Very Strange Non Start Issue When Cold

[AdDaMan]

Hi. Has anybody ever come across something similar?

Im in the UK, when the temperature starts to drop during winter, every single year my M3 starts to mess around and not start.

No turning over, just a click from the cabin when start is pushed. Batt at approx 12.2-12.3v when trying.

Had 2 new batteries last year.

Perfect all summer/spring.

Now this is the weird part, i charged it over night as i hadn't driven it in 7 weeks so thought the voltage had dropped too much. Went to start it the next day when fully charged and it was exactly the same.

The only way it will start, is if i read the battery data in Carly, and then re-register the same battery. Its then starts first time?!!
What the hell is going on?

[Brandoch]

The only thing that I can comment on is that carly does not properly register batteries.

[AdDaMan]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

The only thing that I can comment on is that carly does not properly register batteries.

Yeah i also found that out last year!

[AdDaMan]

Nobody come accross similar?

[amrazM]

a click is the starter solenoid.

[AdDaMan]

Originally Posted by amrazM

a click is the starter solenoid.

The solenoid that’s attached directly to the starter?

[AdDaMan]

Bump.

[drrust]

Time to replace the starter. Have you checked your codes? I went through a similar issue. Replaced the starter and issue was resolved.

[MineralWhiteF80]

Originally Posted by AdDaMan

The only way it will start, is if i read the battery data in Carly, and then re-register the same battery. Its then starts first time?!!

The sentence above is the crazy part that makes me completely question diagnosing this problem as 'starter motor failure.' Why would reprogramming the battery registration cure a failed starter motor?

Normally, hearing a 'click' from the starter motor indicates a weak battery or a starter motor problem, but that goes out the window if you can reset a computer setting and then everything works. Im not saying it ISNT the starter, as it definitely could be, it's just odd.

A battery can test good by voltage, but still not have the amount of cranking amps required to allow the starter motor to spin the engine. Have you tried jump starting the car using jumper cables and another car and see if anything changes? That should give you enough voltage AND cranking amps for the starter to do its thing.

I think I'd look more into the battery registration procedure using ISTA and see what troubleshooting/test plans there might be for the battery/failure to start issue.

[drrust]

Search starter, there are many different threads and a couple of DIYs.

May want to verify it’s not the ground cable by using a jumper cable between the block and the body.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1142234


https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827773

Other issues mentioned in the above threads. Many have resolved the issue with a starter.

[MineralWhiteF80]

what's hilarious is later on that same day I comment on this thread, I tried to start my e92 and it would not crank whatsoever. The ignition turns on normally, no error messages, but but it does not crank at all, no clicking, just nothing. It's as if my push button starter is not connected to anything or like Im not depressing the brake pedal (DCT). After sitting in the car trying again and again, the car finally cranked normally after attempting to start it at least 30 times.

Looks like this will be fun to fun to figure out. Hopefully it's an old battery since it's getting cold here in Georgia now. Great excuse to spend 1000 bucks on an AntiGravity battery.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by AdDaMan

Hi. Has anybody ever come across something similar? Im in the UK, when the temperature starts to drop during winter, every single year my M3 starts to mess around and not start. No turning over, just a click from the cabin when start is pushed. Batt at approx 12.2-12.3v when trying. Had 2 new batteries last year. Perfect all summer/spring. Now this is the weird part, i charged it over night as i hadn't driven it in 7 weeks so thought the voltage had dropped too much. Went to start it the next day when fully charged and it was exactly the same. The only way it will start, is if i read the battery data in Carly, and then re-register the same battery. Its then starts first time?!!What the hell is going on?

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

what's hilarious is later on that same day I comment on this thread, I tried to start my e92 and it would not crank whatsoever. The ignition turns on normally, no error messages, but but it does not crank at all, no clicking, just nothing. It's as if my push button starter is not connected to anything or like Im not depressing the brake pedal (DCT). After sitting in the car trying again and again, the car finally cranked normally after attempting to start it at least 30 times.

Looks like this will be fun to fun to figure out. Hopefully it's an old battery since it's getting cold here in Georgia now. Great excuse to spend 1000 bucks on an AntiGravity battery.

Believe it or not it's your battery. Any at rest and "charged" battery voltage value of <=12.6V is BAD. A fully charged AGM OEM battery voltage value is ?13.2V. See images attached. When the car and ambient temps are cold in the winter the oil is thicker and the battery cold cranking capacity comes into play. REPLACE your M3's battery.

[MineralWhiteF80]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Believe it or not it's your battery. Any at rest and "charged" battery voltage value of <=12.6V is BAD. A fully charged AGM OEM battery voltage value is ?13.2V. See images attached. When the car and ambient temps are cold in the winter the oil is thicker and the battery cold cranking capacity comes into play. REPLACE your M3's battery.

Checked my battery during lunch.... Hooked up the M4 to the M3 with jumper cables and the M3 started immediately. Looks Ill get be ordering me 40Ah AntiGravity lightweight battery.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

Checked my battery during lunch.... Hooked up the M4 to the M3 with jumper cables and the M3 started immediately. Looks Ill get be ordering me 40Ah AntiGravity lightweight battery.

Any new battery has to be properly registered to the DME. This is so the alternator will charge it correctly. Otherwise the new battery will be depleted from undercharging or fried from over charging. An alternative is to buy an identical or very close spec to what is already in the car assuming said existing battery was already properly registered. The milliamp hour (mAhr) new battery spec rating is what the alternator needs to ‘know’ - if I recall correctly.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Believe it or not it's your battery. Any at rest and "charged" battery voltage value of <=12.6V is BAD. A fully charged AGM OEM battery voltage value is ?13.2V. See images attached. When the car and ambient temps are cold in the winter the oil is thicker and the battery cold cranking capacity comes into play. REPLACE your M3's battery.

That is a surface charge and not accurate. For a high quality AGM (TPPL), a resting voltage (with no surface charge nor loads) will have an OCV of 12.9V equivalating to 100% charge. Other AGM batteries might have an OCV of up to 12.8V for 100% charge (this is a sales pitch from Odyssey). Do keep in mind temperature plays a role in OCV as well.

Having an OCV 12.6v would not suggest a bad battery, but rather a state of charge that is circa 75%. A load test would need to be performed--whether with a carbon pile or conductance test to actually determine if a battery is bad. (keep in mind this is for AGM batteries--i'm sure nobody is running and wet cell as that would have different voltages, but it is possible)

Since the winter months are approaching, I am going to be "putting away" my M3, and with that, disconnecting the battery after I fully charge it. That way I don't have to constantly float charge it due to the parasitic loads from all the modules on the car keeping it connected.

For the OP, I would suggest actually troubleshooting your no-start problem--or taking it to someone who can properly diagnose it. In my experience, I confirmed a good starter by "jumping" the solenoid and then looked elsewhere like the CAS module, as an example.

[DrFerry]

MineralWhiteF80 and AdDaMan Let us know how the new battery works out.

[AdDaMan]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

MineralWhiteF80 and AdDaMan Let us know how the new battery works out.

I am already on my 3rd battery. It is CATEGORICALLY not the battery at fault.

[AdDaMan]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

The sentence above is the crazy part that makes me completely question diagnosing this problem as 'starter motor failure.' Why would reprogramming the battery registration cure a failed starter motor?

Normally, hearing a 'click' from the starter motor indicates a weak battery or a starter motor problem, but that goes out the window if you can reset a computer setting and then everything works. Im not saying it ISNT the starter, as it definitely could be, it's just odd.

A battery can test good by voltage, but still not have the amount of cranking amps required to allow the starter motor to spin the engine. Have you tried jump starting the car using jumper cables and another car and see if anything changes? That should give you enough voltage AND cranking amps for the starter to do its thing.

I think I'd look more into the battery registration procedure using ISTA and see what troubleshooting/test plans there might be for the battery/failure to start issue.

yep exactly, this is what makes me question everything otherwise i'd just do the starter. Just doesnt make sence.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by AdDaMan

I am already on my 3rd battery. It is CATEGORICALLY not the battery at fault.

Are you registering the battery to the DME? If so by what method? IF the alternator isn’t charging the battery correctly it will either fry it or deplete it. This might be why you’re going through so many batteries. There are hundreds of threads about this on the forum. Whatever it turns out to be please let us know.

[AdDaMan]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Are you registering the battery to the DME? If so by what method? IF the alternator isn’t charging the battery correctly it will either fry it or deplete it. This might be why you’re going through so many batteries. There are hundreds of threads about this on the forum. Whatever it turns out to be please let us know.

This current battery was coded with Carly until i realised it doesn't actually do it properly. so it was then properly done with ista or whatever the software was that the auto elec used. Last year i took it to him and stayed with him for about 2 weeks while he monitored batt values and drains etc and basically found nothing at all and charged me a fortune for the pleasure.

I have found though, whilst driving and monitoring voltages via carly, the values are red. but im not sure what is right or not.

[AdDaMan]

Just been out to the car to have a look around.
Not been unlocked for 3 weeks.
vent gauge showed 12.1v (IBS) when ignition on.
Started instantly. WTF.
Temp is mild for this time of year at 12deg C. 100% is temperature dependant.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by AdDaMan

Just been out to the car to have a look around.
Not been unlocked for 3 weeks.
vent gauge showed 12.1v (IBS) when ignition on.
Started instantly. WTF.
Temp is mild for this time of year at 12deg C. 100% is temperature dependant.

Yeah your voltage should be good to start the car. For ref mine is typically just under 12v after opening and still start right away (too little driving and no pwr outlet available).

Have you managed to confirm that its not the starter motor that goes nuts in low temp?