help me decide M3 v GTR

[E. Honda]

Originally Posted by Celsius

see, I'm about buying anything for a "deal", regardless of total price! If the MSRP for an M3 was 71k and people are getting them for a little over invoice, I would expect the same.

As for the GTR, the price that I paid for, I consider to be a deal!

Unless you tell us what kind of 'deal' you got, I'm going to believe that you paid at least a $15,000 mark up.

[Advskier]

Let's see.....
He couldn't get a big enough discount on an M3, but he can get a "deal" on a much more expensive car that is selling over retail and buys it?

It's "the net"

[itofigari]

...so many cars, so many choices. I guess as someone said, you need to think about what you would like to get out of your car. PERSONALY, I like European cars since I enjoy a balance between performance/race capabilities and good built/luxury....and attention to detail. I currently drive a Porsche Cayman S and are completely in love with my car. I track the car at least once a month and eventhough I have a race muffle from a GT3 RS and H&R coilovers, it still feels like a luxury car inside with subtle materials and no "plasticky parts" (I'm sure this word does not exist, doing my best here hehe) and a decent ride quality. If you ask me....$90,000...I would get the new Carrera S with PDQ...I test drove the car and it has immaculate interior and FEELS like a $90,000. The PDQ is lighting quick and real race oriented (PDK has been used by Porsche racing for years and years). If you are looking for performance with no compromise, I am afraid you will have to go Japanese...at least for now...the boys at Stuttgart WILL NOT sit still!!
I am selling my Cayman S (with great pain) since I need a sedan (soon to be a dad) and honestly, after lookign around for a while I think the M3 is probably the best option for me given what I would like to get from my car: Able to go gorcery shopping with my wife and soon to be here baby and the next day to a track day at one of many tracks in Austin (of course, I might have to play around with the stock suspension and brakes!)
The M3 gives you a nice package of sportiness and luxury....not to mention a high reving V8 with over 400HP!!!...we are the reason companies like Nissan and BMW keep putting out more powerfull cars every day so let's jst sit back and enjoy the ride!
Hope this helps man and PLEASE let me know if you know anyone looking for a NICE Cayman S.

[Advskier]

Celsius,
Looking at the list of cars you've owned, they are all Japanese. Nothing against Japanese cars, but it's pretty obvious where your bias is.
Telling us you chose a much more expensive Japanese car over the M3 because you couldn't get a big enough discount on an M3 is pretty lame.

You're coming from a suped up RX7, skipping the BMW (and Porsche) and taking the next "logical" step. Make sure you bling it out properly though, like I'm sure you did to your RX-7.

[Advskier]

Celsius,

Looks like BMW outperforms Nissan in the warranty service department too.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176810

Buy that GTR and launch it!

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by Celsius

Really though, we should settle this at the track(1/4 mile, circuit, etc)...where I would absolutely SMOKE your ass

After you do that, have fun with the mandatory track day oil change @ $80 a quart (around 10 quarts).

And also have fun taking a picture of one these (after you showed off too many times with the LC) after you fill out the form at the bottom.

(Photos courtesy of McLuvan)

[Advskier]

Originally Posted by Celsius

I Really Like the M3, just wish it had more power.
Last I checked, BMW was BEGGING people to buy the M3's just sitting on the lots (0.9%) and they still can't sell them!

Really though, we should settle this at the track(1/4 mile, circuit, etc)...where I would absolutely SMOKE your ass

Uhmm..... I'm not into guys messing with my ass so I think I'll pass on meeting you anywhere.

The 416HP M3 will pull low 4's 0-60, but it doesn't have enough power for you? You must have issues that go along with playing with guys asses.

Last I checked, every car dealer has cars sitting on the lot, and they are begging people to buy them. BMW has record M sales with the M3 leading the way.

Your GTR (if you really bought one) is new, so there aren't a lot available YET. It's a NISSAN. Do you really think NISSAN isn't going to make more cars than they can sell? What will be interesting will be to see the depreciation hit they take, when typical buyers get surprised at the maintenance of their abused NISSANS.
Also, every review has said that the materials and build of the GTR is compromised, because they had to cut corners somewhere. So let's see how your NISSAN looks in a couple of years, assuming you are going to take it to the track, like you infer.

[TLud]

I test drove a few P-cars a couple weekends ago, and the salesman (who knew I have an M3 arriving soon) took a shot at the M3 by saying that it couldn't be that good if so many were still sitting on dealer lots. I've heard this argument repeated in several different contexts, including in comparison to the GT-R. Clearly (at least it's obvious to me), there is a disparity in supply. If BMW had produced only a thousand or two M3s for the US market, there would still be lines for them and they would be going for more than MSRP despite the current economy.

I suspect that Nissan, despite the price increase, is taking a significant loss on each GT-R it sells here. Limiting supply like they have so far benefits Nissan in at least two significant ways: (1) it limits their losses, and (2) it implies a sense of exclusivity and increases the "halo" effect, which is especially important since it is, after all, only a Nissan.

[UltimateBMW]

Congrats Celsius on the GTR. Here is alittle info I've learned about it, take it for what its worth.

The ONLY reason why the GTR is not sitting on lots, and has such high demand is because there are only 1,200 cars slotted for 2008 delivery in the US. 1,200 CARS! For the entire country. They are simiulating a rediculously high demand for the car by offering equally rediculous supply. BMW has sold well over 10k M3's in the states already alone I believe.

Lets not forget that the GTR just recently when under a price increase of $8k. Bringing the MSRP, nearest makes no difference, to $80k. This price increase was a result of the fabricated scarcity they have estabolished, but the dealerships will STILL tack on an extra $10k at least to the new MSRP. Bringing the price of the car to $90k. While you might still have this much money, I can absolutely assure you that it is no longer comparable to the M3 at this price range. Especially, with the deals you can currently get an M3 at right now. We are talking a 30k difference, or 1/2 the price of an M3.

This MSRP increase of $8,000 is grandfathered in to EVERY car not ordered before Sept. 5th. Judging by the date of your post with the picture, I'd venture a guess that you missed the boat and had to pay up. A deal is always good, but looking at total cost is also important. And you paid a fair bit more, I'm certain. It would seem you don't really understand what M division is really about anyways, so it's probably the correct decision for you. You car does look great, so I wish you the best with it.

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by Celsius

Krueger M3, I heard about your M3...sorry to hear about that, it looked good. Also, I know about the tranny "gear strength" problems, but as long as it's not abused "using LC" constantly, it'll be taken care of through warranty.

Thanks, I didn't mean to sound like a total jerk, I too was thinking of buying a GTR, but due to the extreme mark-ups and maintenance I opted not too. You should bring it to a meet in Oregon.

[UltimateBMW]

In the end, if your happy that is all that matters.

Your GTR does look great, and its not a bad choice by any means. Just different priorities.

Enjoy the hell out of it!

[Advskier]

So,
Celsius shows up on an M3 forum, trying to decide whether to get an M3 or GTR. The GTR's are known to take forever to order.
He decides to get the GTR, and gets delivery immediately. Obviously his mind was made up before he even posted here, and he had the GTR on order.
I'd say as small as the back seat is in that GTR, his private's should still get lost in them.
Isn't there a GTR forum for him to troll around in?

[ideliver]

Wow congrats on the car...

But the pics beg the question...and everyone can spend their money as they see fit...but...looks like a lower middle class neighborhood...home to F-150's and minivans...

Not $80,000 supercars...

[xrayos]

I don't understand all the bashing that goes around in here. It's a enthusiast's car forum. I like both the M3 and GTR. I've had prior M3s and have a E92 on order. Now, I also just put a deposit down on a GTR. I'm still undecided. I wish I could get both and a third (Porsche GT3), but my finances do not allow it. For the price differential 65k-70k for the m3 and 73k-80k for the GTR that's not a lot. approx 10k difference.

Now it boils down to styling, performance, and quality. Can't we just have a nice discussion and enjoy the cars without bashing each other.

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by xrayos

Can't we just have a nice discussion and enjoy the cars without bashing each other.

HAHAHA.....no.....if you want a nice discussion...try e90post....

But in all seriousness....can regular people actually buy the GTR...when i stopped into 2 dealers last year...they basically laughed at me...I think i could get an Enzo b4 a GTR....

[xrayos]

seriously, though for approximately a 10K difference, I think the performance of the GTR is worth it. I'm still torn between both.

[ideliver]

I guess my question is...can you walk into a dealership and buy a GTR...my experience was that this was an impossibility...only 1200 cars being delivered in the US...and only 50% of the dealerships delivering cars...many dealerships did not do the necessary service deptartment upgrades (new lifts, nitrogen systems for tires) that was required to sell the cars...(i was told by the owner...$50,000 to $100,000) for many dealers..

[ersin]

Originally Posted by ideliver

...many dealerships did not do the necessary service deptartment upgrades (new lifts, nitrogen systems for tires) that was required to sell the cars...

I can believe that. In fact, I believe many Nissan service departments don't even have the necessary equipment to take care of "ordinary" Nissans.

[Advskier]

Apparantly all those remarks Celsius made about M#'s piling up on dealer lots are b.s. too.
He couldn't get the color or discount on the M3, but he could walk into a Nissan dealership and get exactly what he wanted, at a better deal than an M3.

I'll be taking my underpowered M3 to the dealership in 10 days for the software update for the DCT. They will have a $50K loaner car for me, bottled water, cappacino, and snacks. My car will be returned washed with a bottle of water in the cupholder. I wonder how the Nissan dealer will treat Celsius?

[TLud]

Originally Posted by Advskier

Apparantly all those remarks Celsius made about M#'s piling up on dealer lots are b.s. too.
He couldn't get the color or discount on the M3, but he could walk into a Nissan dealership and get exactly what he wanted, at a better deal than an M3.

I'll be taking my underpowered M3 to the dealership in 10 days for the software update for the DCT. They will have a $50K loaner car for me, bottled water, cappacino, and snacks. My car will be returned washed with a bottle of water in the cupholder. I wonder how the Nissan dealer will treat Celsius?

If he's the kind of guy who pays large sums of money for sex with men, I think he'll be right at home. He'll get the shaft and then have to pay out the wazoo for it.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by xrayos

seriously, though for approximately a 10K difference, I think the performance of the GTR is worth it. I'm still torn between both.

Originally Posted by xrayos

I don't understand all the bashing that goes around in here. It's a enthusiast's car forum. I like both the M3 and GTR. I've had prior M3s and have a E92 on order. Now, I also just put a deposit down on a GTR. I'm still undecided. I wish I could get both and a third (Porsche GT3), but my finances do not allow it. For the price differential 65k-70k for the m3 and 73k-80k for the GTR that's not a lot. approx 10k difference.

Now it boils down to styling, performance, and quality. Can't we just have a nice discussion and enjoy the cars without bashing each other.

Its all in how you look at the situation, honestly. Yes, it can be viewed as "only" $10k. But its not like $10k is an arbitrary amount of money. That is a nice chunk of the price. $10k is about 1/6 the price of an M3, and 1/8 the price of a GTR. 16.6% over the base price of an M3.

I'm certainly not arguing that its not a great value for performance:money. But it is a definite difference. If you have the money, then your greater amount of money will buy the greater performing car. But lets not act like these 2 cars are comparable anymore. Their performance, and now their price is not on the same page anymore.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Its all in how you look at the situation, honestly. Yes, it can be viewed as "only" $10k. But its not like $10k is an arbitrary amount of money. That is a nice chunk of the price. $10k is about 1/6 the price of an M3, and 1/8 the price of a GTR. 16.6% over the base price of an M3.

I'm certainly not arguing that its not a great value for performance:money. But it is a definite difference. If you have the money, then your greater amount of money will buy the greater performing car. But lets not act like these 2 cars are comparable anymore. Their performance, and now their price is not on the same page anymore.

And don't forget to factor in the 4 yr/ 50K free maintenance for the BMW versus cost of maintenance for the GTR. Given what reports are saying about GTR maintenance, it doesn't looks so good for the GTR on paper any more.