Rogue Engineering 14mm Wheel Stud Jig

[inTgr8r]

Has anyone done the conversion to 14mm wheel studs??

R.Eng. has a jig for drilling the hubs and re-tapping to accept 14mm Studs.

http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogu...Jig_p_265.html

It is no secret that the M12 studs used in E36, E46 and E9X BMWs are too small for serious track and competitive driving. Even if made from the best materials available, the M12 will be wind up breaking at the most inopportune times. While companies such as Porsche, VW and Audi have been using M14 size bolts and studs for many years, BMW finally switched to M14 studs with their F-Series vehicles. Rogue Engineering has developed a jig to accurately drill and tap your existing 5x120 hubs to accept M14 studs! Simply changing from the M12 to M14 size is already a 30% increase in strength!

The Process

While very simple in appearance, the jig is CNC'd from 6061-T6 aluminum with very specific holes for the conversion process. While some holes are designed for drilling, other holes are designed for holding and others for tapping. The conversion process should take approximately 30 minutes per corner when following the included directions. After all of the holes have been drilled and tapped for the new M14 size, all of the rotors need to be removed so that the bolt holes can be opened up to 5/8".
Fortunately, most wheels do not require any modification and they will fit without issue.

The Conversion Kit

Included in the kit are the following parts:

• Rogue Engineering Wheel Stud Conversion Jig
• Bolting hardware
• Required drill for the hub (drill for the rotor not supplied)
• Required tap for the hub

I've lost track of the number of broken studs I've seen at the track.
Some of them may be a maintenance issue (too old)
But, I know of several that were well within the usage window, and should not have failed.

I need new studs now anyway, seems like a good upgrade while I'm at it.
It would be interesting to hear if anyone has used this jig kit.

[roastbeef]

i think a lot of people screw with their studs too often... i see tons of people clicking away with a torque wrench after every session after they come in and the hardware is the hottest. torque them at the beginning of the day and be done with it. once they heat up, they expand, people torque them, then they cool down, and they can't contract correctly.
studs are said to have a two year service life, and sometimes people aren't proactive.
has anyone ever had a nut fly off a stud because it became loose after a few sessions?

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i think a lot of people screw with their studs too often... i see tons of people clicking away with a torque wrench after every session after they come in and the hardware is the hottest. torque them at the beginning of the day and be done with it. once they heat up, they expand, people torque them, then they cool down, and they can't contract correctly.
studs are said to have a two year service life, and sometimes people aren't proactive.
has anyone ever had a nut fly off a stud because it became loose after a few sessions?

This. Knock on wood, in 7 years of tracking I have never had a broken stud. I torque the wheels once when I change tires and rarely go back and re-torque and certainly never when wheels are hot. And I change wheels 2-3 times a weekend. I replace studs about every 2 years as a preventive measure.

[inTgr8r]

Yeah, I see that a lot too.
I torque at the start of day , cold, and that's it.

[pbonsalb]

I think the 14mm conversion is a great idea but I just bought new 12mm studs so I’ll think about it in a few years.

[dogbone]

It's very cool to find out that something like this is available now.

Bummer that I just replaced my 12mm studs on Sunday......

Maybe next year!

[inTgr8r]

Looks like I may be the Guinea pig on this....

It will be a month or two before I get to it, but I'll post my results when I do.

[dogbone]

I called Rogue Engineering today and asked them about this tool. They said they decided to create it after several race teams that they work with had been running the 14mm mod successfully for several seasons.

I had looked into this a couple years ago when I was breaking studs on a regular basis. Jordan Yost did this mod on his own to his E92 M3 race car successfully, so I had been chatting with him about it. (They did the mod without a handy tool set like this.)

For sure, the front hub looks fine for expanding the holes. The hub flange has plenty of room on the outside edge of the holes. But the rear hub flange is a smaller diameter. If you expand the rear holes, they're gonna get pretty close to the edge of the hub flange. Jordan and the Rogue Engineering guys all say it's ok. So I guess I believe them, but it is a bit scary to look at on the rears.

Honestly, the topic has moved to the back burner for me since I moved to the Bimmerworld Premium Race Bullet Nose Stud at $10 a piece. ( http://www.bimmerworld.com/Wheels-Ti...BoC3cgQAvD_BwE ). With regular track use, I have not broken anymore studs since I began using them. And I usually change wheels 3 or 4 times per track day (either rotating or changing wheel sets), so I'm not gentle on them. The steel is a harder 12.9 steel (vs most studs using 10.9 steel) and they have a unique shoulder on them that sits flat on the hub flange helping to distribute the stress. It's been working fine for me.

Perhaps next year, I'll try moving up to 14mm on just the fronts since all but one of my broken studs were on the front. (And then I'll sit there and wonder if I have the balls to do the mod on the rear hubs....)

Good luck! I'll be very curious to hear how it goes! The Rogue Engineering guy said the instructions are pretty detailed because there's a very specific set of steps and an order that it has to be done. Also, you have to drill out the rotor hats to accommodate the larger diameter stud, and I guess we're on our own for that part......yikes! hahahaha

[inTgr8r]

Thanks...
I'll check out the rear hubs, before I head down this road.

[pbonsalb]

The Bimmerworld studs look nice. Others have gone to a bigger flange at the base as well. I like the fact that they are made in the US though Germany would be fine also. The great thing about Bimmerworld for a part like this is that they race what they sell so it’s a tested product. Obviously that does not apply to all their parts.

[inTgr8r]

Yeah, I like the specs of the BW ones as well.
I've been using Turner's so far, and have not had any failures, but these look even better.

I have seen failures on the 'others' with similar shanks.

[roastbeef]

looks like they have aluminum lug nuts... thats kinda cool.

another thing i'm thinking about with larger studs is; does that mean the nuts are larger? then you might have to locate a thin-walled socket to fit certain wheels.

[inTgr8r]

^good point.

[dogbone]

You still use a 17mm lug nut. You still use your same wheels. The lug nut still seats the same way in your wheels. Nothing changes there. The inside of the lug nut is just 14mm to accommodate the larger diameter stud.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by dogbone

........ Also, you have to drill out the rotor hats to accommodate the larger diameter stud, and I guess we're on our own for that part......yikes! hahahaha

I checked my Essex kit that's sitting here waiting to be installed.
The holes are 14.25mm, so they should be OK.
Of course this will vary depending on which hats people have.

[msan]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Honestly, the topic has moved to the back burner for me since I moved to the Bimmerworld Premium Race Bullet Nose Stud at $10 a piece. ( http://www.bimmerworld.com/Wheels-Ti...BoC3cgQAvD_BwE ). With regular track use, I have not broken anymore studs since I began using them. And I usually change wheels 3 or 4 times per track day (either rotating or changing wheel sets), so I'm not gentle on them. The steel is a harder 12.9 steel (vs most studs using 10.9 steel) and they have a unique shoulder on them that sits flat on the hub flange helping to distribute the stress. It's been working fine for me.

Sorry to thread jack but could you give us a quick rundown of what you did to install the studs? Torque spec and Red Loctite, etc.?

Thanks!

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by msan

Sorry to thread jack but could you give us a quick rundown of what you did to install the studs? Torque spec and Red Loctite, etc.?

Thanks!

That topic has been discussed many times.
Plus when you buy them you will get instructions specific to the product.

e.g. from Turner https://1c2a8a2161d644d95009-22d26b3...structions.pdf

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I checked my Essex kit that's sitting here waiting to be installed.
The holes are 14.25mm, so they should be OK.
Of course this will vary depending on which hats people have.

ahem....excuse me......"waiting to be installed"???!!!!! THROW THOSE THINGS ON!!!!!

hehe I couldn't stand myself. I got my 9668 kit and they were on the car the next day.

Interesting to hear that the diameter is 14.25mm. Maybe nothing needs to be done. That would be very nice!

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by dogbone

ahem....excuse me......"waiting to be installed"???!!!!! THROW THOSE THINGS ON!!!!!

hehe I couldn't stand myself. I got my 9668 kit and they were on the car the next day.

Interesting to hear that the diameter is 14.25mm. Maybe nothing needs to be done. That would be very nice!

LOL.... on winter shutdown here.
The Z4MC is currently occupying the heated bay and in the process of demodding.

In the mean time the pile of M3 parts waiting for installation is growing.....

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by msan

Sorry to thread jack but could you give us a quick rundown of what you did to install the studs? Torque spec and Red Loctite, etc.?

Thanks!

Over time, I adapted my own way of doing it that evolved from seeing many instructions and talking to several shops. (I bought studs from many sources to compare them. I liked the design of the Bimmerworld ones with a nice big collar and flat shoulder to rest against the hub the best. It seemed the best idea for resisting stresses. Most other studs just rely on jamming into the hub threads, and don't have any collars. That seems like a terrible way to do it. My studs were all breaking inside the hub. I needed something to strengthen the area outside it so there wasn't as much stress in the hub. The Apex studs have a similar flat shoulder, but the Bimmerworld stud uses stronger steel.)

The Bimmerworld stud:



My method:

-Remove the old studs. I use this tool which can take all 20 studs out in less than 10 minutes with an impact gun. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00265M8N4/

-I put a decent amount of effort into cleaning the threads once the old studs are removed. I run a thread chaser (oiled up with WD40) through there, then degrease with Brake Kleener, and even swab a Q-tip with alcohol into each hole to make sure it's clean and dry..

-I use one drop of Blue Loctite. Red Loctite makes it EXTREMELY difficult to get the stud out of the hub if it breaks off inside the hub. The Bimmerworld stud comes with a pink, dry-crusted thread-locker. No one at Bimmerworld could tell me how it compares to Loctite in terms of strength, so I scrape all that stuff off and just use my trusted Blue Loctite.

-I torque the studs onto the hub at 40 ft lbs. (Torquing a stud to 40 ft lbs is challenging. My impact gun is not powerful enough to jam the nuts together hard enough to allow me to torque the studs to 40 ft lbs. And trying to double-nut that much ft lbs manually is very hard when the stud is in the hub. I came up with my own way of double-nutting the studs before I put the studs in the hub.)

-I torque my lug nuts onto the wheel at 80 ft lbs.

With this humble method, I don't break studs anymore.

[inTgr8r]

One of the things I really like on the BW studs is the undercut at the base of the collar preventing thread bind.
I think this is a BIG reason for minimizing stress risers.

[ferrarif1]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

One of the things I really like on the BW studs is the undercut at the base of the collar preventing thread bind.
I think this is a BIG reason for minimizing stress risers.

inTgr8r great to see you again, I remember talking back in our Z4MR days...

Did anyone end up doing the 14mm conversion with this kit? I am building an E46 track car and am interested in hearing from someone who did the conversion (on an e46 or e90) before jumping in.

Thanks!