Track forum general chit chat.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's a tough call... if the expectation is that I'm going to 'check all the bolts before every track day' then the part in question is a no go.

That falls into the same category as the people who rotate brake pads every tire rotation. I guess some people love checking and rechecking, I like things that just work.

Then don't replace parts and stick with OEM parts that are tested and R&D'd with millions upon millions of dollar budgets. To replace an OEM part with an aftermarket part on a track or race car and expect it to be essentially maintenance free (never or very infrequently needing to check it) is mind boggling. Even IF you didn't need to check it after 'every track day', it certainly doesn't hurt doing so. It's very rare when bolt checking I actually find something loose, that doesn't mean it's a waste of time to do so. The vast majority of track junkies or racers I know are bolt checking their cars every, or every other event. And the one's that don't are the same one's that always seem to have issues of parts failing, coming loose 'suddenly', etc. Go to any high level race team (grassroots or pro) and ask them if they bolt check, they do it multiple times a weekend.

You do you. But the expectation of a part not being good enough if you have to check up on it is ridiculous lol.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's a tough call... if the expectation is that I'm going to 'check all the bolts before every track day' then the part in question is a no go.

Do you not do tech inspections before every event?

[dparm]

Seeing that failure doesn't change my perception of SPL Parts nor will I change my buying habits. This is one failure on one car of which we have very little information, to tsk94's point.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Do you not do tech inspections before every event?

There is a massive difference between 'checking all the bolts in a suspension' and passing a tech inspection.

There are many bolts attaching many things to the car. I do not check all of them before a track day

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by dparm

Seeing that failure doesn't change my perception of SPL Parts nor will I change my buying habits. This is one failure on one car of which we have very little information, to tsk94's point.

OGShark has had failures with their parts before too. Its funny, at the track day I went with him yesterday he mentioned he is running all stock arms with the Strom uprights and has been doing great. And then there's a post about an SPL failure.

Not having to worry about something like this failure is huge imo. And Jason isn't slow, so having some spherical bushings isn't going to make you any faster.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by b4hand

OGShark has had failures with their parts before too. Its funny, at the track day I went with him yesterday he mentioned he is running all stock arms with the Strom uprights and has been doing great. And then there's a post about an SPL failure.

Not having to worry about something like this failure is huge imo. And Jason isn't slow, so having some spherical bushings isn't going to make you any faster.

Wasn't the failure Jason had with a BW arm? OG Shark

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

There is a massive difference between 'checking all the bolts in a suspension' and passing a tech inspection.

There are many bolts attaching many things to the car. I do not check all of them before a track day

This. Is anyone actually checking all the bolts of all their suspension components?
Also, it looks like a sheer, not a bolt issue.

[Move Over]

Do we have any video? Just playing devils advocate (I also have the SPL conversion and have not had issues), but that type of damage can be easily done in an impact with a wall. I know that car has a data logger so I'd be curious to see the wheel speeds and brake pressure at the time of the failure/impact. I think all this is important to share due to the amount of people who have these.

I find it odd that the tension arm would just straight up snap. There's a minimum thread per SPL that needs to be inserted into the arm, was this followed? If these were brand new, were they tightened properly, or just hand tight quarter turn? I know DJ TJ well, so I'm assuming all the answers are yes.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

This. Is anyone actually checking all the bolts of all their suspension components?
Also, it looks like a sheer, not a bolt issue.

I do, but I have super easy access to do so as I have the lift. I recently even started marking everything with a white pen. I'm also beyond anal about torque specs and my alignments.

Talking about failure rate, do we have any other documented failures of this or is this a one time thing?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

This. Is anyone actually checking all the bolts of all their suspension components?
Also, it looks like a sheer, not a bolt issue.

My bolt checking comment had almost nothing to do with the SPL arm failure, hope that isn't causing confusion. Considering it was a brand new arm, the issue is either a defective product from SPL, driver induced damage, or some form of improper installation (least likely) leading to the sheer.

And yeah, I know lot's of people that are checking all their bolts. Is it really that uncommon and I and the others I know are out of the norm? Paint marking is your friend too.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

This. Is anyone actually checking all the bolts of all their suspension components?
Also, it looks like a sheer, not a bolt issue.

I mean, it's 4 bolts per arm. ~4 arms per wheel... 4 wheels... 64 bolts.

But that's just for the suspension arms.

Apparently we need to check all the aftermarket parts. Let's tally that up real quick and see what I'm told it is 'crazy' not to check before every track day.

BBK: 2 bolts for the bracket to the car, 2 bolts for the caliper onto the bracket, 2 bolts for the bridge, 4 brakes: 24 bolts
I guess it would be really risky to not also check the bolts that join the iron rotor to the alu hat. 40 bolts

My suspension is aftermarket. Looks like I have to check that as well.
top suspension bolts: 4
bottom suspension bolts: 4
sway bar end links: 2 per wheel: 8
sway bar brackets: 8
total suspension: 24

So quick math says 152 bolts. Pretty impressed with some of you guys!

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I mean, it's 4 bolts per arm. ~4 arms per wheel... 4 wheels... 64 bolts.

But that's just for the suspension arms.

Apparently we need to check all the aftermarket parts. Let's tally that up real quick and see what I'm told it is 'crazy' not to check before every track day.

BBK: 2 bolts for the bracket to the car, 2 bolts for the caliper onto the bracket, 2 bolts for the bridge, 4 brakes: 24 bolts
I guess it would be really risky to not also check the bolts that join the iron rotor to the alu hat. 40 bolts

My suspension is aftermarket. Looks like I have to check that as well.
top suspension bolts: 4
bottom suspension bolts: 4
sway bar end links: 2 per wheel: 8
sway bar brackets: 8
total suspension: 24

So quick math says 152 bolts. Pretty impressed with some of you guys!

By me saying I check them, I mark them all. If the mark stays lined up, no need to check torque

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I mean, it's 4 bolts per arm. ~4 arms per wheel... 4 wheels... 64 bolts.

But that's just for the suspension arms.

Apparently we need to check all the aftermarket parts. Let's tally that up real quick and see what I'm told it is 'crazy' not to check before every track day.

BBK: 2 bolts for the bracket to the car, 2 bolts for the caliper onto the bracket, 2 bolts for the bridge, 4 brakes: 24 bolts
I guess it would be really risky to not also check the bolts that join the iron rotor to the alu hat. 40 bolts

My suspension is aftermarket. Looks like I have to check that as well.
top suspension bolts: 4
bottom suspension bolts: 4
sway bar end links: 2 per wheel: 8
sway bar brackets: 8
total suspension: 24

So quick math says 152 bolts. Pretty impressed with some of you guys!

It literally takes 30 minutes...

Thanks for adding it all up though

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Then don't replace parts and stick with OEM parts that are tested and R&D'd with millions upon millions of dollar budgets. To replace an OEM part with an aftermarket part on a track or race car and expect it to be essentially maintenance free (never or very infrequently needing to check it) is mind boggling. Even IF you didn't need to check it after 'every track day', it certainly doesn't hurt doing so. It's very rare when bolt checking I actually find something loose, that doesn't mean it's a waste of time to do so. The vast majority of track junkies or racers I know are bolt checking their cars every, or every other event. And the one's that don't are the same one's that always seem to have issues of parts failing, coming loose 'suddenly', etc. Go to any high level race team (grassroots or pro) and ask them if they bolt check, they do it multiple times a weekend.

You do you. But the expectation of a part not being good enough if you have to check up on it is ridiculous lol.

I'm sorry, I completely disagree. I think it's ridiculous to have to check every bolt before every track day. There are a lot of bolts in the car.

Checking bolts before every track day is not 'bad', the same as going every day to have a medical exam is not 'bad', I just find it to be a waste of time.

If a part requires constant 'checking' to operate, then it does not operate correctly. I don't know how else to say it.
Somehow I have a bunch of parts on two track cars that require zero checking/rechecking before every track day and somehow, although the car is driven to/from the track, so far all is good. I don't think I'm that lucky.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Move Over

By me saying I check them, I mark them all. If the mark stays lined up, no need to check torque

That's different.

My point is things should 'work'. That is my expectation. If I need to be checking on something every track day then I don't consider it 'works'.

I do all the car work myself so I'm very familiar with it, but I still don't check and recheck constantly.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Move Over

By me saying I check them, I mark them all. If the mark stays lined up, no need to check torque

Exactly. Lots are paint marked and unless they've moved they don't need to be physically checked.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm sorry, I completely disagree. I think it's ridiculous to have to check every bolt. There are a lot of bolts in the car.

Checking bolts before every track day is not 'bad', the same as going every day to have a medical exam is not 'bad', I just find it to be a waste of time.

If a part requires constant 'checking' to operate, then it does not operate correctly. I don't know how else to say it.
Somehow I have a bunch of parts on two track cars that require zero checking/rechecking before every track day and somehow, although the car is driven to/from the track, so far all is good. I don't think I'm that lucky.

Then we'll agree to disagree.

Like I mentioned, I know very few FAST drivers/racers that are really pushing their cars that aren't bolt checking frequently. Hard track use loosens stuff up, end of story. Is checking 'every bolt, every time' overkill? 99% of the time it is. And I'm not checking every single bolt, as per my above comment, but I am bolt checking the car after every day. But you'll be wishing you did if some dumb preventable incident happens. If you don't want to take the time to check them on your car that's fine.

[Bartledoo]

I do too many track days to be checking bolts every time, so I run oe arms with spherical bearings. I've never liked the look of the spl arms anyways. They just look kinda sketchy to me, like they would never take a decent hit.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Exactly. Lots are paint marked and unless they've moved they don't need to be physically checked.



Then we'll agree to disagree.

Like I mentioned, I know very few FAST drivers/racers that are really pushing their cars that aren't bolt checking frequently. Hard track use loosens stuff up, end of story. Is checking 'every bolt, every time' overkill? 99% of the time it is. But you'll be wishing you did when some dumb preventable incident happens. If you don't want to take the time to check them on your car that's fine.

We can agree to disagree, it seems to happen often but it's ok

I guess I'm just not fast

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We can agree to disagree, it seems to happen often but it's ok

I guess I'm just not fast

Hehe, guess not

[evilspiritM3]

Well hopefully we can get some useful first hand accounts, data, video, etc.

Appreciate anyone pushing the owner/driver to make us all smarter- obviously on their own schedule.

Disclosure: I've got all the SPL stuff so I'm certainly an interested party like others here.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

I do too many track days to be checking bolts every time, so I run oe arms with spherical bearings. I've never liked the look of the spl arms anyways. They just look kinda sketchy to me, like they would never take a decent hit.

I think the people that don't have this misconception that it's a huge task, when it's really not. Like Move Over mentioned, paint marks are a big help. Almost half of the bolts can be paint marked and save you from needing to physically check them. Beyond that the whole process takes under 30 minutes once you've done it a few times, and that's me doing it on a creeper while the car is on quick jacks. On a hoist it would be even faster.

I have a hard time believing people don't have 30 minutes extra to spare when getting ready for their next upcoming track day. And it's not like you need to do it EVERY single day, every 2nd day out is better then once or twice a season XD

[rhyary]

I have a quickjack and after each trackday I lift the car up, take the wheels off and look. While I don't check every bolt, I do look carefully with a flashlight to see if something does not look right. I admit to enjoy it, so perhaps not a chore.

Having say that, I always see something that needs attention.

I will now add looking at the SPL setup to see if things are moving. The good news that after 3 trackdays the alignment has not budge. An improvement over the other aftermarket arms I used to have.