Anyone with a 2012-2013 wish they waited for the M4?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I also waited until 2013 to order mine new

I still see myself buying M3s in the future because I'm emotionally attached to the brand, but I know I won't like them as much as the E9X generation.

As much as i like the S65B40 engine I am partial to bmw. i had the highest esteem for BMW when the E46 M3 was still in production it has gone down to neutral view and negative with the F gen. I like the E92 because of the depth of the driving experience it offers but yeah, i dislike the bmw brand. I don't have any attachment to american brands either. The only brand that ever got me emotionally attached was Japanese but that was long ago.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

As much as i like the S65B40 engine I am partial to bmw. i had the highest esteem for BMW when the E46 M3 was still in production it has gone down to neutral view and negative with the F gen. I like the E92 because of the depth of the driving experience it offers but yeah, i dislike the bmw brand. I don't have any attachment to american brands either. The only brand that ever got me emotionally attached was Japanese but that was long ago.

My attachment stems from my beloved 330Ci which drove like a charm and the older models.

The newer stuff is a disappointment, the problem is, who do you turn to? In my case I can't do Porsche, so what does that leave?

I can't get a Vette until they learn how to build cars. It is insane NA Z51s overheat in mountain roads, much less the track
Same story for GT350... the Viper is the only one I'd want for the track

It's a shame. Like another member says: 'back in the 2000s I wanted every single car BMW made...'

[jaehshim]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

As much as i like the S65B40 engine I am partial to bmw. i had the highest esteem for BMW when the E46 M3 was still in production it has gone down to neutral view and negative with the F gen. I like the E92 because of the depth of the driving experience it offers but yeah, i dislike the bmw brand. I don't have any attachment to american brands either. The only brand that ever got me emotionally attached was Japanese but that was long ago.

exactly how I feel now about the BMW brand...
it was my favorite brand, all started with a e36 blk 328i sedan, still think it's one of the greatest bmw....e34s, e39s, e46s, e90s....

the f30 and f10s I started thinking I'm not sure where BMW is going with this... you lift up an old e90 325i and a new f30 328i, from little as under panels to suspension components, you can 100% tell BMW is now going cheap/mass producing rather than building one complete fine machine.
and this week I'm seeing the new 5 series on the road, and with that tiny "M" badge on the side for the M pack cars....this brand has diluted to death and I have 0 interest in this brand...
Back in the days, BMW did give a fuk about engineering, putting high rev motor with individual throttle bodies in their M specific engines, not that it made the car go 10 sec faster on the Ring compared to other competitors, but because they loved the racing nature of the engine and driving response/dynamic of such technology.
Now, we're seeing inline 6 with Mitsubishi turbos into all of the lineup models from 1 series, all SAVs, 7 series to M2/3/4, fake sounds thru speakers, impressing customers with new drive screen and led taillights and CF lip spoilers....

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

exactly how I feel now about the BMW brand...
it was my favorite brand, all started with a e36 blk 328i sedan, still think it's one of the greatest bmw....e34s, e39s, e46s, e90s....

the f30 and f10s I started thinking I'm not sure where BMW is going with this... you lift up an old e90 325i and a new f30 328i, from little as under panels to suspension components, you can 100% tell BMW is now going cheap/mass producing rather than building one complete fine machine.
and this week I'm seeing the new 5 series on the road, and with that tiny "M" badge on the side for the M pack cars....this brand has diluted to death and I have 0 interest in this brand...
Back in the days, BMW did give a fuk about engineering, putting high rev motor with individual throttle bodies in their M specific engines, not that it made the car go 10 sec faster on the Ring compared to other competitors, but because they loved the racing nature of the engine and driving response/dynamic of such technology.
Now, we're seeing inline 6 with Mitsubishi turbos into all of the lineup models from 1 series, all SAVs, 7 series to M2/3/4, fake sounds thru speakers, impressing customers with new drive screen and led taillights and CF lip spoilers....

Completely agree. The smart enthusiasts notice these important letdown first but the masses are slowly catching up. I'm seeing BMW / Hyundai / Kia belonging to the same car segment before long with the Koreans steadily rise and bmw's failure to keep ahead in quality and unique designs. Our car segment wants quality and original daring new designs over cost cutting cheap 'new technologies' and bmw is not delivering anymore.
I knew about the M4 turbos, Mitsubishi 100% made in Japan. If I didn't own an E92 today to somewhat mellow down my judgement of bmw i would classify bmw as an automaker to avoid due to no longer justifiable price tags with massive cost cutting in quality of materials and no bespoke engines no more, all generic cheap mechanics with M tags 360 all over.

[SYT_Shadow]

The thing is all of us will need new cars eventually, so what do you plan to go to?

Mercedes is even more of a joke, using the same engine from a C class to the AMG GT.

The market is the one moving in the direction that annoys enthusiasts, but everyone is doing it. The same way modern BMWs have no steering feel and isolated driving dynamics, so do their competitors.

[jaehshim]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The thing is all of us will need new cars eventually, so what do you plan to go to?

Mercedes is even more of a joke, using the same engine from a C class to the AMG GT.

The market is the one moving in the direction that annoys enthusiasts, but everyone is doing it. The same way modern BMWs have no steering feel and isolated driving dynamics, so do their competitors.

I'm with you on that
with an unbeatable inflation rate in the economy, believe it or not, the car price has not gone up as much as other material goods.

dealing with new regulations (economical and environmental), developmental cost and production cost, manufacturers will continue to do what they do now.

There will be more models available to customers but they will be a lot more similar than before, just like what you mentioned with Mercedes, what we are seeing in BMW models, and what we see in the recent VAG with their MQB chassis shared in almost all model lineups, basically same base with different roof pretty much. It only makes these "old" E90 M3s with their dedicated engines even more valuable and special.

We will need new cars eventually, you are right. My daily in the next 10 yrs will probably be a turbo or hybrid, awd, 1speed electric motor or a 15speed triple clutch (lol), gets 60mpg, and a hybrid chassis that I'll have hard time calling it an SUV, SAV, Hatch or a wagon. But in my garage for the weekend, I'll rather have a NA s65 M3, a mint S2000, or a 997.2 GT3 6MT with a Mezger motor.

[pbonsalb]

I am torn between a 997.1TT 6MT or a 997.2TT PDK. The older engine is legendary, but expensive and I am not sure I want a 6 speed and the older PDK not as good. The newer motor and PDK seem to be fine to 600 rwhp, which is what I want, so I am leaning that way. Unfortunately, I cannot afford a $1500 per month car payment for another couple of years. It is good to dream, though. Maybe 991.1TT prices will be down to my level by the time I am ready.

I might supercharge my 08 E90M3 in the meantime. I finished paying for it a year ago. With a supercharger, it could be as fast as a 997TT, but does not have AWD and for my year round driving including winter, I would like AWD.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I am torn between a 997.1TT 6MT or a 997.2TT PDK. The older engine is legendary, but expensive and I am not sure I want a 6 speed and the older PDK not as good. The newer motor and PDK seem to be fine to 600 rwhp, which is what I want, so I am leaning that way. Unfortunately, I cannot afford a $1500 per month car payment for another couple of years. It is good to dream, though. Maybe 991.1TT prices will be down to my level by the time I am ready.

I might supercharge my 08 E90M3 in the meantime. I finished paying for it a year ago. With a supercharger, it could be as fast as a 997TT, but does not have AWD and for my year round driving including winter, I would like AWD.

Supercharging the E90 is great, but you lose the wonderful intake noise. I've been in several ESS E9Xs with the 650 kit and although the thrust is incredible and feels OEM, the lack of intake noise is a serious problem

The P TT is a similar problem to a M4. I don't want turbos muddling the response and ruining the exhaust noise. I run with a lot of them in track days and have zero interest.

And, that's an older car so it doesn't answer the question of what you will buy in the future. Eventually we will all need new cars, so what brand will you buy?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

I'm with you on that
with an unbeatable inflation rate in the economy, believe it or not, the car price has not gone up as much as other material goods.

dealing with new regulations (economical and environmental), developmental cost and production cost, manufacturers will continue to do what they do now.

There will be more models available to customers but they will be a lot more similar than before, just like what you mentioned with Mercedes, what we are seeing in BMW models, and what we see in the recent VAG with their MQB chassis shared in almost all model lineups, basically same base with different roof pretty much. It only makes these "old" E90 M3s with their dedicated engines even more valuable and special.

We will need new cars eventually, you are right. My daily in the next 10 yrs will probably be a turbo or hybrid, awd, 1speed electric motor or a 15speed triple clutch (lol), gets 60mpg, and a hybrid chassis that I'll have hard time calling it an SUV, SAV, Hatch or a wagon. But in my garage for the weekend, I'll rather have a NA s65 M3, a mint S2000, or a 997.2 GT3 6MT with a Mezger motor.

To be fair, VAG has been doing this since the stone age which is why I'll never buy a car from them.
People in the US make fun of GMC/Caddy/Chevy but in Europe VAG shares the same chassis and identical engine/tranny combos between Audi, Volkswaken, Seat and Skoda. The two last ones don't exist over here, but they are lower cost versions.
There are multiple instances where the same car wearing an Audi badge is, say, 29k. Then the Skoda clone is literally 19k. That's a big difference for nicer styling, etc.

I bought a mint 2011 E90 last year to go with my 2013 E92. These cars are really, really special, but eventually it is inevitable that I will have to buy a new car

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Supercharging the E90 is great, but you lose the wonderful intake noise. I've been in several ESS E9Xs with the 650 kit and although the thrust is incredible and feels OEM, the lack of intake noise is a serious problem

The P TT is a similar problem to a M4. I don't want turbos muddling the response and ruining the exhaust noise. I run with a lot of them in track days and have zero interest.

And, that's an older car so it doesn't answer the question of what you will buy in the future. Eventually we will all need new cars, so what brand will you buy?

I am not stuck on any one brand, but would probably start my search with BMW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. I find better value in used cars, so whatever I buy will be used and older -- just probably younger than my 08E90M3.

The 997.2TT started in 2010, so it would be newer, and if I could afford an even newer 991.1TT or 991.2TT then I would look at them as well. I would also look at the twin turbo BMW V8 M5 and M6 and twin turbo I6 M3, but think I want AWD. Maybe I would check out used Audis with the twin turbo 4.0L V8 like an RS6 (if available in the US) or RS7, but out of warranty Audis can be expensive to maintain -- I save money by doing my own work but am not looking for trouble. An E63 AMG bi turbo AWD could be worth a look as well.

I would look domestically, but currently there is not really anything I like. The Mustang GT350R is a nice car. The new Camaro is a nice car. I am just not sure I want a Mustang or Camaro. I think the new Corvettes look great, but its not a practical daily driver for me and its not really my style. They are also not AWD. Maybe down the road there will be domestic options for me.

If you don't want a turbo or supercharger, your big power options are going away fast. There are moderate power domestic V8s that are only moderate power (the big power ones are supercharged) like the Mustang and Camaro and Corvette and the Mustang GT350R. Or you can buy an exotic car like an Audi R8 or Ferrari or Lamborghini or Porsche GT3/4.

[InspireSiR]

Waited until the very last moment to order my 2013. I was actually running into dealers who didn't have anymore allocation. I got lucky and found a dealer close to me who had someone else back out of theirs. I was still able to configure it to my liking:

Alpine White, Cloth Interior, Carbon Leather Dash, Comfort Access.

That. Is. It.

My build date was June 2013 as evidenced by the stamping on the driver side door sill.

Since it's the last of it's kind, the only thing I hate about the car is worrying I'll get t-boned at an intersection or rear ended by someone texting.

If you can swing it financially, I would make this a weekend/sunny weather/garaged only car and find something else for a daily.

As for a new car, I think the generation AFTER F8X will be the one to get. I have a feeling after that, we're going to have some sort of hybrid/automatic only M3.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by InspireSiR

As for a new car, I think the generation AFTER F8X will be the one to get. I have a feeling after that, we're going to have some sort of hybrid/automatic only M3.

Definitely. The B58 seems much better than the N55. The S58 should be an interesting engine!

The M following that will have some kind of hybrid or battery assist

[Lt1camaro]

Anyone driven the ZCP M4? After having seen that motor trend review, it kinda looks tempting as my future E92 replacement

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Lt1camaro

Anyone driven the ZCP M4? After having seen that motor trend review, it kinda looks tempting as my future E92 replacement

The one I drove on track was the zcp.

It's better than the stock one for sure. If I hadn't been able to buy another E9X I would have one

[R3dliner]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The one I drove on track was the zcp.

It's better than the stock one for sure. If I hadn't been able to buy another E9X I would have one

friend just bought the jahre edition but those star ZCP wheels looks atrocious imo. Def drives better than the non ZCP ones though

[Beemdog]

The star wheels are reminiscent of 70's Pontiac aluminum wheels.

[Denk]

Fortunately the ZCP package has the 437's optioned now. Yeah, that new mesh design is gross...a little concave to them would help.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by InspireSiR

Waited until the very last moment to order my 2013. I was actually running into dealers who didn't have anymore allocation. I got lucky and found a dealer close to me who had someone else back out of theirs. I was still able to configure it to my liking:

Alpine White, Cloth Interior, Carbon Leather Dash, Comfort Access.

That. Is. It.

My build date was June 2013 as evidenced by the stamping on the driver side door sill.

Since it's the last of it's kind, the only thing I hate about the car is worrying I'll get t-boned at an intersection or rear ended by someone texting.

If you can swing it financially, I would make this a weekend/sunny weather/garaged only car and find something else for a daily.

As for a new car, I think the generation AFTER F8X will be the one to get. I have a feeling after that, we're going to have some sort of hybrid/automatic only M3.

Mine is a 2013' E92 June built too with ZCP. I know my car production rank starting from last one produced, curious to see if yours is one those ahead of mine. you can PM me as i have the list.

[bakaneul]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

I'm with you on that
with an unbeatable inflation rate in the economy, believe it or not, the car price has not gone up as much as other material goods.

dealing with new regulations (economical and environmental), developmental cost and production cost, manufacturers will continue to do what they do now.

There will be more models available to customers but they will be a lot more similar than before, just like what you mentioned with Mercedes, what we are seeing in BMW models, and what we see in the recent VAG with their MQB chassis shared in almost all model lineups, basically same base with different roof pretty much. It only makes these "old" E90 M3s with their dedicated engines even more valuable and special.

We will need new cars eventually, you are right. My daily in the next 10 yrs will probably be a turbo or hybrid, awd, 1speed electric motor or a 15speed triple clutch (lol), gets 60mpg, and a hybrid chassis that I'll have hard time calling it an SUV, SAV, Hatch or a wagon. But in my garage for the weekend, I'll rather have a NA s65 M3, a mint S2000, or a 997.2 GT3 6MT with a Mezger motor.

I feel the same and I am doing it now haha

[InspireSiR]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Mine is a 2013' E92 June built too with ZCP. I know my car production rank starting from last one produced, curious to see if yours is one those ahead of mine. you can PM me as i have the list.

PM sent

[Bucki14]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The thing is all of us will need new cars eventually, so what do you plan to go to?

Mercedes is even more of a joke, using the same engine from a C class to the AMG GT.

The market is the one moving in the direction that annoys enthusiasts, but everyone is doing it. The same way modern BMWs have no steering feel and isolated driving dynamics, so do their competitors.

I'll probably end up in some Honda/Toyota for my daily commute needs. But my next car to add to my m3 stable will definitely be either a Lotus Exige S, F430, or 991.1 GT3. Obviously similarities in the cars here in relation to the M

[450pirate]

If mpg weren't an issue, I wish BMW could build a best of both worlds turbo motor for the M cars; a high revving motor with less tq and more hp. Kind of like a turbo e46 or s/c e9x. Then everyone would be happy lol