Stored for winter

CJAGZ · 04-30-2018, 04:09 AM

Hey everyone! I first want to say hello to everyone and say that I am a proud owner of a 2008 e92 M3! I look forward to talking to all of you and and gaining knowledge through all the vets in this forum. I am wondering if anyone has had this problem or code pop up:

Owned the car for 9 months now but tucked her away for winter because where I live, the snow falls would destroy the car from our city not plowing our roads properly. I had the newer OEM battery on a trickle charger all winter and it was a beautiful spring day so I decided today’s the day! Hooked it up, sat inside and started up beautifully; just like I left her in fall. I decided to let it run enough for the vehicle to warm up and then I shut it down. Went inside to have lunch and decided to go back out for a ride.

I started the car and Got the check engine light saying reduced power(put me into limp mode),emissions increased, dsc disabled, tire pressure monitor disabled. I pull the code which was P161d (throttle valve adaptation failure spring test failed bank 2) I noticed this is very similar to the code in the initial post but had f at the end instead of my d. The code’s description says could be 1 of many things. mechanical problem, faulty throttle valve, throttle valve harness is open or shorted, throttle valve circuit poor electrical connection, OR faulty engine control module.

This is where it gets weird. I thought maybe by fluke the code came up because I put the battery into the car after a long winter so I reset the code while the car was on. I shut the car off and started it again. The dash was clear; no codes! I took her for a quick boot for about 30 minutes and it ran beautifully as if nothing happened. Full power and no issues. I came back home and decided to shut the car off and start it up again to see what would happen. Again, all the same message warnings come up with the check engine light. Car runs but in limp mode. I reset the code again, turned off the car and started it back up. All warning lights disappeared. It seems I can reset the code while in the accessory position or when the car is on but the messages won’t disappear until I cut power off to the car and start it again. If I try to clear the messages while I’m in accessory and then start right after, the warnings stay and the code won’t properly clear.

Can anyone let me know if they think this could be the electrical component of the bank 2 throttle actuator?? Was this a complete fluke? I know these are really common in failing and in my service history from the previous owner it looks like bank 1 was done under warranty but I’m scratching my head...

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks everyone!

CJAGZ · 04-30-2018, 04:10 AM

So I went ahead and ordered a brand new throttle actuator. I disabled the negative battery terminal since I was working with electrical. Long story short I put it in today, started it up after everything put back together and it fired up with no codes so I thought everything was fixed. However when taking the battery off when working on car, I think it Cleared the code because the second time I turned it on, all the symptoms came back like before. So frustrated because I just spent $700 on a new throttle actuator that wasn’t broken to begin with??? What now??? Idle Control Device? That’s another $700 but I don’t want to start changing parts I don’t need to and I know that has an electric board too but it seems my idle is fine unless I start it with the code where it starts up crappy and the gas smells rich.

Just reminder that if I reset my code, my car starts and runs beautifully every time, no idle problem, no rich gas smell, has all the power and idles at approx 600rpm when warmed up. It’s the second time I boot it up where I get the limp mode power reduction, DSC disabled, tire pressure monitor disabled, etc. This problem started only when I put my battery back into my car after 5 months of winter. It ran immaculately before put away(same as if when I clear the fault code).

Same code, P161d

Can anyone please help?

m3jala · 04-30-2018, 06:52 AM

Hi there sorry to hear about the woes. I know that modern cars with all their electronics can throw a bunch of odd codes if the battery is weak. And I have read here in the forums it happening to others. How old is that battery? I believe you can easily get it tested.

GRUESOM3 · 04-30-2018, 08:01 AM

He had the battery out of the car. Meaning battery was bench trickle charged.

dparm · 04-30-2018, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJAGZ

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks everyone!

Before you spend any more time or money on replacing parts that may not even be broken, get yourself the factory service manual or BMW TIS access so you can follow the diagnostic flowchart for that specific code.

Not to get too off-topic, but why remove the battery and put it on a trickle charger? You can just leave it in the car to do that.

S65B40YYC · 04-30-2018, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

Before you spend any more time or money on replacing parts that may not even be broken, get yourself the factory service manual or BMW TIS access so you can follow the diagnostic flowchart for that specific code.

Not to get too off-topic, but why remove the battery and put it on a trickle charger? You can just leave it in the car to do that.

Where can the TIS be sourced? I dont think I have seen these available online?

SohoE93 · 04-30-2018, 08:58 AM

How did you determine it was a throttle actuator? If you had a valid reason, are you 100% confident you replaced the correct side that was failing?

dparm · 04-30-2018, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S65B40YYC

Where can the TIS be sourced? I dont think I have seen these available online?

https://www.bmwtis.com/

https://www.newtis.info/

deansbimmer · 04-30-2018, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SohoE93

How did you determine it was a throttle actuator? If you had a valid reason, are you 100% confident you replaced the correct side that was failing?

This....

CJAGZ · 04-30-2018, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3jala

Hi there sorry to hear about the woes. I know that modern cars with all their electronics can throw a bunch of odd codes if the battery is weak. And I have read here in the forums it happening to others. How old is that battery? I believe you can easily get it tested.

Yes, the battery was on trickle charge most of the winter. When charged before I set it back in it was 12.6 volts. While running it's at 14.08 volts so the battery seems healthy to me. Battery is 2014. Wouldn't a battery light show up in the dash if my battery was toast? Again, if I clear the code, the car starts without hesitation.

If you have whatsapp I can give you my phone number and I can send you a video

CJAGZ · 04-30-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

Before you spend any more time or money on replacing parts that may not even be broken, get yourself the factory service manual or BMW TIS access so you can follow the diagnostic flowchart for that specific code.

Not to get too off-topic, but why remove the battery and put it on a trickle charger? You can just leave it in the car to do that.

I live in the country and my vehicle was stored where there was no power and it gets to -40 and sometimes -50 Celsius... bleeeeping cold. I would have also had to run a 150 foot extension cord since it's that far from the house (I live out in the country). Leaving it in the car would have probably done more damage than good to the battery if left in there

If you have whatsapp I can give you my phone number and I can send you a video

CJAGZ · 04-30-2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SohoE93

How did you determine it was a throttle actuator? If you had a valid reason, are you 100% confident you replaced the correct side that was failing?

Yes, I did extensive research through this forum and followed the DIY. Bank two (driver side). Since this was the most common part that goes on these vehicles and the code had a fault pointing to bank 2, I thought forsure it was it. P161d reading was taken from 2 different readers. Bank 1 was also done by the previous owner while it was still under warranty back in 2014. I have all historical service records of the car. Don’t know if it matters but the vehicle is 6 speed manual

This is what the description is:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.auto...p161d_bmw.html
P161D BMW Description The Engine Control Module (ECM) monitors the Throttle Valve Adaptation. The ECM sets the OBDII code when the Throttle Valve Adaptation is not to factory specifications.

Could the vehicle have lost some sorts of programming specs???? I am stumped

If you have whatsapp I can give you my phone number and I can send you a video

atopa2002 · 04-30-2018, 07:55 PM

Could this be Bad alternator ?

CJAGZ · 04-30-2018, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atopa2002

Could this be Bad alternator ?

If it was bad alternator, the battery would show up in the cluster and eventually drain my battery while driving. To get to the destination to switch out my throttle actuator, I reset my code and drove it there as if the code was never there. I can drive indefinitely and the code will not reappear until I shut my car off and turn it back on. It runs perfect everytime I reset it.

deansbimmer · 05-01-2018, 08:44 AM

Don't let the fact that it runs fine the first cycle after clearing the codes stump you. The car does tons of self diagnostics. Not all of them are performed every run or drive cycle. The code is obviously present every time the DME tests for it, so follow the test procedure for the code you've got.

trustbran · 05-03-2018, 02:53 PM

I'm assuming it may have to do with the bench trickling. I trickle charge mine for long periods at times but never remove the battery from the car. I curious if that did it.

-Brandon

GRUESOM3 · 05-03-2018, 03:30 PM

I hook up atrickle charger on my car once a week until battery reaches 100 percent and this method has been working for over 5 years, no need to get battery out of car.

CJAGZ · 05-05-2018, 07:52 AM

Ok, update time...

Initial code from my reader: P161d

So, went to a shop where they had the most recent Snap On code reader. Following codes were pulled:

2B28 - throttle valve test reset springs bank 2
2B5C - throttle valve error status bank 2
2796H/10134 undocumented code.

Since I got a new actuator and replaced the one thinking that was faulty, the new actuator read the same error codes. Since bank one had been working fine, I swapped them. (From 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 to see if code followed). Same issue related to bank 2 therefore actuators are both working fine. I unclipped all electrical plugs and cleaned the insides using a electrical connector cleaning spray and lubricated using a dielectric gel. I traced all plugs and wires leading to the ECU and all in good condition.

Hooking car back up to the Snap On reader and looking at the throttle valves bank 1 and 2 nominal and actual values when foot on gas pedal:

Bank 1 nominal % : near 100%
Bank 1 actual % : near 100%

Bank 2 nominal %: near 0% (2.4% to be exact)
Bank 2 actual %: near 0% (2.4% to be exact)

This seems to have me believe there is a sensor that has gone bad since the actuators both function properly/correctly seeing as I have full power to car when code is cleared

In summary:

Both actuators: GOOD
Battery : GOOD
Electrical plugs and circuits leading to ECU: GOOD
My brain: NOT GOOD

Help?

deansbimmer · 05-05-2018, 11:47 AM

The dme reads throttle position from the sensors at the end of each throttle body rail. I suspect that sensor may be faulty. The pins inside their connectors have been known to corrode so I’d check into that next.

aftga · 02-08-2019, 11:44 AM

Hey CJAGZ

Were you able to solve the issue with your car? I have the same thing happening with my car right now, and both my actuators were also replaced.

Petlizard · 02-22-2019, 09:24 PM

Had the same issue with my 2012 e93. It kept on tripping CEL after cold start, particularly after sitting around a few days during cold temperature.
My shop ran test of VANOS and found that, while readings were in range of function test, the Bank 1 exhaust was peaking at maximum tolerance. I replaced this three days ago and the car is running flawless now. Even after cold over nights and short warm up periods.

CJAGZ · 02-23-2019, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petlizard

Had the same issue with my 2012 e93. It kept on tripping CEL after cold start, particularly after sitting around a few days during cold temperature.
My shop ran test of VANOS and found that, while readings were in range of function test, the Bank 1 exhaust was peaking at maximum tolerance. I replaced this three days ago and the car is running flawless now. Even after cold over nights and short warm up periods.

This is my exact problem!! I even burn a ton more gas! It's currently sitting in storage for the winter season but I want it fixed before spring time roles out. What exactly was the part?? How long did it take to change??The P161d calls though for an issue through the bank 2 side but it's a very generic code that can mean multiple things... are they related to which you mentioned with bank 1?

I'm also wondering If it could be the low pressure fuel sensor??

I dont have a bmw dealership, nor a shop reliable enough to do the work so I've been doing everything myself. I guess this is what I get for getting a car that's difficult to service in a smaller city

04-30-2018, 04:09 AM	#1
CJAGZ New Member 7 Rep 13 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	Stored for winter - now problems 08 e92 M3 Hey everyone! I first want to say hello to everyone and say that I am a proud owner of a 2008 e92 M3! I look forward to talking to all of you and and gaining knowledge through all the vets in this forum. I am wondering if anyone has had this problem or code pop up: Owned the car for 9 months now but tucked her away for winter because where I live, the snow falls would destroy the car from our city not plowing our roads properly. I had the newer OEM battery on a trickle charger all winter and it was a beautiful spring day so I decided today’s the day! Hooked it up, sat inside and started up beautifully; just like I left her in fall. I decided to let it run enough for the vehicle to warm up and then I shut it down. Went inside to have lunch and decided to go back out for a ride. I started the car and Got the check engine light saying reduced power(put me into limp mode),emissions increased, dsc disabled, tire pressure monitor disabled. I pull the code which was P161d (throttle valve adaptation failure spring test failed bank 2) I noticed this is very similar to the code in the initial post but had f at the end instead of my d. The code’s description says could be 1 of many things. mechanical problem, faulty throttle valve, throttle valve harness is open or shorted, throttle valve circuit poor electrical connection, OR faulty engine control module. This is where it gets weird. I thought maybe by fluke the code came up because I put the battery into the car after a long winter so I reset the code while the car was on. I shut the car off and started it again. The dash was clear; no codes! I took her for a quick boot for about 30 minutes and it ran beautifully as if nothing happened. Full power and no issues. I came back home and decided to shut the car off and start it up again to see what would happen. Again, all the same message warnings come up with the check engine light. Car runs but in limp mode. I reset the code again, turned off the car and started it back up. All warning lights disappeared. It seems I can reset the code while in the accessory position or when the car is on but the messages won’t disappear until I cut power off to the car and start it again. If I try to clear the messages while I’m in accessory and then start right after, the warnings stay and the code won’t properly clear. Can anyone let me know if they think this could be the electrical component of the bank 2 throttle actuator?? Was this a complete fluke? I know these are really common in failing and in my service history from the previous owner it looks like bank 1 was done under warranty but I’m scratching my head... Any help would be appreciated. Thanks everyone! Last edited by CJAGZ; 04-30-2018 at 07:48 PM..
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04-30-2018, 04:10 AM	#2
CJAGZ New Member 7 Rep 13 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	So I went ahead and ordered a brand new throttle actuator. I disabled the negative battery terminal since I was working with electrical. Long story short I put it in today, started it up after everything put back together and it fired up with no codes so I thought everything was fixed. However when taking the battery off when working on car, I think it Cleared the code because the second time I turned it on, all the symptoms came back like before. So frustrated because I just spent $700 on a new throttle actuator that wasn’t broken to begin with??? What now??? Idle Control Device? That’s another $700 but I don’t want to start changing parts I don’t need to and I know that has an electric board too but it seems my idle is fine unless I start it with the code where it starts up crappy and the gas smells rich. Just reminder that if I reset my code, my car starts and runs beautifully every time, no idle problem, no rich gas smell, has all the power and idles at approx 600rpm when warmed up. It’s the second time I boot it up where I get the limp mode power reduction, DSC disabled, tire pressure monitor disabled, etc. This problem started only when I put my battery back into my car after 5 months of winter. It ran immaculately before put away(same as if when I clear the fault code). Same code, P161d Can anyone please help?
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04-30-2018, 06:52 AM	#3
m3jala Captain 544 Rep 765 Posts Drives: Jet Black 2013 BMW M3 Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Tysons Corner, VA iTrader: (0)	Hi there sorry to hear about the woes. I know that modern cars with all their electronics can throw a bunch of odd codes if the battery is weak. And I have read here in the forums it happening to others. How old is that battery? I believe you can easily get it tested.
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04-30-2018, 08:01 AM	#4
GRUESOM3 Major 1092 Rep 1,318 Posts Drives: 3 NA cars and 1 Turbo car Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: NJ iTrader: (4)	He had the battery out of the car. Meaning battery was bench trickle charged.
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04-30-2018, 08:58 AM	#7
SohoE93 #topdownS65 67 Rep 133 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Tampa FL iTrader: (0)	How did you determine it was a throttle actuator? If you had a valid reason, are you 100% confident you replaced the correct side that was failing?
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04-30-2018, 07:55 PM	#13
atopa2002 Lieutenant 203 Rep 538 Posts Drives: Z3M, 2013 e92 M3, F15 X5 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Richmond,VA iTrader: (2)	Could this be Bad alternator ?
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05-01-2018, 08:44 AM	#15
deansbimmer BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3749 Rep 2,907 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: DFW, Texas iTrader: (17) Garage List 1988 BMW M3 [0.00] 2013 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 X5M [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	Don't let the fact that it runs fine the first cycle after clearing the codes stump you. The car does tons of self diagnostics. Not all of them are performed every run or drive cycle. The code is obviously present every time the DME tests for it, so follow the test procedure for the code you've got.
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05-03-2018, 02:53 PM	#16
trustbran Lieutenant 319 Rep 473 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Guam, Hawaii, SF iTrader: (2)	I'm assuming it may have to do with the bench trickling. I trickle charge mine for long periods at times but never remove the battery from the car. I curious if that did it. -Brandon
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05-03-2018, 03:30 PM	#17
GRUESOM3 Major 1092 Rep 1,318 Posts Drives: 3 NA cars and 1 Turbo car Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: NJ iTrader: (4)	I hook up atrickle charger on my car once a week until battery reaches 100 percent and this method has been working for over 5 years, no need to get battery out of car.
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05-05-2018, 07:52 AM	#18
CJAGZ New Member 7 Rep 13 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	Ok, update time... Initial code from my reader: P161d So, went to a shop where they had the most recent Snap On code reader. Following codes were pulled: 2B28 - throttle valve test reset springs bank 2 2B5C - throttle valve error status bank 2 2796H/10134 undocumented code. Since I got a new actuator and replaced the one thinking that was faulty, the new actuator read the same error codes. Since bank one had been working fine, I swapped them. (From 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 to see if code followed). Same issue related to bank 2 therefore actuators are both working fine. I unclipped all electrical plugs and cleaned the insides using a electrical connector cleaning spray and lubricated using a dielectric gel. I traced all plugs and wires leading to the ECU and all in good condition. Hooking car back up to the Snap On reader and looking at the throttle valves bank 1 and 2 nominal and actual values when foot on gas pedal: Bank 1 nominal % : near 100% Bank 1 actual % : near 100% Bank 2 nominal %: near 0% (2.4% to be exact) Bank 2 actual %: near 0% (2.4% to be exact) This seems to have me believe there is a sensor that has gone bad since the actuators both function properly/correctly seeing as I have full power to car when code is cleared In summary: Both actuators: GOOD Battery : GOOD Electrical plugs and circuits leading to ECU: GOOD My brain: NOT GOOD Help?
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05-05-2018, 11:47 AM	#19
deansbimmer BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3749 Rep 2,907 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: DFW, Texas iTrader: (17) Garage List 1988 BMW M3 [0.00] 2013 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 X5M [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	The dme reads throttle position from the sensors at the end of each throttle body rail. I suspect that sensor may be faulty. The pins inside their connectors have been known to corrode so I’d check into that next.
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02-08-2019, 11:44 AM	#20
aftga Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: BMW e93 M3 Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	P161d code Hey CJAGZ Were you able to solve the issue with your car? I have the same thing happening with my car right now, and both my actuators were also replaced.
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02-22-2019, 09:24 PM	#21
Petlizard Lieutenant 586 Rep 565 Posts Drives: C63 BS; LC500; F Pace SVR; P8 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: VA iTrader: (3)	Had the same issue with my 2012 e93. It kept on tripping CEL after cold start, particularly after sitting around a few days during cold temperature. My shop ran test of VANOS and found that, while readings were in range of function test, the Bank 1 exhaust was peaking at maximum tolerance. I replaced this three days ago and the car is running flawless now. Even after cold over nights and short warm up periods.
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