BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-16-2020, 01:30 AM   #23
tsk94
Captain
tsk94's Avatar
Canada
563
Rep
745
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
I can definitely confirm several of the rear arms are spherically mounted. Just not sure which aren't as I haven't removed those yet at any point. The rear main control arm is spherically mounted to the wheel carrier. Ask me how I know! Okay I'll tell you. I accidentally rotated it and got it jammed into the control arm and got extremely pissed at the extra trouble I caused haha.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by 'spherically mounted'?

A spherical mount is a solid bushing. So even the main lower control arm is NOT spherically mounted as it goes into a non-solid bushing where it is connected to the spindle and the subframe. The same applies for the 3 rear control arms and the trailing arm. The bushings in the control arms are not all solid - spherical/ball-joints are solidly mounted. That's why there are upgrades from SPL and GC for rear arm replacements that are actual spherical ends. The same can be said for the bushings that the main control arm and trailing arm mount to in the subframe and spindle. Those can be replaced with true solid bushings - in the same way the solid subframe bushings are commonly replaced.

Last edited by tsk94; 10-16-2020 at 01:43 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2020, 02:13 AM   #24
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
1421
Rep
1,926
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [0.00]
2021 Tesla Model Y  [0.00]
2003 VW Eurovan  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by 'spherically mounted'?

A spherical mount is a solid bushing. So even the main lower control arm is NOT spherically mounted as it goes into a non-solid bushing where it is connected to the spindle and the subframe. The same applies for the 3 rear control arms and the trailing arm. The bushings in the control arms are not all solid - spherical/ball-joints are solidly mounted. That's why there are upgrades from SPL and GC for rear arm replacements that are actual spherical ends. The same can be said for the bushings that the main control arm and trailing arm mount to in the subframe and spindle. Those can be replaced with true solid bushings - in the same way the solid subframe bushings are commonly replaced.
It looks like all of the rear arms aside from the trailing arm are spherically mounted to the spindle. If you check the parts diagrams they will be referred to as ball joints.

It looks like all of the mounting to the subframe is via rubber bushings, but I'm not sure about the toe arm in that regard, since it has a ball joint on at least one side and photos show both sides looking identical so it may have ball joints on both sides.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9...el_suspension/

The subframe diagram can be found there too.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2020, 02:30 AM   #25
tsk94
Captain
tsk94's Avatar
Canada
563
Rep
745
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
It looks like all of the rear arms aside from the trailing arm are spherically mounted to the spindle. If you check the parts diagrams they will be referred to as ball joints.

It looks like all of the mounting to the subframe is via rubber bushings, but I'm not sure about the toe arm in that regard, since it has a ball joint on at least one side and photos show both sides looking identical so it may have ball joints on both sides.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9...el_suspension/

The subframe diagram can be found there too.
That's correct, most of the arms have one end spherical and the other as a rubber bushing - I believe one of them is spherical both ends. Not sure on the main control arm though, I was pretty sure at least one end was a rubber bushing.

Regardless of the specifics, it's still an upgrade to go with the rear set of SPL or GC rear arms. More adjustability and full spherical mounts. The M3 GT4 replaced bushings in the rear arms and trailing arms but retained the stock arms. However I believe at the time this was mandated by rules - the bushings could be replaced but not the arms. Having one end a ball-joint is better then nothing, but a rubber bushing on the other end will result in flex/distortion under load.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2020, 02:36 AM   #26
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
1421
Rep
1,926
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [0.00]
2021 Tesla Model Y  [0.00]
2003 VW Eurovan  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
That's correct, most of the arms have one end spherical and the other as a rubber bushing - I believe one of them is spherical both ends. Not sure on the main control arm though, I was pretty sure at least one end was a rubber bushing.

Regardless of the specifics, it's still an upgrade to go with the rear set of SPL or GC rear arms. More adjustability and full spherical mounts. The M3 GT4 replaced bushings in the rear arms and trailing arms but retained the stock arms. However I believe at the time this was mandated by rules - the bushings could be replaced but not the arms. Having one end a ball-joint is better then nothing, but a rubber bushing on the other end will result in flex/distortion under load.
Yea no doubt the upgraded arms are an upgrade.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 1
tsk94562.50

      10-16-2020, 08:49 AM   #27
//steve\\
Captain
//steve\\'s Avatar
United_States
584
Rep
721
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
I can definitely confirm several of the rear arms are spherically mounted. Just not sure which aren't as I haven't removed those yet at any point. The rear main control arm is spherically mounted to the wheel carrier. Ask me how I know! Okay I'll tell you. I accidentally rotated it and got it jammed into the control arm and got extremely pissed at the extra trouble I caused haha.

The rear upper arms are a combination. Rubber on one end and spherical on the other. I believe the rubber is on the knuckle end of things. The big lower arm I believe is rubber on both ends and trailing arm is the same.
__________________
Steve::::2012 AW E92::::IG - @sjs0433
Appreciate 2
tsk94562.50
gmx114.00

      10-16-2020, 09:09 AM   #28
nicksm3
Lieutenant Colonel
nicksm3's Avatar
450
Rep
1,760
Posts

Drives: e92 m3 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Westchester NY

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS3Series View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
All SPL parts are installed and alignment thank you to ACM in Fairlawn NJ🙌🏻
Here are the current alignment specs....

I think that is a lot of rear toe isn't it? I don't know your exact tire size, but my 275/35/18 are .12 degree per side, .24 Total toe

Everything else looks awesome to me! -4.1 front camber
I am on Pirelli DH 305 square full racing slicks
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 4
//steve\\583.50
Kelse92581.00
rhyary457.50

      10-16-2020, 03:59 PM   #29
derbo
Derbo Tuning
derbo's Avatar
United_States
1801
Rep
1,932
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: ▆▆▆ ▆▆▆ ▆

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by //steve\\ View Post
The rear upper arms are a combination. Rubber on one end and spherical on the other. I believe the rubber is on the knuckle end of things. The big lower arm I believe is rubber on both ends and trailing arm is the same.


Rubber bushings:

Camber arm (one with the spring) inboard end
Upper Arm outboard end
Guide rod outboard end
Trailing arm both ends
__________________
-Derek
IG: @ruhrohz_m3
Journal
Appreciate 3
Bartledoo1420.50
911r148.50
gmx114.00

      10-16-2020, 05:06 PM   #30
911r
Second Lieutenant
911r's Avatar
149
Rep
281
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SoCal, soon

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by //steve\\ View Post
The rear upper arms are a combination. Rubber on one end and spherical on the other. I believe the rubber is on the knuckle end of things. The big lower arm I believe is rubber on both ends and trailing arm is the same.


Rubber bushings:

Camber arm (one with the spring) inboard end
Upper Arm outboard end
Guide rod outboard end
Trailing arm both ends
So ...

-SPL rear toe links,
-SPL rear upper arm links,
-Bimmerworld camber arm bushings,
-Bimmerworld rear trailing arm bushings,
-solid rear subframe bushings & solid diff bushings

Would eliminate all rubber bushings in the rear end?
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2020, 05:16 PM   #31
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
1421
Rep
1,926
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [0.00]
2021 Tesla Model Y  [0.00]
2003 VW Eurovan  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbo View Post
Rubber bushings:

Camber arm (one with the spring) inboard end
Upper Arm outboard end
Guide rod outboard end
Trailing arm both ends
Perfect, thanks! This helped me make sense of the diagrams without having to take a wheel off, since the diagrams don't make it too easy to tell which side is rubber bushing and which is spherical for the two shorter arms. So the toe arm is spherical on both ends.

Ballers on a budget have four bushings to replace then.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 1
tsk94562.50

      10-18-2020, 06:03 PM   #32
VictorH
Major
335
Rep
1,227
Posts

Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC

iTrader: (4)

My set up not as radical as what most of you are running but my tried and true set-up for me for track. Have monoballs up front, solid subframe bushings rear, Fall-lIne toe arms in rear, Fall-line solid camber shim kit, rest of suspension is stock (except for shocks/struts).

Front Camber -3.5 degrees
Rear Camber -2.25 degrees

Front toe 1/16" total toe, OUT
Rear toe 1/16" total toe, IN

Toe is old school with toe plates, but car tracks straight and I have everything marked so I can switch from street to track settings. This is my street car too, but I wouldn't run this set up long-term for street use with above alignment settings.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST