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      06-25-2020, 09:53 AM   #45
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NASA HPDE seem to vary from weekend to weekend, and of course amongst the different regions. If they have a shitty turn-out or are short on instructors, they start combining groups. I've also seen them do it if the schedule starts getting out of whack.

I agree that moving to TT should really be the ultimate goal of anyone who runs HPDEs often. I can't believe I waited so long to do it. My coach pretty much told me don't waste much time in HPDE4...once you are comfortable with unrestricted passing, just get the TT check ride.

At worst, you're out the stupid dyno/inspection fee and get a lot of great sessions with no traffic. At best, you get come contingency prizes from Hawk or Toyo.
Yeah. When we go to Roebling Road, the schedule basically stays unchanged because walls don't really exist at that track. Road Atlanta, however, seems like every session or race, there's some sort of delay due to accident or breakdown and the schedule gets REALLY out of whack. First thing to happen is combined DE3/4 and/or DE1/2.

Even then, the original schedule for the weekend typically has 3 or 4 of the sessions for the weekend combined for DE3/4, but it roughly translates to 6 or 7 combined sessions after the delays etc.

I'm really trying to get to TT, I'm between 2-6 seconds off the #1 guy in TT3 depending on the track, so won't be competing for any podiums, but most of my friends that I've met through the track are TT3 guys and being out on the track with them would be enjoyable. Can't wait to get off of this stock suspension and NT01s and start trying to be genuinely competitive.

The only way that I've found that I can get a clean lap is to grid #1 and go pretty slow on the out lap. In theory, this allows all the cars to get off of grid and out onto the track and get squished up. This usually nets me 1 or 2 clean laps. This practice gets thrown way out of whack when they send us out on a green flag and usually I just switch my focus to passing cars off line and getting practice maintaining speed off of the ideal line.

Last edited by WhiteM3EMC; 06-25-2020 at 10:00 AM..
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      06-25-2020, 10:03 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
NASA HPDE seem to vary from weekend to weekend, and of course amongst the different regions. If they have a shitty turn-out or are short on instructors, they start combining groups. I've also seen them do it if the schedule starts getting out of whack.

I agree that moving to TT should really be the ultimate goal of anyone who runs HPDEs often. I can't believe I waited so long to do it.
Yeah. When we go to Roebling Road, the schedule basically stays unchanged because walls don't really exist at that track. Road Atlanta, however, seems like every session or race, there's some sort of delay due to accident or breakdown and the schedule gets REALLY out of whack. First thing to happen is combined DE3/4 and/or DE1/2.

Even then, the original schedule for the weekend typically has 3 or 4 of the sessions for the weekend combined for DE3/4, but it roughly translates to 6 or 7 combined sessions after the delays etc.

I'm really trying to get to TT, I'm between 2-6 seconds off the #1 guy in TT3 depending on the track, so won't be competing for any podiums, but most of my friends that I've met through the track are TT3 guys and being out on the track with them would be enjoyable. Can't wait to get off of this stock suspension and NT01s and start trying to be genuinely competitive.
TT3 in SE has a good turnout. I plan to be back at Road Atlanta in December. Hope to compete with you then.
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      06-25-2020, 10:10 AM   #47
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TT3 in SE has a good turnout. I plan to be back at Road Atlanta in December. Hope to compete with you then.
I think you meant to say "Hope to embarrass you then"

But in all seriousness, that would be awesome. I will likely be living in Virginia at that time (3 hours from VIR ) but the trip to Road Atlanta is still roughly the same length from VA as it is for me now, so that's exciting.

I was combing through some of the 2019 TT results for various regions, and it seems like on average, TT3 in SE is the only region that has enough competitors to even qualify for contingency prizes. So, with that in mind, I'll certainly be making the trek (when possible) down to the SE events to try to compete for some tires.
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      06-25-2020, 10:26 AM   #48
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I'm really trying to get to TT, I'm between 2-6 seconds off the #1 guy in TT3 depending on the track, so won't be competing for any podiums, but most of my friends that I've met through the track are TT3 guys and being out on the track with them would be enjoyable. Can't wait to get off of this stock suspension and NT01s and start trying to be genuinely competitive.

The only way that I've found that I can get a clean lap is to grid #1 and go pretty slow on the out lap. In theory, this allows all the cars to get off of grid and out onto the track and get squished up. This usually nets me 1 or 2 clean laps. This practice gets thrown way out of whack when they send us out on a green flag and usually I just switch my focus to passing cars off line and getting practice maintaining speed off of the ideal line.

If you're not getting clean laps, that means you aren't in the right grid spot, or there are people behind you that need to move further up front. Ideally, there should be very little passing because the guy in front of you is a tad faster, and the guy behind you is a tad slower.



I say just do it anyway. Being behind faster cars (a rabbit) will help push you to be a little faster. And yes, switch to a faster tire if it won't throw you out of TT3 -- the Proxes RR is a good compromise.
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      06-25-2020, 10:48 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
If you're not getting clean laps, that means you aren't in the right grid spot, or there are people behind you that need to move further up front. Ideally, there should be very little passing because the guy in front of you is a tad faster, and the guy behind you is a tad slower.



I say just do it anyway. Being behind faster cars (a rabbit) will help push you to be a little faster. And yes, switch to a faster tire if it won't throw you out of TT3 -- the Proxes RR is a good compromise.
Yeah my buddies are always telling me about how nice TT is, and, watching the sessions from the spectator spots, it looks great. In SE, after the practice session in the AM, they grid you based on lap time, so, as you mention, there is very little passing.

The RRs are my next tire, which will be a step up from the NT01s, and the 295s on an 18 inch wheel are criminally cheap (like 245 a tire or something). Problem here is that I'm SLIGHTLY rubbing on my 275 NT01s, so I definitely can't run the 295 RRs on my stock suspension. These NT01s are wearing very well, so I may be able to keep them around until its time for the MCS dampers and 295 RRs.

295s are about 100 bucks cheaper per tire than 275, and there's a dead zone in the Toyo contingency program between like 265 and 295 I think. So I'd have no chance to score some Toyo bucks if I was on a 275.

I love being behind faster cars because 9/10 times I'm able to see something that they're doing differently in this or that turn, and it gives me another option to try.

When I ran my Charger at the track, I actually learned a better line through the back half of Roebling Road by following a Miata. My car probably weighed twice as much with 3x the horsepower, but, applying some of the principles he was executing shaved off a ton of time on my laps.

EDIT: Seems Amazon has 275/35R18 Toyo RRs for 287 a piece, which is only 40 bucks more per tire than the 295s. Very interesting. Don't know if my stock suspension could make the most out of that much more grip, though.

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      06-25-2020, 02:45 PM   #50
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Thinking about picking up a second set of wheels for track days.

As far as tires: Seems NT01 is a nearly unanimous suggestion - I've also seen hankook RS4 mentioned.

Anything else in that realm worth a look? The nankang AR1? Falkens?
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      06-25-2020, 02:50 PM   #51
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Thinking about picking up a second set of wheels for track days.

As far as tires: Seems NT01 is a nearly unanimous suggestion - I've also seen hankook RS4 mentioned.

Anything else in that realm worth a look? The nankang AR1? Falkens?
I vote RS4 first. You're probably not going to be comfortable with the slip angle NT01's operate at this soon. RS4 last longer and aren't that much slower either. Remember that once you go to a faster tire, you'll probably never go back to a slower tire even if it lasts longer.
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      06-25-2020, 02:53 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
Thinking about picking up a second set of wheels for track days.

As far as tires: Seems NT01 is a nearly unanimous suggestion - I've also seen hankook RS4 mentioned.

Anything else in that realm worth a look? The nankang AR1? Falkens?
I vote RS4 first. You're probably not going to be comfortable with the slip angle NT01's operate at this soon. RS4 last longer and aren't that much slower either. Remember that once you go to a faster tire, you'll probably never go back to a slower tire even if it lasts longer.
RS4 first. It will make you much better driver in long run. I switched to Nittos too early and really struggled with cat control for a couple of years.
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      06-25-2020, 03:03 PM   #53
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Agreed with Bartledoo. I went from PSS => RE71R => RS4 => NT01 => AR-1 => RR next.

Once I tried RE71R, I could not imagine going back, and RS4 was just terrible. NT01 felt slower than RE71R and less feedback, but was o.k. AR-1 finally took a step forward. RR might be a step back in pace.

Also agree about TT & rabbits. I shocked myself trying to keep up with my friend in TT, when he was in a 911 GT3, was right in front of me at grid, but he's 1-2 seconds faster. Lap 2 I blew my prior PB away by 3 seconds. Very motivating. It actually helped me too, when I saw him go a bit slower mid-corner than I, it helped me unconsciously stop applying throttle too early, and it made me faster overall in the earlier sections of the lap.
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      06-25-2020, 04:39 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
Thinking about picking up a second set of wheels for track days.

As far as tires: Seems NT01 is a nearly unanimous suggestion - I've also seen hankook RS4 mentioned.

Anything else in that realm worth a look? The nankang AR1? Falkens?





RS4 should be fine and will be usable in the wet, plus it's durable. NT01 is a faster tire but is hopeless with any standing water.
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      06-25-2020, 07:13 PM   #55
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Thanks y'all!! I'll be shopping for some RS4s soon Are they acceptable to daily short term? Or is it idiotic?
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      06-25-2020, 10:41 PM   #56
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Quote:
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I agree that moving to TT should really be the ultimate goal of anyone who runs HPDEs often. I can't believe I waited so long to do it. My coach pretty much told me don't waste much time in HPDE4...once you are comfortable with unrestricted passing, just get the TT check ride.

At worst, you're out the stupid dyno/inspection fee and get a lot of great sessions with no traffic. At best, you get come contingency prizes from Hawk or Toyo.
I have asked a few friends why they won’t just go ahead and jump to TT; they’re all pretty quick, hate traffic, are chasing after lap times on data, etc. Their reasoning? One of them totaled their car last year (mechanical failure) and was able to get the car replaced without track insurance because it was an HPDE vs “timed event” which their policy shockingly didn’t have an exclusion for. Silly reasoning IMO but is what it is.
COVID definitely messed up some of my plans this year but I’ll be joining ya in TT at some point soon!
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      06-25-2020, 11:12 PM   #57
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Thanks y'all!! I'll be shopping for some RS4s soon Are they acceptable to daily short term? Or is it idiotic?
They're fine for DD. Can't think of a better tire to drive around on and beat up on at the track, all while having good life.
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      06-25-2020, 11:13 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
I have asked a few friends why they won’t just go ahead and jump to TT; they’re all pretty quick, hate traffic, are chasing after lap times on data, etc. Their reasoning? One of them totaled their car last year (mechanical failure) and was able to get the car replaced without track insurance because it was an HPDE vs “timed event” which their policy shockingly didn’t have an exclusion for. Silly reasoning IMO but is what it is.
COVID definitely messed up some of my plans this year but I’ll be joining ya in TT at some point soon!
Wait, WHAT!? Their street policy covered them!? That's crazy.
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      06-26-2020, 12:38 AM   #59
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Really unusual to have regular auto insurance cover that. Don't count on it... what insurance carrier was that?
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      06-26-2020, 04:58 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I agree that moving to TT should really be the ultimate goal of anyone who runs HPDEs often. I can't believe I waited so long to do it. My coach pretty much told me don't waste much time in HPDE4...once you are comfortable with unrestricted passing, just get the TT check ride.

At worst, you're out the stupid dyno/inspection fee and get a lot of great sessions with no traffic. At best, you get come contingency prizes from Hawk or Toyo.
I have asked a few friends why they won’t just go ahead and jump to TT; they’re all pretty quick, hate traffic, are chasing after lap times on data, etc. Their reasoning? One of them totaled their car last year (mechanical failure) and was able to get the car replaced without track insurance because it was an HPDE vs “timed event” which their policy shockingly didn’t have an exclusion for. Silly reasoning IMO but is what it is.
COVID definitely messed up some of my plans this year but I’ll be joining ya in TT at some point soon!
One of the companies out there offers track insurance for TT. Either Hagerty or Lockton. Jackie Ding totaled his car in time attack but was insured.
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      06-26-2020, 07:41 AM   #61
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Wait, WHAT!? Their street policy covered them!? That's crazy.
Yeah nuts, don’t recall what policy it was, but because it was an “Untimed driver school” it was covered.
But yeah. Hagerty would be my go-to for a policy if I get one
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      06-26-2020, 07:46 AM   #62
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One of the companies out there offers track insurance for TT. Either Hagerty or Lockton. Jackie Ding totaled his car in time attack but was insured.
Wow I'm surprised JDing has track insurance. Must be the key to how he wheels the car like madman.

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Yeah nuts, don’t recall what policy it was, but because it was an “Untimed driver school” it was covered.
But yeah. Hagerty would be my go-to for a policy if I get one
I'm just gonna continue trying not to crash into anything too hard...and not die.
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      06-26-2020, 10:30 AM   #63
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That case seems to be the exception moreso than the standard.

I don't really consider TT any less safe than HPDE. If anything, I consider it safer because I know it's a certain caliber of person. Anyone who is serious about racing is going to run a wheel-to-wheel class.
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      06-29-2020, 09:09 PM   #64
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Mid Atlantic region was dead for TT3 last year except for Hyperfest and the Great Lakes combined event. However our first event this year (this past weekend) we had 5 saturday and 7 sunday! Which are perfect for contingencies

Also if you're going to Toyo, they are paying out 3rd place for 7 starters this year, with the same payout as 2nd place! They didn't do this last year I don't believe
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      06-29-2020, 11:12 PM   #65
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Mid Atlantic region was dead for TT3 last year except for Hyperfest and the Great Lakes combined event. However our first event this year (this past weekend) we had 5 saturday and 7 sunday! Which are perfect for contingencies

Also if you're going to Toyo, they are paying out 3rd place for 7 starters this year, with the same payout as 2nd place! They didn't do this last year I don't believe
Depends on tire size.
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      07-02-2020, 05:49 PM   #66
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Hey Y'all

Shopping for tires, and the RS4s are bascially unobtainium at the moment.

Any thought on the Yoko A052? Can't find much about them.
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