|
|
06-20-2008, 04:19 AM | #45 | |
Major General
1109
Rep 8,014
Posts |
Quote:
Anything I comment on is usually based on experience and a bit of logic when I am guessing about something. I wish I could give you written evidence but I can't net the article I was looking for to back up my opinion so have had to resort to a Youtube video which you may have seen before but is a good example of where I am coming from. The track is Anglesey and you will know the two cars (CSL and M3) one with the best semi-pro rubber and the other with the then best of several years ago. The lap was 50 seconds for the CSL and 52 secs for the normal M3, now does this mean that the tyres accounted for half of the improvement? You may feel that answer is yes but before you jump to your keyboard lets look at the differences between the two cars. The CSL is over a second quicker to 100mph and is a lot lighter as well which greatly helps it's directional changes and it braking without even mentioning it's improved grip levels because of the less weight, next there is the suspension improvement which stiffen both the rebound and compression and I would also reckon you will find a better shock, stiffing bar between the struts and bigger anti-roll bars as well. The braking are better even though there is less weight to start with. All these other improvements but a total of 2 seconds where shaved off the time and you reckon one of those were the tyres on their own. Sorry mate I don't buy it, from experience the tyres comparisons between the best stock rubber and semi-race stuff doesn't yield such an improvement unless the rest of the kit is improved as well, like is the case with the CSL. P.S. Remember that even Michelin state that the old CSL rubber is better than the new verison but where they differ is that wet/cold ability, the new M3's rubber is a lot better than the old M3's tyres so the gap will be even less. On this occasion you and me are going to have a difference of opinion. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 06:14 AM | #46 | |
Colonel
755
Rep 2,736
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 06:21 AM | #47 |
Major General
1109
Rep 8,014
Posts |
devo,
Sorry about that and if you check I did try and get it back on track earlier. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=40 |
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 07:03 AM | #48 | |
Colonel
755
Rep 2,736
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 09:29 AM | #49 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
I enjoyed the footage, but have no idea what the tire difference is between those two cars. Did I miss something? Bruce |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 09:42 AM | #50 | |
Major General
1109
Rep 8,014
Posts |
Quote:
The problem with semi-race tyres is they are or at least use give unbelieveable grip right up to the end and then they let go with no warning, at least with a ultra high performance tyre is they will let go with warning just before it totally lets go, you know how far you can push them. Now on a track with large go off areas and gravel traps the semi-race are fine but on the road I prefer the that little bit of warning, call me a chicken if you like. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 08:39 PM | #51 | |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-20-2008, 10:32 PM | #52 | |
Banned
61
Rep 908
Posts
Drives: em-funf
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2000 E39 M5 - current [0.00]
2007 E92 335i - SOLD [0.00] 1996 E36 M3-SOLD [0.00] 2000 E39 M5-SOLD [0.00] 2001 E46 M3-SOLD [0.00] 1995 E36 M3-SOLD [0.00] |
Quote:
I don't know... I run winter wheels and tires for 4 months of the year and I've seen a lot of E36 m3 with all seasons, but, you are right that majority of people do put summer performance tires on M3s. I don't know for certain but the M3s that I have driven with only aftermarket swaybars tend to handle better than stock suspension cars with quality performance tires. Granted the swaybar car also had good tires, but absolute elimination of body roll was confidence inspiring. either way...put good tires on M3. it's a win win. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-21-2008, 01:46 AM | #53 | |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-21-2008, 02:14 AM | #54 |
Major General
597
Rep 5,448
Posts |
i would disagree. I have seen tests where a full suspension gains a few tenths of a seond on a one minute AX course, where R comp tires would net 4-5 seconds.
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-21-2008, 06:50 AM | #55 | |
Major General
1109
Rep 8,014
Posts |
Quote:
There is a lot more to the science of suspension design then you could possibly believe, one example is the S4 vs RS4, I have driven both and have sampled both with the same wheel/tyre combination. Now both have roughly the same weight balance percentage F to R, the same awd system and weigh within 20Kgs of each other but the RS4 can find grip in a corner that the S4 can only dream of, even taking the power difference I reckon there is a much better chance of the suspension differences making a much bigger improvement than the tyres on their own. Get the suspension setup right for the tyres and you can work the available grip far more efficiently. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-21-2008, 09:08 AM | #56 | ||
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
Oh. Our '04 M3 came with Pilot Sports. Quote:
Bruce PS - Sounds as if you know about the Cup+ tires. How would you relate them in regard to today's PSCs? |
||
Appreciate
0
|
06-21-2008, 11:00 AM | #57 | |
Major General
1109
Rep 8,014
Posts |
Quote:
The only thing I don't know is whether they are any better in cold temperatures because the last one carried a disclaimer. The new M3 comes with Cup+ on the 19" alloys, well the one I have seen at any rate and this is why I chose the 18" with their PS2 for a more forgiving roll off of grip and should be more forgiving towards the ride quality as well. Like I said many times I'm not a street racer and I'm no longer interested in the track, even a humble Formula Ford will wipe the floor with 95% of trackday stuff and it at the lowest form of single seater motorsport. The tyre that I would really like to try on the M3 is the Goodyear Eagle F1s, they seem to offer the best overall balance in both wet and dry conditions, in almost every test I have witnessed they come out on top with the best dry weather grip and more importantly the most consistent lap times proving that temperature build up is less pronounced than the others and grip remains constant. The only thing is that I don't think BMW and Goodyear partnered to make a version for the M3 so you are taking a stock tyre instead of one designed for the job. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-21-2008, 11:28 AM | #58 |
Banned
61
Rep 908
Posts
Drives: em-funf
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2000 E39 M5 - current [0.00]
2007 E92 335i - SOLD [0.00] 1996 E36 M3-SOLD [0.00] 2000 E39 M5-SOLD [0.00] 2001 E46 M3-SOLD [0.00] 1995 E36 M3-SOLD [0.00] |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-28-2008, 01:26 PM | #60 | |
Colonel
755
Rep 2,736
Posts |
Quote:
Just heard that the 997TT S will be out in the spring. 530hp, PCCBs standard, PDK is the only gearbox. The base TT will get 500 ponies. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-28-2008, 07:18 PM | #64 | |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Quote:
Are you they open to discounts on the 09 models as they are with the 08s?
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-28-2008, 08:43 PM | #65 |
Colonel
755
Rep 2,736
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-30-2008, 01:37 PM | #66 |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
The discount is good. The price for the 09 you posted is about 3% higher than the 08's. I thought Porsche didn't jack up prices too much in between model years on the same platform. That's considerable. I wonder if this means the 09 M3 will see a %3 increase as well. My ride's nice. Real nice.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|