VAC Motorsports | VAC 4.4 S65 Stroker Kit Build (CP, Carrillo, Darton, Schrick)

[IMG]

Approximate cost of a build like this :
Darton Sleeves $2400
Crank $4500
Rods $2400
Pistons $2400
Head Gaskets $400
Engine Gaskets and Seals $1500
Dry Sump $7000
Motec Stand Alone ECU & Wiring Harnesses $12500
Labor $4000
Dyno $1200
Tuning $1600
Schrick Cams $4000

Total $43900

[JoM3z]

Time to withdraw the college funds for my future kids

Originally Posted by img

Approximate cost of a build like this :
Darton Sleeves $2400
Crank $4500
Rods $2400
Pistons $2400
Head Gaskets $400
Engine Gaskets and Seals $1500
Dry Sump $7000
Motec Stand Alone ECU & Wiring Harnesses $12500
Labor $4000
Dyno $1200
Tuning $1600
Schrick Cams $4000

Total $43900

[IMG]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

Time to withdraw the college funds for my future kids

You should,I'd personally ditch the sleeves tho but again thats just me cause ALUSIL proved its durability based on what i saw when i took my motor apart.

[mdoughty]

In my view the dry sump is superfluous, but no doubt this is the best way to do a track built motor. I wonder about the heat transfer ability of the sleeves as well.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by mdoughty

In my view the dry sump is superfluous, but no doubt this is the best way to do a track built motor. I wonder about the heat transfer ability of the sleeves as well.

The stock oil pump is very efficient and up for the job and i don't buy anyone saying motor were blown cause the oil pump,BS !

[JoM3z]

That would be the easy part, convincing the wife would be a battle I'd never win but man this is sooooooo damn tempting. I do wonder the longevity of the engine? That and if raw performance is what we all want, wouldn't it make more sense waiting for the new M3/M4?

Originally Posted by img

You should,I'd personally ditch the sleeves tho but again thats just me cause ALUSIL proved its durability based on what i saw when i took my motor apart.

[Brian_VACsales]

I will touch on price in the proper forum with a proper for sale thread This engine, dry sump kit, ECU, harness etc came in around 35k.

Stock bores are often absolutely fine - no doubt. One of our partners has cranked out some amazing and durable S65s without sleeves.

We have 1000s of sleeves in race motors that keep on going. We are sleeving 2 S62s, 1 M62 and 2 S54s these next 2 weeks in the shop.

http://www.vacmotorsports.com/blog/a...our-bmw-engine

[IMG]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

That would be the easy part, convincing the wife would be a battle I'd never win but man this is sooooooo damn tempting. I do wonder the longevity of the engine? That and if raw performance is what we all want, wouldn't it make more sense waiting for the new M3/M4?

Haha,dont tell her a thing and just surprise her ,An engine like this stroked NA,sleeved and all these goodies will last.Depending on your driving !
I can't wait to see the new M4 and some real specs .

[JoM3z]

I was talking to a friend from Saudi and we were discussing this topic. He was telling me how they would rather do a V10 transplant than a stroker engine. This got me curious as well, would this be an ideal thing to do? cost vs performance gain?

Originally Posted by img

Haha,dont tell her a thing and just surprise her ,An engine like this stroked NA,sleeved and all these goodies will last.Depending on your driving !
I can't wait to see the new M4 and some real specs .

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by img

Approximate cost of a build like this :
Darton Sleeves $2400
Crank $4500
Rods $2400
Pistons $2400
Head Gaskets $400
Engine Gaskets and Seals $1500
Dry Sump $7000
Motec Stand Alone ECU & Wiring Harnesses $12500
Labor $4000
Dyno $1200
Tuning $1600
Schrick Cams $4000

Total $43900

What's the cost on your motor?

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

I was talking to a friend from Saudi and we were discussing this topic. He was telling me how they would rather do a V10 transplant than a stroker engine. This got me curious as well, would this be an ideal thing to do? cost vs performance gain?

Waste IMO... The aftermarket potential is significantly more explored (and established) on the S65 platform vs S85 V10. It'd prob be less expensive (and less of a headache) to just stroke the motor built for the E9x M3 as opposed to transplanting the S85 & having to rewire a new DME (or standalone) and hope for OEM-like fitment.

Best bang for buck performance mod with the S65 is a supercharger. For around $15k, you can get kits from VF Engineering, ESS or AA that are advertised for 650 BHP (over a 200 BHP gain on a stock setup)

[JoM3z]

I have considered super charging the car, but I had to priorities the fund. At the moment my wife's business comes first, but she did promise that when the business does well, I can join the big boys club. Here's to hoping and maybe a VT super charger in the near future.

Originally Posted by benzy89

Waste IMO... The aftermarket potential is significantly more explored (and established) on the S65 platform vs S85 V10. It'd prob be less expensive (and less of a headache) to just stroke the motor built for the E9x M3 as opposed to transplanting the S85 & having to rewire a new DME (or standalone) and hope for OEM-like fitment.

Best bang for buck performance mod with the S65 is a supercharger. For around $15k, you can get kits from VF Engineering, ESS or AA that are advertised for 650 BHP (over a 200 BHP gain on a stock setup)

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

I have considered super charging the car, but I had to priorities the fund. At the moment my wife's business comes first, but she did promise that when the business does well, I can join the big boys club. Here's to hoping and maybe a VT super charger in the near future.

-- I'd just say keep your eyes open for quality used kits or quality deals on the established products. Won't be surprised once BMW starts taking orders for the new M3/M4, that a LOT of people start parting out.


About your previous statement (whether or not it'd be worth waiting for the new M3/M4), there's a lot of variables:

• The new TT-I6 obviously won't sound as glorious as the S65
• Stock vs Stock, yes the new M will be faster. But the E9x M3s also have ~5 years of aftermarket performance going for it
• Do you have the patience to wait for new, safe, proven aftermarket products for the new M? I don't think you'd wanna turn your brand new ~$60k M into a guiena pig for tunes

Assuming the new M motor is mod-friendly like the N54, it'll be great to see the HP numbers jump with quality tuning (especially with E85) and mods (downpipes, aftermarket turbos, etc)

[JoM3z]

Totally agree with you and lately I've seen some well priced SC Kits. The dilemma I had before was my 2 year warranty. Few folks here suggested waiting till the two year warranty lapses then super charge the car. To be honest, the car is fast enough, though I wish it had more low end torque. Aside from that I'm content with the performance. I was thinking a VT2 575 kit, easily upgraded to 600+.

I love the high revving engine and I don't plan to sell or trade my car in for the new M3/M4 anytime soon.

Originally Posted by benzy89

-- I'd just say keep your eyes open for quality used kits or quality deals on the established products. Won't be surprised once BMW starts taking orders for the new M3/M4, that a LOT of people start parting out.


About your previous statement (whether or not it'd be worth waiting for the new M3/M4), there's a lot of variables:

• The new TT-I6 obviously won't sound as glorious as the S65
• Stock vs Stock, yes the new M will be faster. But the E9x M3s also have ~5 years of aftermarket performance going for it
• Do you have the patience to wait for new, safe, proven aftermarket products for the new M? I don't think you'd wanna turn your brand new ~$60k M into a guiena pig for tunes

Assuming the new M motor is mod-friendly like the N54, it'll be great to see the HP numbers jump with quality tuning (especially with E85) and mods (downpipes, aftermarket turbos, etc)

[RingMeister01]

This kit is just too sexy!
Though stroker kits are the priciest approach to gaining power, nothing beats attaining a naturally aspirated motors characteristic.
We are entering a new era of engines that reflect heightened economic and environmental constraints. I have no doubt the next M3 motor will be any less sensational or receive less praise than the one it is superseding. This is BMW.
To an engine that was built purely on passion and may never be seen again. Long live the S65!

[bigjae1976]

It all depends on the service demands. Frequent track use? Hot climates? I'd stick with an N/A build.

[mdoughty]

Any dyno charts or video yet?

[ussoldierforhire]

subbed for the dyno charts

[Skunk]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

One major drawback I see with sleeves in the S65 is heat transfer is greatly reduced when going from an aluminium bore to a cast iron liner (Alusil conducts heat at a rate 400% higher than that of cast iron). Since the S65 is very sensitive to knock, and knock is usually a result of higher cylinder temperatures, any means a person can take to get rid of heat will benefit the engine by means of additional timing and reduced detonation risk. Sleeves may be good, but I have yet to see the S65 block itself fail without a rod first failing and going through the side of it. Personally I don't think anyone has gotten to the HP celling of the block casting yet and I would like to see it pushed harder before people just start doing sleeves out of fear.

FYI, not all cylinder liners are iron. There are some Aluminum Metal Matrix Composite liners, but the do cost more (more expensive materials and manufacturing processes). The MMC liners do have a thermal conductivity near that of aluminum, but depends on the volume fraction of ceramic particulate, which usually ranges between 20-60%.

Cylinder liners will also be used on blocks when the increase of the bore diameter leads to rather thin cylinder walls that can no longer handle the stresses of the combustion. Some engine designers utilize sleeves to their advantage to try to get the smallest and lightest block possible and work in into the design from the beginning.

Good job describing the oleophilic nature of Alusil

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

A dry sump setup allows for a much shallower pan. With a shallower pan, you have much more clearance to lower the motor down (Yes, that means new motor mounts if you do want to lower the motor down). The dry sump system itself would not lower the center of mass, but because of the shallower pan, it gives you more room and allows you to run the motor lower in the car, which in turn lowers your center of mass. A dry sump setup does not cause a lower in CG. The ability to lower your motor because of a shallower pan however does.

I think he was getting at why the dry sump would lower the CG if the engine was not lowering. There is still the transmission, which isn't changing unless you want to fork over some $$$ for an Xtrac, Ricardo, or Hewland, so the engine would not be moving lower otherwise. In addition to the reduced windage, as mentioned, you could also see a reduction of the amount of oil needed if the system is well designed. This would result from work on reducing aeration of the oil from spinning it in the reservoir tank. The reservoir can be place closer to the CG than where the oil pan is located and less sloshing of the oil can also make the CG slightly more stable as well.

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

How many nikasil/alusil engines have you built/sleeved? How many sleeves have you supplied to people with these engines? We have done a bunch .

Mike, many years ago, I was working on sleeving a motorcycle engine. One of the things that needed to be considered what the deformation of the bore at temperature. When you guys are sleeving the engine, are you mounting a heat exchanger to the top of the block to simulate the operating conditions, thermally?

[Brian_VACsales]

Sorry for the delay guys.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

Sorry for the delay guys.

you draw that yourself? lol, looks like connect the dots

[VCMpower]

I would love to see a video so I can hear this beauty! What an amazing build that will be.

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

Sorry for the delay guys.