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      05-19-2018, 12:11 AM   #67
Dave07997S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
All they have done is matched the basic wheel/tire setup of the 1LE withouot doing much to address the Camaro's superior overall chassis other than throw a stickier tire at it. I think it'll still be significantly slower than an SS 1LE on the same tires, but the 1LE doesn't get a DOT-R.

But still, 10.5's and 11's with 305's all around, with mandatory manual just like the Chevy, is pretty rad. Merica. It's still a lot of performance car for $46k (base GT with recaros and PP2), and the SS1LE is right on top of it MSRP-wise.

The springs and sways are different than the PP1.

From Autoblog..

The Level 2 received significant structural bracing — or as Widmann describes it, "Lots of changes in steel." Those changes include extra bracing in the strut towers and the front subframe, as well as thicker sway bars front and rear. The springs are stiffened, too. The promised net result is a more confident flow through corners with less lean

I drove a PP1 level car and still thought they were way under damped. The new PP2 cars with Magnaride really are a different level.
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Last edited by Dave07997S; 05-19-2018 at 12:17 AM.
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      05-21-2018, 10:40 AM   #68
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I'm just saying the camaro's chassis is still just plain better. Packs more wheelbase into the same overall size package, 1" smaller width and height, 100lb lighter, and maybe most critically the PP2 is still plodding along with a Torsen when the Camaro gets a torque-vectoring active diff

Cup2's to Goodyear Supercars I bet they run about the same lap time, but the mags will tell me if my armchair racing is accurate or not soon enough I'm sure
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      07-07-2018, 10:15 PM   #69
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Mustang if its a GT350. Otherwise its just a Mustang.

I will be picking up a GT350 once the 17s are in the 45k or less range.
So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.
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      07-08-2018, 01:02 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.
You sound like a guy who is about to buy a mustang? HA!

Thats a LONG drive, nice!.. good job man thats one way to get to know a car before you buy or not.
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      07-08-2018, 02:51 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.
I tried to get a test drive of a GT, but the dealer straight up refused to give me a test drive of a base GT because I wouldn't be interested in buying that specific car. It was listed at $35k... I did at least sit in a premium package car. It was at this point I lost interest in it. The back seat was completely uninhabitable (like BRZ levels of room) and the interior felt way too cheap to me. I understand you make some sacrifices for the price, but still.

The car I'm eyeing right now is a Giulia QV. I've at least sat in it, and quite liked the interior and thought it was just about the right size in every department. Still need to drive one, but I can't imagine it being more dull to drive than the F80 I tested. Am going to wait a year or two on the car, to see how they hold up, to see if the dealer network expands a bit more and if there's a chance Alfa may leave again. Plus, year old cars are sitting near $60k with not much mileage. But boy, hop over to the F80 forums and you'd swear it was worse than a Yugo.
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      07-08-2018, 09:46 PM   #72
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You sound like a guy who is about to buy a mustang? HA!

Thats a LONG drive, nice!.. good job man thats one way to get to know a car before you buy or not.
I still feel for me to want one it would have to be a GT350.

This post was more just an appreciation for the Coyote motor. It has come a long way.
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      07-09-2018, 12:39 AM   #73
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I still feel for me to want one it would have to be a GT350.

This post was more just an appreciation for the Coyote motor. It has come a long way.
Yeah it is a rpm happy motor, not alot of torque down low though, (kinda like the m3) ... i seem to remember it starting to pull around 3500 - 4000 rpm ish in the 6 mt gt pp1 i drove.

Honestly that is why i ditched my m3.

I dont do track days so for a street car / weekend cruiser... down low torque or good torque numbers are where its at for me. I just dont like to ring a motor out to feel it put me back in the seat and i dont care much for most turbo cars that ive experienced .

I ended up with a 2018 C7 and honestly dont miss my m3 but thats just me .

Whatever you end up getting iam sure it will be bad @ss ... so many great cars to choose from these days.
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      07-09-2018, 08:11 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
Yeah it is a rpm happy motor, not alot of torque down low though, (kinda like the m3) ... i seem to remember it starting to pull around 3500 - 4000 rpm ish in the 6 mt gt pp1 i drove.

Honestly that is why i ditched my m3.

I dont do track days so for a street car / weekend cruiser... down low torque or good torque numbers are where its at for me. I just dont like to ring a motor out to feel it put me back in the seat and i dont care much for most turbo cars that ive experienced .

I ended up with a 2018 C7 and honestly dont miss my m3 but thats just me .

Whatever you end up getting iam sure it will be bad @ss ... so many great cars to choose from these days.
I wish I fit in a Vette. Sigh

I think the GT500 coming out will probably be an amazing street car.
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      07-09-2018, 11:56 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.
gross.
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      07-09-2018, 12:13 PM   #76
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I wish I fit in a Vette. Sigh

I think the GT500 coming out will probably be an amazing street car.
Your 6'7 i saw you say back a page or two....yeah that might be a tight fit in a vette, bummer. I am sure the gt500 will be a absolute crusher! can't wait to see em.

I am actually thinking of adding a blower to my stingray, they are not that expensive and will give you around 600+ hp to the wheels.
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      07-09-2018, 02:16 PM   #77
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gross.
Truth hurts!
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      07-10-2018, 12:10 AM   #78
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Truth hurts!
And so does the Mustang's interior.
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      07-10-2018, 03:32 PM   #79
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Actually I find the S550 Mustangs interior to be visually appealing. The lack of quality of the materials is what gets me. Is it a step above what the S197 offered, hell yes.

I actually don't like the way the Coyote Mustang sounds. Yes they are louder and more aggressive than a OEM E9X M3 but the tonal quality IMHO is awful, even with an aftermarket exhaust. Of course this is a matter of opinion. Also, I found the S65 more rev happy and throttle response is better.

The Mustang is such a big car, the M3 feels svelte compared to the Mustang.

Also, it seems the 2018s have some teething issues. Quite a few motors have already let go and the MT82 tranny shift forks seemed to be made of chocolate as they snap with ease.

DKM if you do get a Mustang..wait until 2019 and hope Ford has some engineering fixes for this car. A buddy of mine traded in his 08 E92 M3 for one, Ford is now buying this car back as the engine blew along with the broken tranny shift fork. Its here in Cali and the car has been in the shop now for over 60 days. His car only had 6k miles on her.

I voted to keep my 2013 M3, the performance is quite similar and I have so much equity in my 2013 E92 and enjoy driving it every time I get in it.

I have to say though if I was forced to get a new car the new 2019 and up Mustang GT PP2 would be at the top of the list.

One other thing regarding the GT500, those babies are going to be $75k MSRP and dealers with the ADMs will get well over $100k for them.

Dave
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      07-10-2018, 04:53 PM   #80
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I can't stress enough how much "connection" with the car matters over the car's ultimate performance. People don't hang on to those 1000-hp GT-Rs for long.

I believe that if you can get past the interior of the GT350, it has the potential for a strong driver connection. I don't know that the PP2, even with its big performance, creates the same. Ultimately that is what I believe the downfall of the Camaro 1LE is. I think it is all capability and no connection. The old Z28 with the LS7 had a lot of potential, but the carbon ceramic brakes worry me as a track consumable.

The E90 is my only M3 for me because of the connection I have with it on the track. I've driven the F80 and it might as well be an Audi RS5. I have zero connection. I don't think the GT500 will be any more connected than a PP2 or an F80 M4.

The Porsche 911 (particularly GT3) is an experience that most other companies are not interested in spending the money to create.
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