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      04-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
not exactly. no aftermarket coilover continues to use edc. a coilover that is compatable with edc just includes a module to clear the code not make edc work. a non edc car doesnt need this module so it comes without it, hence the 2 different kits. one for edc equiped cars and one for non edc. both cars will just be adjustable on the body of the coilover after the conversion and not use edc at all. the button wont work.
Yes, I got it. My question is, is the module a must have for EDC cars? Because KW competition only have one kit, I assume it work on both EDC/NONE EDC.
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      04-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #46
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right it works on either and the module is needed for the edc car.
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      04-07-2012, 10:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I heard so many horror stories about 4 point harnesses
Even Schroth ASM harnesses?
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      04-08-2012, 01:19 PM   #48
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do tell. what type of horror stories? when harnesses attack!
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      04-08-2012, 01:32 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I heard so many horror stories about 4 point harnesses, I feel safer using my OEM 3 point even if I move around more. Since going to a 5 point requires changing the seat, that is out of the question for me.
I fully disagree. I've used both the OEM belt and 4 point harness in my 330. I'm never distracted by pain or uncomfortable with the Schroth quick-fits. It was a revelation when I went back to the OEM belts in my M3 because I felt way more physically worn out after a session. The adjustable side bolsters help. Lucky for me, I have DCT. If I didn't, I feel like there would be a much higher chance of missing a shift, foot slipping off a pedal, etc.

So, again, I'm coming from the standpoint that 4pt belts ARE safer because they provide a significant increase in the control you have over the car especially in a turn.

Plus, you've heard...never tried. I've also heard that there are flying pigs and honest politicians...just saying.
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      04-08-2012, 02:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
do tell. what type of horror stories? when harnesses attack!
If he's talking about "submarining", where you slide down and under the lap belt, that does sound pretty bad. That was the whole point behind Schroth's ASM feature.

Schroth Engineering :: Safety Through Technology

I wouldn't buy a 4-point without it.
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      04-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I fully disagree. I've used both the OEM belt and 4 point harness in my 330. I'm never distracted by pain or uncomfortable with the Schroth quick-fits. It was a revelation when I went back to the OEM belts in my M3 because I felt way more physically worn out after a session. The adjustable side bolsters help. Lucky for me, I have DCT. If I didn't, I feel like there would be a much higher chance of missing a shift, foot slipping off a pedal, etc.

So, again, I'm coming from the standpoint that 4pt belts ARE safer because they provide a significant increase in the control you have over the car especially in a turn.

Plus, you've heard...never tried. I've also heard that there are flying pigs and honest politicians...just saying.
I understand your point. I used 4 point harnesses back in the days I was racing a Mark II GTI (yeah I know, a long time ago ). The 4 point harness does hold you really well in the seat while you are driving. Your arms and feet are free to control the car and your butt gets a very good appreciation of the car's behaviour. Perfect for heel and toe, left foot braking and so on.

However, the risk comes when you are in an accident. With the force of the impact, your torso moves forward and pushes on the shoulder belts. These in turn pull the lap belts upward. So the lap belt is no longer holding you hips firmly against the seat bottom. Instead, it straps around your belly destroying your internal organs in the process . This is what is commonly called submarining.

This is where the fifth point comes in. It essentially holds the lap belt down and against your hips in an impact. However you need to ensure you are properly and firmly strapped in for it to work properly.

Three point harnesses are designed in a way that when your torso moves forward, the shoulder belt tightens the the lap belt. Made even move efficient with pre-tensioners installed in most modern cars.

Very interesting read on the Schroth harness. Thank you Drifty//. They seem to have found a way to work around the problem by leveraging the OEM pre-tensioner system. I will definitely look into it more .

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-09-2012 at 01:14 PM..
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      04-08-2012, 04:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I understand your point. I used 4 point harnesses back in the days I was racing a Mark II GTI (yeah I know, a long time ago ). The 4 point harness does hold you really well in the seat while you are driving. Your arms and feet are free to control the car and your but gets a very good appreciation of the car's behaviour. Perfect for heel and toe, left foot braking and so on.

However, the risk comes when you are in an accident. With the force of the impact, your torso moves forward and pushes on the shoulder belts. These in turn pull the lap belts upward. So the lap belt is no longer holding you hips firmly against the seat bottom. Instead, it straps around your belly destroying your internal organs in the process.

That is where the fifth point comes in. It essentially hold the lap belt down and against your hips in an impact. However you need to ensure you are properly and firmly strapped in for it to work properly.

Three point harnesses are designed in a way that when your torso moves forward, the shoulder belt tightens the the lap belt. Made even move efficient with pre-tensioners installed in most modern cars.

Very interesting read on the Schroth harness. Thank you Drifty//. They seem to have found a way to work around the problem by leveraging the OEM pre-tensioner system. I will definitely look into it more .
The Army uses a similar 4pt system. The key is you have to tighten the lap belt first, low on the hips. Then you tighten the shoulder straps. Even on a 5pt. I've seen quite a few instructors not understand that when they get into my car.

Schroth 4pts incorporate anti-submarining technology for what its worth.
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      04-08-2012, 06:39 PM   #53
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What are you all's thoughts on 4 point and HANS devices?
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      04-08-2012, 07:07 PM   #54
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Don't see how it could hurt but none of the non-quick fit 4 pts will really work with HANS. The quick fit pro does but there's nothing for the E9X chassis yet.
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      04-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhouzitao View Post
I Just learned that! So basically EDC car can get none EDC kit, and should not have any problem? except the code,which can be cleared use a code reader.
Yes non-EDC kits will work on EDC cars, and vice versa. Only note is that the non-EDC kit uses a smaller stem on the rear shocks, so you will need to buy non-EDC upper mounts from BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
yup. Brakes and harnesses are at the top of my list. I plan to do some research, but any quick pointers to share about either?
Brakes... if budget is important, get a front kit only. Brembo and StopTech are both great kits. Both will work excellent with the high performance pads that come with the kit (if you are doing HPDE). Parts cost (pads, rotors, etc) will be higher on Brembo. I don't have much experience on AP or Alcon.
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      04-09-2012, 07:56 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
What are you all's thoughts on 4 point and HANS devices?
From the Schroth web site:

Current Head And Neck Supports (HANSŪ) provide further reduction of head deceleration and neck bending.

The asmŪ system on all SCHROTH Rallye and QuickFit belts - excluding the new QuickFit Pro - is not compatible the with HANSŪ. Only belts having a center RFR Cam lock can be used with HANSŪ.

We recommend that only non asmŪ belts be used in competition harnessbelts.

Racing harnesses without asmŪ must be worn with an anti-sub strap!
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      04-10-2012, 02:22 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
excluding the new QuickFit Pro
Right, so the answer is that you can only use a HANS with the 4-point that's not yet available for the E9x.

Incidentally, I have the QickFit Pro for my A4. It's really nice, except I wish it had the twist cam lock. I don't care about DOT, since I only used them on the street to get acclimated to the sensation of driving while strapped in. Otherwise, it's too inconvenient & restrictive for street use.
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      07-11-2012, 11:47 PM   #58
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Reporting back after my first 2-day HPDE in my EDC E92.


Pad changes in the stock calipers suck. I didn't realize how the clips on the stock pads positioned the caliper for you, and it took me forever to get the pins back in with track pads. Then, there's the wonderful anti-rattle clip and the wear sensor. Brake fluid seemed to be coming from somewhere, but I couldn't figure out where. I'm done messing around with the stock brakes.

Also, while modulation is pretty good, the stock brakes feel rather squishy. I'll be upgrading these very soon.


EDC is crap. The car handles more like a friggin truck. The stock spring rate is incredibly low. If you've had coilovers and know what you're getting into, I'd say skip EDC and buy a good set of coilovers with the savings. I have a coilover suspension on my A4 and it feels so much more controlled and nimble than the M3, and that just ain't right.

I'm planning on getting a spring & sleeve kit before my next track day, assuming it works with the camber plates I already bought.


M-Dynamic Mode (MDM) is something else to do without. I like the idea of being able to use it on the street, but I usually just leave DSC fully on. On the track, DSC off is the only way I roll. Verdict: while the M button is definitely handy, I wouldn't get the MDrive package just for MDM.


Regarding ZCP: I don't have any direct experience with it. From what I hear, it's probably still not firm enough to my liking. Unless you really like the wheels, I'd probably save the money and go aftermarket.


Exhaust: stock exhaust sounds better in person than in all the videos I'd seen. I was sure I wanted the performance exhaust, but I'm not going to bother. More money to spend on brakes, I guess.
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      07-12-2012, 11:52 AM   #59
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Since we have some experienced folks on this list....

I have had this car for about 2 outings now during DE (instructing, I do get to co-drive with other driver's in club races so this is STRICTLY a street car).

I have the EDC and intend to keep it. Besides brakes (thats another subject), my only other issue is that the car turns in great, but once settled, washes off mid corner (terrible understeer), and upon track out, I have no issues putting the power down or and the car is compliant. Partially because I scrub off speed mid corner and at times I literally have to lift for it to bite.

I have adjusted my driving so the tire wear is fine and the pins are out in the front for more camber. Would getting plates on stock EDC help with mid corner grip (I am asking because I dont have issues with outside wear) or is this a function of better suspension with stiffer springs?

I recall James Clay stating that the dynamic camber on these cars are decent and do not require camber plates.

Thoughts?

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      07-12-2012, 12:38 PM   #60
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I used EDC for a while but it quickly gets old. Its nice if you like to drive to the track and if you are a beginner. As people have indicated, you will want something more. E9X M3's are just too heavy for a soft setup. Far too much body roll on the track. I would definitely look into new suspension. Also, brakes will become an issue even with race pads. That would be my second recommendation. E9X M3's are a blast!
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      07-12-2012, 06:14 PM   #61
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Have you guys seen the TCKline EDC spring/camber plate kit?

What kind of truck are you talking about the M3 riding like? 1/2 ton or a dully? I don't think it's fair to say a certain suspension is for beginners. Don't you agree that an experienced driver should know how to drive all types of cars?
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      07-13-2012, 01:05 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
Have you guys seen the TCKline EDC spring/camber plate kit?
I'm planning to look into a spring & sleeve kit by GC. I already have GC camber plates, so hopefully they'll be compatible.

Quote:
What kind of truck are you talking about the M3 riding like?
I don't even know. It just feels flabby and docile. Like some kind of cruiser for old guys in which to drive up and down the strip, hitting on MILFs.

I want something a bit more taut and energetic, like my modded A4. I've never never felt as enthralled about my M3 as I did about my A4.

Quote:
Don't you agree that an experienced driver should know how to drive all types of cars?
I readily admit that the car has plenty of untapped potential. I just know that I would enjoy tracking & street driving it more if the suspension offered a better sense of control and connectedness.
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      07-13-2012, 09:19 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
the car turns in great, but once settled, washes off mid corner (terrible understeer)
I didn't see this. I'm on 275/35R18 square, so that should help. -2.5 front camber, also.

But another thing I'm thinking is that this is a natural consequence of EDC. I don't know too much about the tech, but I think it only varies the damper rate. That means that in sport mode, it gives you a high damper rate & low spring rate. I'm thinking the high damper rate is responsible for the initial turn in. The reason for the mid-corner instability is probably that the damper is further compressing throughout most of the turn. Since you're not running as much camber, this probably gives you a smaller lateral contact patch, which means hotter localized tire temps, which could cause the grip to drop off. I'm no expert. Just speculating.

Try running more camber and/or better controlling body roll.
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      07-16-2012, 11:54 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
I didn't see this. I'm on 275/35R18 square, so that should help. -2.5 front camber, also.

But another thing I'm thinking is that this is a natural consequence of EDC. I don't know too much about the tech, but I think it only varies the damper rate. That means that in sport mode, it gives you a high damper rate & low spring rate. I'm thinking the high damper rate is responsible for the initial turn in. The reason for the mid-corner instability is probably that the damper is further compressing throughout most of the turn. Since you're not running as much camber, this probably gives you a smaller lateral contact patch, which means hotter localized tire temps, which could cause the grip to drop off. I'm no expert. Just speculating.

Try running more camber and/or better controlling body roll.
Thanks Drifty. I think adding more camber should be the key here, I'll adapt my speeds so as to not fight the front tires but its still a patch. Will be looking out for dinan plates out there. I too am running 275 RA1s all around.

Regards,

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