SC without an intercooler

[Stelios619]

I purchased a 2011 E92 that came with a stage 1 Gintani supercharger Kit. I gave Gintani a call to get a few details on the system, and realized that it’s their non-intercooled kit that they produced to stay cost effective.

I’m told that it pushed about 460HP on the dyno.

What are my limitations with this setup without having an intercooler? Is it pretty much a no-go for track days?

In all reality I’m building a weekend warrior to take on to the Utah mountains to go play around. Though, I do live just a few minutes from (formerly) Miller Motorsports Park, so I’d like to take it from the track from time to time. Is heat soak really going to be a factor?

Am I limited to the 460HP, or can I throw on a smaller pulley for some more boost down the road? I’d like to get into the 625-650 crank HP one of these days, and I’m unsure if thats going to be possible with what I currently have.

I’ll fully admit that I’m a motorcycle guy. I sold my Aprilia RSV4 RF to make this purchase, so I’m a little clueless to how forced induction works on these motors.

[Ervin87]

Yes, heat soak is an issue at the track, especially on a supercharged m3 without an intercooler.

Most of these stage 1 kits are limited to maximum power without proper cooling.

[roastbeef]

You're going to be better off adding an intercooler rather than adding boost.

Diesel vid, same principle applies.

[Stelios619]

That’s mind of what I figured. I’ll have to upgrade to an intercooler system.

Until then, has anyone had a problem with heat soaking/power loss during spirited canyon runs (where you aren’t beating the crap out of it quite like on a track)?

[roastbeef]

You'll be able to beat on it a little bit without going into limp mode unless you're doing something seriously stupid.

[pbonsalb]

I’d look into water/meth injection. And reduce your power goals. Unfortunately, it’s not cheap to upgrade what you have. You need a charge cooler manifold, pump, tune, larger injectors, etc.

[Mpow-wow]

You could piece together an inter cooler yourself. Air/water or air to air.

Looking at that setup and air/water intercooler would be pretty easy.

[Properstyle]

add water meth system to your setup and you will find it to be more effective then having the intercooled system.

In the summer months the intercooled system have harder time dropping temp do to the circulation of water in to a hot core sitting over the motor. Setting up a proper meth kit will allow the charge temp to be drastically cooled under WOT allowing the car to meet its timing tarets and allow you to run more boost. Hitting 530whp roughly 600CRANK hP is more than doable on a 7 PSI pulley on that setup.

[Stelios619]

Ok, so you guys have me interested here....

If I’m reading this correctly, it’s being suggested that as long as I get myself a decent water/meth system, I should be able to hit 600 crank without any issues (I’m perfectly fine with that HP figure).

Or, I could maybe cobble up an air/water inter cooling system? Would someone have any links or pictures of what I’d potentially need?

As i mentioned, forced induction is entirely new to me. I’m sorry if I’m asking fairly basic questions here.

[pbonsalb]

These ideas probably are not for you if you don’t know what you are doing. Better to buy a complete kit.

[Lienrocs]

Running a water/meth injection on a non inter cooled set up is a bad idea, in my opinion. If the meth stops flowing for whatever reason you're gonna go from good inlet temps and stable afrs to crazy high inlet temps and a really lean situation really quickly. I'm not sure I'd want to rely on the ecu fail safes to catch that quick of a swing if it happens during some spirited driving or track driving.

[Stelios619]

I just emailed Gintani to see what it’ll take to convert my Stage 1 to a Stage 2 intercooled kit (they claim 650 crank). Hopefully I don’t get murdered on this.

If I end up having to buy an entire Stage 2 kit, what does the market look like for these Stage 1 systems? I see them new for about $6,900. Whats a fair asking price on a used system?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Stelios619

I just emailed Gintani to see what it'll take to convert my Stage 1 to a Stage 2 intercooled kit (they claim 650 crank). Hopefully I don't get murdered on this.

If I end up having to buy an entire Stage 2 kit, what does the market look like for these Stage 1 systems? I see them new for about $6,900. Whats a fair asking price on a used system?

A person buying it still needs to buy a tune from Gintani which may end up close to $1k inclusing tax. So my guess is you ask $3k and eventually someone will buy it for $2,500.

[pbonsalb]

I agree used stuff should cost about half new. Since you can’t sell the tune that is in your ECU, the buyer has to buy a new one, which as Longboarder explained adds about $1000 to the purchase price.

[LastMCar]

Fashion your own air to air. It won’t be that hard, lots of online retailers for that stuff.

[LastMCar]

Fashion your own air to air. It won’t be that hard, lots of online retailers for that stuff.

[pbonsalb]

As far as I know, there is not a single post in this forum of someone making their own DIY air to air IC. As far as I know, there is no Vortech kit for these cars that uses an air to air IC. The OP said he is clueless as to forced induction on these cars. Your “it won’t be that hard” might not turn out to be true for him.

I think it would be fun to see someone do it. I really like Evolve’s air to air system. Reminds me what Dinan did on it’s rare intercooled E46M3 supercharger kits.

[Stelios619]

I’ve been working on cars and motorcycles my entire life, but always naturally aspirated. Forced induction is entirely new to me.

At this point I think my best bet is to convert my Stage 1 into a Stage 2 (or 2.5), and see what’s going to be involved (as far as I can tell, it’s just a new manifold, and maybe a new blowoff valve and tuning). Then sell off the old manifold to someone who wants to piece their own kit together for minimal cost.

[pbonsalb]

That would be a lot easier.

[amrazM]

You should consider adding an inter chiller