR
Appreciate 1
Kelse92581.00

      10-23-2020, 05:24 PM   #19
racer_951
Enlisted Member
United_States
17
Rep
47
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, e92 M3, Cayman S, SPB
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Sure sounds like a statement from the lawyer.
Appreciate 0
      10-25-2020, 08:43 PM   #20
roastbeef
Lieutenant General
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
7647
Rep
10,926
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

anyone ever use it for a set of clapped out pirelli dh's?
__________________
Instagram; @roastbeefmike
Appreciate 0
      10-25-2020, 08:55 PM   #21
butte2butte
Second Lieutenant
butte2butte's Avatar
171
Rep
232
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

I've got a set of DHB's with just 4 HC. When my RR's are done after 2 (hopefully) more track days, I'll be moving to them, and they will be cleaned and prepped with Keyser tire cleaner and then Hot Lap.

I'll keep documentation, as I usually do, on track conditions and longevity.

I won't have a baseline to tell you how much further the same set would have gone without cleaning and prep, but maybe posting pace, track, conditions and total laps will be worth something against the standard use consensus if there is one.
Appreciate 0
      10-25-2020, 09:01 PM   #22
Kelse92
Captain
United_States
581
Rep
924
Posts

Drives: 2013 e92 M3 & 2015 X3 28i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by butte2butte View Post
I've got a set of DHB's with just 4 HC. When my RR's are done after 2 (hopefully) more track days, I'll be moving to them, and they will be cleaned and prepped with Keyser tire cleaner and then Hot Lap.

I'll keep documentation, as I usually do, on track conditions and longevity.

I won't have a baseline to tell you how much further the same set would have gone without cleaning and prep, but maybe posting pace, track, conditions and total laps will be worth something against the standard use consensus if there is one.
If you want a reference. I frequently use 265 Pirelli DH/DHB 4-5HC scrubs and get 4-5 days out of them
__________________

#ladydriven Heavy-spec M3 // KW Clubsports // AA x-pipe // Gintani muffler // Macht-Schnell intake // Gintani tune // OMP Seats // Too Many Apex Wheels // Stoptech ST-60 // Cobalt Friction brake pads
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST