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03-23-2007, 07:48 AM | #23 |
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But surely you are limited to six forward gears and one reverse? The gear lever should sit in the middle of the gate, pull towards and up or down for first and second, push away up and down for fifth and sixth. How would it be possible to make it an intuitive change into 7th? How would you change into 7th?
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03-23-2007, 08:29 AM | #24 |
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First post here, and I thought i'd make it a good'n with a link to a couple of sound clips of the new V8 .... enjoy!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/de...?storyId=16061 She's a little screamer!! To add my 2 pence worth to the discussions around disappointment with the engine outputs, I think people have to realise that this new engine was never going to be released at the maximum of it's possible spec, due to the fact that it has to last for around 7 years, or possibly 15 if the I6 was anything to go by, and therefore BMW will have planned model year changes, possible increases in displacement and of course the much rumoured CSL. If the engine was at the top spec from the beginning the costs to make noticeable improvements would be infeasible. I would imagine that with sligthly improved breathing and a less restrictive 100 cell cats, the engine would produce another 5-10% more power, and that is likely what the CSL will get. No doubt in future years the engine will be increased to 4.2 and then maybe 4.5 litres. Personally I would be more interested in them sticking with this engine size and output and focus their efforts on getting the weight of the car down to 1350kilos (or less) but it's much easier (and less costly) to give the car more power than it is to give it less weight. The M3 is going to face more competition than ever in the next few years, and as it has always been, the dynamics are what will define it as the measure of its competitors, not outright straight line speed. I also don't see BMW being able to get below 4.5secs to 60 whilst sticking with a 50:50 weight distribution. If you look at the 911GT3, it has similar power and torque, but weighs approx. 1395kgs, and that does 0-60 in 4.2secs, with a weight distribution of 63:37(?) .... just my opinion, but maybe i'm wrong. Good site by the way. Lots of good info! :rocks: |
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03-23-2007, 08:30 AM | #25 | |
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If are talking about the actually shift pattern of BMW's 7 speed used with the SMG setup in the M5/M6, then yes I am aware that those transmission would have a strange pattern if shifted manually. Something like this if I recall (though I am going purely from memory): 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 R But there's no reason that they could not build a 7 speed transmission with a normal shift pattern if they wanted it to be shifted manually. |
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03-23-2007, 09:09 AM | #26 |
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7 Speed Manual
Personally, I would wait for the SMG / ZSG and I hope they don't do a 6MT, it would not suit this engine IMHO.
2 4 6 R 1 3 5 7
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03-23-2007, 10:16 AM | #27 | |
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How could you do it with a seven speed manual box? Assuming it's 1 3 5 7 2 4 6 How would you be able to select 1st, 3rd, 5th or 7th easily and quickly based on feel alone? |
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03-23-2007, 10:42 AM | #28 |
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I don't know but I'll bet BMW could figure it out. Keep in mind, this same kind of issue would have come up when the first 5 and 6 speeds were developed as well. I just don't see it as a major engineering hurdle. I'll bet we do see a seven speed manual transmission on a high perfomance car at some point in the future.
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03-23-2007, 10:50 AM | #29 |
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Did anyone check out the odfficial specs yet from BMW on worldcarfans also Kudos again to Alpine325ci for his incredible job on the sedan M3. Here's the link for the engine specs & pics.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...gine-in-detail sorry you'll have to copy & paste it |
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03-23-2007, 12:01 PM | #30 |
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I'm not too worried about the torque, as long as they put a 7 speed in it as mentioned earlier. With proper gearing It should still really push you back in the seat. Looks like they're following the F1 technology more. Higher revs with less torque.
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03-23-2007, 12:10 PM | #31 |
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Yup looking at the power curve and torque curve am sure the new M3 will smoke the 335i's diesel like curve plus the drop off after 5k rpm. Let's see what the US C&D testers can do this fall, I mean for 0-60 mph time.
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03-23-2007, 12:51 PM | #32 |
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Possible 7-speed manual pattern
BMW always had reverse gear near 1st gear position.
It may look something like: R 1 3 5 7 |_|_|_|_| .. | | | .. 2 4 6 So far the picture shown from M3 concept and mule indicated there is a MT, has anyone confirmed if it is a 6 or 7 speed box from BMW official? I'd prefer SMG/ZSG with either 7 or 8 speed on the new V8. |
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03-23-2007, 01:46 PM | #33 | ||
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Intake pipe fuel injection is a fuel injection method, it has nothing to do with air intake or throttle bodies. It's the most common/conventional injection scheme, the injectors are placed inside the intake manifold and squirt fuel at the intake valve/air stream. In a direct inject engine, the injectors are placed inside the combustion chambers. Throttle body and MAF sensor are what control air flow, they have nothing to do with fuel injection. |
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03-23-2007, 02:10 PM | #34 | |
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03-23-2007, 02:15 PM | #35 | |
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But I fail to see why a flat curve at 296lb-ft, 3k-7k rpms is preferable to one that offers 296 lb-ft from 3k-7k rpms but peaks at 340lb-ft at say 5500rpm. Add a slightly different software module to the 296-340-296 version and it too becomes flat. Perhaps you can explain your wonderment at this "feat"? To me, the broad high-torque band is more impressive than the shape being flat, but again no more impressive than other performance engines I've named. |
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03-23-2007, 02:26 PM | #36 | |
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BUT....and a big one.... When the driver wants to step on it this engine obliges with revs up to 8400 rpm with a little bit of torque fall off. Revs + Torque = Work = Acceleration. In many ways the new BMW S65B40 is like a mullet.... Flexible on one hand and ready to party of the other..... This is what the other engines you listed don't have (maybe except the LS7) A side note: However, in comparing the torque curves of the V10 vs. V8, it looks like BMW made a conscience decision to keep the torque curve flat and allow some trail off at the higher rpms....whereas the V10 torque starts later but keeps it better in the high end.
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03-23-2007, 09:00 PM | #37 | |
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03-23-2007, 11:28 PM | #38 |
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in my opinion, when the new M3 comes out all the "torque doubters" will dissapear. we all know BMW has been concentrating on weight, and now we know that even the engine (which we all thought would be heavy, right) is actually significantly LIGHTER than the one in the e46. for me the main concern about weight was the engine, and now that that has been put to rest, i'm positive this car is going to be quite the performer. think e46 m3 with 100 more horsepower at higher RPM's, and significantly more torque at a lower RPM to boost performance off the line. shouldn't weigh any more than the e46 M3, imo. this is all speculation but i think people are being too negative.
the e46 M3 could hit 0-60 in 4.7-4.9 seconds with more a wider, more powerful torque curve and 100 more horsepower, with the same weight and better gearing due to the higher redline, expect this car to run low 4 second 60 runs and low 12 quarter miles. not to mention what it'll be able to do in the turns. this is going to be a SERIOUS performance car. BMW is not just going to sit back and let the IS-F outperform the M3. i can gurantee you that. |
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03-23-2007, 11:59 PM | #39 | |
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03-24-2007, 12:12 AM | #40 | |
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Nevertheless, the HP and flat torque are still impressive in the new V8. |
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03-24-2007, 12:51 AM | #41 |
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6 Speed
Had an internet conversation with a good guy who says he is from BMW and he claims the M3 will only get 6 gears in the Manual format and the DCT format (DSG / ZSG). He seems very credible.
BMW may be trying to save costs by going with a modular 6 speed. And the compromise they are making in the last 1500-2000 rpm to allow a flat torque curve in the lower RPMs would support a 6 speed box.... Oh well....I guess we will see.
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03-24-2007, 05:04 AM | #42 | |
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03-24-2007, 05:21 AM | #43 | |
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If it needs the torque multiplying assistance of gearing then I would rather BMW play around with the final drive and lessen the top speed potential (which will be limited to 163mph after all). This new engine sounds smooth enough so probably wouldn't suffer from engine noise at cruising speeds. I am planning on choosing a 6-speed manual for the M3 and then upgrading to the CSL when that arrives in a few years time. I am hoping that has SMG rather than a ZSG box at the time, but we'll see. |
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03-24-2007, 05:47 AM | #44 | |
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-Wouldn't 190 in an unrestricted M3 be nice though - what a thrill. -Isn't 2k rpm nice for mpg also. -What is your preference for SMG over ZSG? |
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