Cayman GT4 vs E92 M3 (very long but organized)

[anselmw]

Originally Posted by ayao

I turned down a MSRP allocation 6 months ago and have eventually come to peace with that decision. Your post is going to be sending me back to therapy.

Wow, i was not even expecting to get one and when offered, I jumped at it and it was the worse timing as we were building a new house!

[///M Ryder]

Originally Posted by anselmw

Wow, i was not even expecting to get one and when offered, I jumped at it and it was the worse timing as we were building a new house!

Tell me about it. I had just finished building a new house and got a allocation shortly afterwards........Phil

[jphughan]

How funny, after I got an allocation we ended up finding a house and closing on it a month before I bought the car. We had planned to buy about 6 months later and figured we'd just start looking casually to see what was out there, get a sense of what we liked and didn't like, what was realistic, etc, but we found the right place earlier than expected after passing on MANY properties that didn't tick all of the boxes, so we knew we had to jump on this. And looking at listings for fun since then, nothing else that's just right has come up since. Fortunately I was able to make it all work.

[IIAp3x]

great review!

[Fang911]

Not the same comparison (2011 E90 M3 vs 2007 GT3)- Both great cars but completely different and almost incomparable. No question the gt3 (and presumably the gt4) is a scalpel compared to the M3's hammer but i find it impossible to say that one is "better" than the other. My GT3 is a precision instrument with phenomenal handling, tactile steering, superb shifter, legendary engine + soundtrack- but is best suited for the track or sunday morning drives; it can be tiresome during rush-hour traffic. The M3 (imho) has no peer as a "driver's" DD- a V8 for the ages + crisp dct + very good handling / steering + creature comforts wrapped in a very attractive body. Of course it's not as good around a track but its much better for daily driving- and if forced to keep only one for daily use- i'd retain the M3 no question.

As a aside- have been looking around recently for potential alternatives to the M- including panamera gts, s6, rs7, CTS-v, GS-F- nothing offers the same blend of power, comfort, luxury, and immediacy- everything else feels heavy and syrupy in comparison. Only the new C63s strikes a similar chord in my book- but i dont like the droopy butt (and no flares) + the ipad dash screen- will be keeping the M for a long while!

[LeMans333]

great post!

[/Rock//It///M]

Great post to the OP and fangs I like what your saying. As we are looking at similar cars for my wife's next dd. I am keeping my E90 as a my daily. And after she gets her new car will be looking to add a gt car. Either a 997 gt3 or a gt4

[12mpgm3]

Thanks so much for posting such an incredible summary of the differences that we would all want to hear about as enthusiasts! When my lease on my M3 was coming up, I really wanted a GT4 but couldn't get an allocation. Now that I have bought out my M3, I have settled down and am going to keep it for a few years at least. My only hesitations with the GT4 were the gear ratios and also the engine difference since I saw the GT4 engine as less of a true motorsport design vs the S65 (not that the GT4 engine isn't outstanding - it is!). While it would be great to have a GT4, I am not willing to pay over MSRP for it while I am still loving my M3!

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by 12mpgm3

Thanks so much for posting such an incredible summary of the differences that we would all want to hear about as enthusiasts! When my lease on my M3 was coming up, I really wanted a GT4 but couldn't get an allocation. Now that I have bought out my M3, I have settled down and am going to keep it for a few years at least. My only hesitations with the GT4 were the gear ratios and also the engine difference since I saw the GT4 engine as less of a true motorsport design vs the S65 (not that the GT4 engine isn't outstanding - it is!). While it would be great to have a GT4, I am not willing to pay over MSRP for it while I am still loving my M3!

Right there with you on all fronts. I had just resolved that I would be keeping my M3 long-term since there was nothing else on the market or confirmed to be coming that appealed to me more....but that was about 2 weeks before the GT4 was confirmed, hence my "Damn you Porsche!" thread in the "M3 vs" section of this forum. I was also lucky to get an allocation at MSRP, and had that not been the case I too would likely have decided to stick it out with the M3 for a few more years and either get a GT4 at that point or maybe even an M2 based on what I'm reading. The interior is a little cheaper than I'd like, but everything I'm reading suggests that despite the weight it's a very nimble car that delivers the type of experience I like. Of course maybe that should leave people encouraged for the prospects of the next-gen M3!

[admranger]

Very nice write up!

How are the blind spots (vision in general) with the spruce goose, errr, large rear wing out back?

If you don't have them in your delivery pic gallery (headed there next), please post pics of the cargo storage areas. I'm curious as to how much/little will fit for real world use.

USCTrojan had his GT4 over a while back and offered me the keys to take it for a drive (and we have round abouts in our neighborhood (I've had a ticket in one, luckily not for the 4x recommended speed through it that I was doing at the time), so it would have been fun. However, I reluctantly turned his generous offer down. He might as well have put a top class 'escort' in front of me in my wife's eyes. I don't need a divorce at this point in my life. I did sit in it though but the race seats were a bit much for a daily driver and a guy with a bad knee (fortunately, the right knee, so no issues getting out). BTW: does club soda take out stains in alcantara? Asking for a friend.

I guess I'll just suffer and stick with my "grocery getter". It's a burden, but I'll persevere.

Again, great write up!

[BNBM3]

I didn't find this very well organized. Can we down vote?

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Added a couple, plus there's a link in my sig for delivery pics

Yeah it seems a fair number of GT4 buyers have S2000s for weekend/track cars, and apparently there's a distinct commonality to the driving experience. I'd love to drive an S2000 sometime.

Yea I take delivery of my GT4 in July and I'm lucky enough to have a fantastic S2K that will primarily be my track car because of the cheaper consumables and lower value. I'm really excited to compare both cars on track.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by admranger

Very nice write up!

How are the blind spots (vision in general) with the spruce goose, errr, large rear wing out back?

If you don't have them in your delivery pic gallery (headed there next), please post pics of the cargo storage areas. I'm curious as to how much/little will fit for real world use.

USCTrojan had his GT4 over a while back and offered me the keys to take it for a drive (and we have round abouts in our neighborhood (I've had a ticket in one, luckily not for the 4x recommended speed through it that I was doing at the time), so it would have been fun. However, I reluctantly turned his generous offer down. He might as well have put a top class 'escort' in front of me in my wife's eyes. I don't need a divorce at this point in my life. I did sit in it though but the race seats were a bit much for a daily driver and a guy with a bad knee (fortunately, the right knee, so no issues getting out). BTW: does club soda take out stains in alcantara? Asking for a friend.

I guess I'll just suffer and stick with my "grocery getter". It's a burden, but I'll persevere.

Again, great write up!

Thanks! Blind spots are actually not bad at all. The wing's cross section is narrow enough that it doesn't create a major issue. The only exception is that sometimes it seems to block the light sensor for the auto-dimming mirror function, so sometimes that doesn't activate at night when it should, but it still works well enough overall. And side visibility is fine as long you have your mirrors properly adjusted.

I didn't address things like cargo space because (in addition to my post being plenty long already! ) I was trying to keep the comparison specific to the GT4 rather than the 981 platform in general since that information is pretty well out there, but below are photos of my empty frunk (so you can see the bottom) as well as my frunk and rear area storing my 24x15x10" Samsonite carry-on suitcase I use for traveling. As you can see, in the frunk it fits with plenty of room left on all sides. I could easily get my large backpack (for a 17" laptop) AND probably 2-3 smaller duffels or grocery-type reusable bags in there. But for regular use, I have this frunk liner in there. It's sturdy, pretty rigid plastic (more like a bucket) and I have it so that I can transport things that are wet or may leak (like my jack when I go to the track) without fear of messing up the upholstery in there.

In the rear, the low height of the rearmost segment definitely limits what you can place back there. My suitcase is BARELY under the wire there, and if I had it overstuffed after a trip I wouldn't feel good about slamming down the hatch with it there. My track helmet also barely clears, though that I need to press as far forward as I can. Additionally, the front and rear edges of that cargo area are arced slightly, so something that fits in the center might not fit on the sides. Basically the rear area is better suited for stashing an assortment of small/medium items rather than bigger, bulky items. The area on top of the engine might be usable, but taller items would definitely hamper rear visibility, and securing items under a cargo net would probably be mandatory there. That cargo would also be visible from outside the car.

And the last cargo storage area are the two cubbies on either side of the engine compartment, one open and one closed in the pic. They're 10x4.5x8", so MUCH deeper than you'd guess. They'd be a great place for spare bottles of fluid and the like, although they're a bit harder to access with the bucket seats since they don't have a folding backrest, and they're too far forward to comfortably reach from the rear of the car. Those seats incidentally would indeed be tough with a bad knee (sorry about that!), and as for cleaning Alcantara, the product everyone talks about is Sonax 206141. I haven't used it myself, but everyone seems to swear by it.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by BNBM3

I didn't find this very well organized. Can we down vote?

How about instead I'll just refund what you had to pay to access my review?

[admranger]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Thanks! Blind spots are actually not bad at all. The wing's cross section is narrow enough that it doesn't create a major issue. The only exception is that sometimes it seems to block the light sensor for the auto-dimming mirror function, so sometimes that doesn't activate at night when it should, but it still works well enough overall. And side visibility is fine as long you have your mirrors properly adjusted.

I didn't address things like cargo space because (in addition to my post being plenty long already! ) I was trying to keep the comparison specific to the GT4 rather than the 981 platform in general since that information is pretty well out there, but below are photos of my frunk empty (so you can see the bottom) as well as my 24x15x10" Samsonite carry-on suitcase I use when I travel in both the frunk and rear area. As you can see, in the frunk it fits with plenty of room left on all sides. I could easily get my large backpack (for a 17" laptop) AND probably 2-3 smaller duffels or grocery-type reusable bags in there. But for regular use, I have this frunk liner in there. It's sturdy, pretty rigid plastic (more like a bucket) and I have it so that I can transport things that are wet or may leak (like my jack when I go to the track) without fear of messing up the upholstery in there.

In the rear, the low height of the rearmost segment definitely limits what you can place back there. My suitcase is BARELY under the wire there, and if I had it overstuffed after a trip I wouldn't feel good about slamming down the hatch with it there. My track helmet also barely clears, though that I need to press as far forward as I can. Additionally, the front and rear edges of that cargo area are arced slightly, so something that fits in the center might not fit on the sides. Basically the rear area is better suited for stashing an assortment of small/medium items rather than bigger, bulky items. The area on top of the engine might be usable, but taller items would definitely hamper rear visibility, and securing items under a cargo net would probably be mandatory there. That cargo would also be visible from outside the car.

And the last cargo storage area are the two cubbies on either side of the engine compartment, one open and one closed in the pic. They're 10x4.5x8", so MUCH deeper than you'd guess. They'd be a great place for spare bottles of fluid and the like, although they're a bit harder to access with the bucket seats since they don't have a folding backrest, and they're too far forward to comfortably reach from the rear of the car. Those seats incidentally would indeed be tough with a bad knee (sorry about that!), and as for cleaning Alcantara, the product everyone talks about is Sonax 206141. I haven't used it myself, but everyone seems to swear by it.

Nice info. Thanks! I also subscribe to your view of track time and timing. I don't worry about it anymore, having retired from racing when all I did was chase time. It's about enjoyment now and the satisfaction of placing the car where I want it when I want it there. Fun times.

[BNBM3]

Originally Posted by jphughan

How about instead I'll just refund what you had to pay to access my review?

I think I could figure out a way to put a monetary value on it

The Cayman GT4 is on my short list for next daily driver. Interesting to read about it. Not an M3 replacement for me, though. Was also considering picking up a used Cayman S and turbo charging it. The TPC kits look pretty cool.

[car_fan]

Beautiful car, something aspiring to transition to. Love the color of your GT4 as well. I've had my e9s since new, and plan on keeping it. Trying to make a decision on an addition

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by car_fan

Beautiful car, something aspiring to transition to. Love the color of your GT4 as well. I've had my e9s since new, and plan on keeping it. Trying to make a decision on an addition

Thanks! Yeah I turned out to get lucky on that exterior color (Dark Blue Metallic) because it was discontinued just a few months into GT4 production with no real reason given. Someone who really wanted the color even contacted PCNA asking why it was cancelled and just got some weird answer that gave no actual information.

[davesaddiction]

Nice - how many were made of the color?

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Nice - how many were made of the color?

39 total in the US and Canada, not sure about RoW.

[Eliminator 429]

Thanks OP, this was a great read! I badly want to test drive a Gt4....

[dfw335i]

I kept my E92 M3 because it is a great DD, although my GT4 is more thrilling and "special" to drive. You really can't beat mid-engine and low weight. Once you go Cayman, you realize what you've been missing all these years. I went from a 335i to an '06 Cayman S and thought, "OMG, this is a different world." I realized then that it's really Porsche that is the Ultimate Driving Machine. I thought about selling the E92 but figured that I would really regret selling it years from now due to the S65 being unique and high-revving. Had an S2K back in the day, which I also regret selling, and do think that the S2K's shifter is just a smidge better than the GT4 shifter. The S2K had such a short throw and rifle-bolt feel. Honda has lost its way since then.