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      06-23-2019, 07:14 PM   #89
M43S7RO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
So it’s +15 rwhp and +8 lbs rwtq from headers and midpipe over testpipes.

Based on that, I’d say the headers and “larger” diameter piping midpipe are worth ~5-10 rwhp and maybe ~5 lbs rwtq over stock headers and the typical catless x-pipe.

Still worthwhile for someone chasing every gain

There is also the xpipe merge location moved forward vs the traditional OEM merge location of many pipes. I imagine this further reduces the gain attributed only to the header.

BW Xpipe vs test pipes on OEM xpipe dyno comparison:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1413876

Velaforza data here vs Akra:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=855575

Last edited by M43S7RO; 06-23-2019 at 07:19 PM..
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      06-23-2019, 07:57 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M43S7RO View Post
There is also the xpipe merge location moved forward vs the traditional OEM merge location of many pipes. I imagine this further reduces the gain attributed only to the header.

BW Xpipe vs test pipes on OEM xpipe dyno comparison:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1413876

Velaforza data here vs Akra:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=855575
Nope i all ready disproved the moving the x forward when i dynoed with a cattless gintani x pipe first and then add the full american racing headers and x pipe, i made 10 more hp and 10 torq over the best x pipe on the market and i did it with also adding cats, way hotter and more humidity.
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      06-23-2019, 08:19 PM   #91
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Wtf is this “real actual dyno testing with video after promising to do so” bullshit

Where’s my two years of speculation and flame wars

Man, F this I’m out
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      06-23-2019, 08:24 PM   #92
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I'm not sure what you disproved...

Headers and forward merge on the xpipe are both adding additional power here. The dyno's by the OP only show the difference between oem xpip with test pipes and the full becker header system with forward merge xpipe. So the full power gain cannot be attributed to the headers themselves.

The links I provided demonstrate that a decent amount of additional power is made simply by using an xpipe with the forward merge xpipe.

You stating that you made ~10hp with headers over the Gintani pipe somewhat proves my point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darkbmw View Post
Nope i all ready disproved the moving the x forward when i dynoed with a cattless gintani x pipe first and then add the full american racing headers and x pipe, i made 10 more hp and 10 torq over the best x pipe on the market and i did it with also adding cats, way hotter and more humidity.
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      06-24-2019, 12:06 AM   #93
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What has happened to this country

For a second there, I thought I was buying a machine gun
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      06-24-2019, 05:21 AM   #94
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There has been some federal crackdown on the sale of devices that defeat emissions. No company wants the feds coming after them and fining them. The fines can be pretty big. Get someone in a neighboring state to order for you.
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      06-24-2019, 08:05 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochen_00 View Post
Would there be the possibility to mount the Becker headers togheter to an akra evo exhaust line? It could be a good combo
Anything is possible, it just depends on what you are working with. Akra rear section does have adapters to mount to factory a midsection, you would need that. If you have the full akra system, then i believe it doesn't come with the stock flange adapter.

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Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
BTW bro, beautiful car!!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrit View Post
Nice gains for the price, I wonder how much it would help on a supercharged motor.
ARH gains have been tested on s/c motors, see the links provided a few posts down from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredicus View Post
How secure do you feel the copper nuts are on there? I noticed the OEM designs has a sort of "countersunk" surface due to the design of the header flanges whereas this design is a flat plate. Do the header mounting studs on the block protrude enough to get a secure fit with the copper nuts?
One of the pictures I posted the nuts were only hand tight, I had to remove them since the engine mount arms were not installed and couldn't fit with the headers in place. There is just enough threads to fully engage the nuts, ideally a few mm longer studs would be good.

Last edited by tdott; 06-24-2019 at 08:16 AM..
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      06-24-2019, 08:15 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M43S7RO View Post
There is also the xpipe merge location moved forward vs the traditional OEM merge location of many pipes. I imagine this further reduces the gain attributed only to the header.

BW Xpipe vs test pipes on OEM xpipe dyno comparison:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1413876

Velaforza data here vs Akra:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=855575
Those are both are supercharged cars, so not exactly apples to apples but there are similar gains just not to the same extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Wtf is this “real actual dyno testing with video after promising to do so” bullshit

Where’s my two years of speculation and flame wars

Man, F this I’m out
I know eh, How dear I do what I say I was going to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M43S7RO View Post
The links I provided demonstrate that a decent amount of additional power is made simply by using an xpipe with the forward merge xpipe.
Again those links were of supercharged cars, so the "decent amount of power" can't be taken at face value. There will be gains on an NA motor, just not the same amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M43S7RO View Post
You stating that you made ~10hp with headers over the Gintani pipe somewhat proves my point.
To be 100% clear he added cats to the ARH mid section which also has the X further up. So his changes were headers + hfc to make 10whp which should all be attributed to the ARH headers. The hfc maybe reduced his gains by a few hp, so if there was a truly apples to apples, ARH headers alone probably would have made more than 10whp.

Your point is taken about my dynos not showing only gains from the headers. In my case I wasn't going from a catless xpipe with x further up, to headers, which most people probably wont be. So to me it doesn't matter as long as my new setup made more power and sounded how i wanted from the old setup.
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      06-24-2019, 09:12 AM   #97
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Here is a go pro sound clip to give you an idea of what my setup sounds like in varying driving conditions.

Initial start up, part throttle cruising, 2nd gear pull, parking garage rev.
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      06-24-2019, 05:13 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Here is a go pro sound clip to give you an idea of what my setup sounds like in varying driving conditions.

Initial start up, part throttle cruising, 2nd gear pull, parking garage rev.
It sounds MUCH deeper and throatier than any other catless setup I've heard Much less rasp too.
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      06-24-2019, 08:57 PM   #99
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Sounds good! How's the volume? Would you say louder or quieter than a typical catless setup?
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      06-24-2019, 09:15 PM   #100
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Sounds nice
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      06-25-2019, 01:51 AM   #101
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Gains are gains, even if there weren't gains I would still purchase the header system over any other x-pipe on the market for the sound... V8s with Xpipes closer to the motor has always been a gain in performance for most applications, numbers are great for the price and the system is a really good deal. I might move forward and pick a set up! Thanks for the information and post provided!!!
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      06-26-2019, 12:52 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMM3Y View Post
Sounds good! How's the volume? Would you say louder or quieter than a typical catless setup?
I think volume will depend on which rear section this is paired with. I've heard several super loud setups one being a meistershalft and mine isn't as loud which is a good thing for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GORDON.M3 View Post
Gains are gains, even if there weren't gains I would still purchase the header system over any other x-pipe on the market for the sound... V8s with Xpipes closer to the motor has always been a gain in performance for most applications, numbers are great for the price and the system is a really good deal. I might move forward and pick a set up! Thanks for the information and post provided!!!
Agree, for the price and xpipe included, it's a pretty good value for anyone looking to run a catless setup.
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      07-06-2019, 03:45 AM   #103
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I will legit buy after seeing some dynos🙏🏽
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      07-06-2019, 01:57 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igM3NACER View Post
I will legit buy after seeing some dynos🙏🏽
He showed dynos. Order up
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      07-06-2019, 04:20 PM   #105
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Quick question as I only read the first page and certain sections, excuse me if this has already been answered but you made +15 more over test pipes, did the new headers come with a new x pipe as well? It looks like it's not just the headers. Does the new x pipe have secondary cats still in place? Looks like it's 1st section of x pipe
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      07-07-2019, 04:52 AM   #106
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Does anyone know if this was on a mustang dyno? Numbers seem low. But definitely no question that the headers made 15 whp over test pipes😅 im sure im not the only one buying now
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      07-07-2019, 06:30 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalcoding View Post
Quick question as I only read the first page and certain sections, excuse me if this has already been answered but you made +15 more over test pipes, did the new headers come with a new x pipe as well? It looks like it's not just the headers. Does the new x pipe have secondary cats still in place? Looks like it's 1st section of x pipe
If no one will answer your question for you, you could read the thread.
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      07-07-2019, 06:55 AM   #108
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there are no cats, it replaces the entire xpipe with a custom xpipe fitted for the long tube headers
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      07-07-2019, 12:01 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkbmw View Post
there are no cats, it replaces the entire xpipe with a custom xpipe fitted for the long tube headers
Then the results aren't technically +15 over test pipes. Secondary cat delete gives a bump in power as well. Why didn't op just put the headers on with sticks pipe and test pipes and report back?
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      07-07-2019, 12:13 PM   #110
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All this was discussed in the thread.
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