BMW considering cutting the cylinder count on M-models (and using FI) ?

[Numb3rs]

A 3.2 liter inline-6, biturbo could produce 450hp/450ft-lb of torque reliably with no problem and weigh less than the current N54, if the M-Division wanted to make it.

We already know that a Dinan controlled N54 in a 335i makes the car accelerate a few tenth slower than the current M3. There is no turbo lag, it pulls strong and is an excellent first attempt at biturbo technology.

Add a slightly larger base engine and rework the exhaust headers and beef up the small turbos and you have a powerplant that is superior to the S65. Better fuel efficiency, better torque and more HP. Lighter too.

I am sure the M variant would invest heavily in cooling and have mulitple oil coolers, etc.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by Last E92 M3

...i am probably the only one against his FI idea...i hope m stays NA. (high rev NA that is...)

No you're not - I'm right there with you. I love the NA high rev concept. I'm glad that I will be getting a NA V8 M3. It would be a shame to see them change.

[ersin]

I don't see why the horsepower race has to stop. I don't know how many of you remember the late '70s and early '80s. (Am I dating myself?) The mandated pollution controls made all the cars of that era really slow. Zero to 60 in under 8 seconds was fast. But now we have much more horsepower AND we have "greener" engines. Technology and progress march on. There will be high mileage, high horsepower, higher efficiency vehicles in the future. These things are not mutually exclusive. Look at the current M3 V8 vs. the E46 I6: more horsepower, lighter weight, more efficient and greener too. I can't wait for the future.

I do wish they would cut weight because the cars will be much more toss-able and fun. But government mandated safety devices make our cars into pigs.

[e90kid]

while all of this talk is very necessary for a productive future and i totally agree with keeping the power but going greener ...isn't it sad that the brand new M3 line-up was just released and there is already talk about future production M3s and what could be done differently ?!?!?

[ersin]

Originally Posted by e90kid

...isn't it sad that the brand new M3 line-up was just released and there is already talk about future production M3s and what could be done differently ?!?!?

No, it's not sad. Talk like this is what makes progress possible.

[e90kid]

if u read what i said u would have seen that i agree with you in that talk like this is very important for the future!

[ruff]

Mkoesel,

Excellent thread starter. Love these type philosophical discussions. Richter has already hinted about F1. These times remind me of the the mid seventies with an oil crisis looming and the rush to down grade power in the name of efficiency. Like I have said before, in the not too distant future, a NA V8 powered M3, sporting the 6mt is going to be a rare bird indeed and likely heading for classic/cult status. Get one why the getting is good.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by e90kid

if u read what i said u would have seen that i agree with you in that talk like this is very important for the future!

Sorry, I misread you then. It really sounded like you were against that.

[PIMP "E"]

yeah the old M3 i6 with 2 turbos would be mean. i mean the i6, pound for pound, is the best built engine ever. the ///M will be like a built up supra or skyline.

[e46e92love]

What they need to do is figure a way to make a performance car run on hydrogen, everything else is just band aides to the problem of finite resources and major global environmental issues........

[E24]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Oh yes, I do see your point and share your opinion!! But F1 does have a very, very small 2.4 L engine!! But again, I agree that the hp race has to stop and we ought to go the weight and efficiency rout!!! Ethanol has higher octaine (of about 104) so even our E92 M3 V-8's could be tunned to rev up even higher and yield more power and being greener!!!

Read this story. The Ethanol craze is ruining us!

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/W...d_ethanol_hoax

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by E24

Read this story. The Ethanol craze is ruining us!

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/W...d_ethanol_hoax

Yep, there is some of that going around, but Ethonal has its advantages when produced from non feed stocks such as algea etc... then we can move on to hydrogen in a couple of decades or so!!! We be great for car performance and for the envronment. Thanks for the article!!!!!!!

[chicagobimmerboy]

In last months Motortrend Magazine, AMG's boss said that Hybrid technology, direct injection, and forced induction will spread to all of hte AMG line soon, say from 2010 and on. BMW now is considering FI for its bread and butter (///M) but this may not be so bad, as long as they make FI M cars, light, nimble, high revving, and perhaps most important a joy to drive, an elimental drivers car. So long as they do that we need not wory, I mean after all a hybrid AMG! just imagine some joker buzzing along in a 6.3 AMG hybrid, while you whoosh past in a TT M car at 8000RPM and getting the same if not better MPG. It might be untraditional, it might be a "sell-out" but look at it this way, Formula One is going turbo, Ford's Mustang is dropping its V8 for a TTV6, The next Ferrari Enzo-ish car will be TT, its not selling out or giving up, its evolution. Adapt or die and I think its clear what BMW has in mind for itself. What do you all think?

[Davo2003]

I brought all this up six months ago and was flamed and shouted down...hate to say I told you so...but I told you so.

[PhilipS50]

I think the R&D money would be better spent on finding lightweight materials that are cheap to make.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

what people are assuming is that he was referring to the V8 getting cut down. He is more likely talking about the V10 getting cut down and using forced induction. If my memory serves me right, a new V8 N64 is a twin turbo getting 400hp the same performance as the V10 without pushing the //M button. So software and //M components could essentially do the same when added to the to it. Too much research went into the V8 in the //M3 to kill it, more likely they will use that engine and a twin turbo setup like in the N64 to get even more ponies. The V8 in the M3 weighs less than the previous 6 so that is not the issue with weight, the cars weigh more because of more rigidity and density in materials for performance and occupant safety versus older cars as well as additional safety equipment. People forget that the some of the high strength materials in the safety cage weigh more than in the past, the remainder of the car tends to be lighter. They even shave weight now by making button and levers hollow where in the past they were solid.
I can see the M5/M6 getting and engine update since they have been around since late 04 early 05 and were designed around the SMG, which has been on its way out for years.

Which does make sense after seeing the ///M5 with the extra taped up vents - speculated to be a twin-turbo model

[Romo]

BMW can not avoid Turbo technology anymore, due to EU legislation and environmental issues ( IPCC, Al Gore and so on)

CO2 levels have to be reduced by law, therefore no choice what so ever......................

[Just_me]

Quoting the famous Scott from another board:

Why so serious? M division have many intentions but the output war is over , it is not defeat for BMW or surrender. Just the priorities have changed
As I have mentioned before M-Division will become the pinnacle for BMW's "Efficient Dynamics" programme. Lower emissions are what is capable with turbo charging . As I said a few years ago on the annoucement of BMW turbo-charged future. "Turbo charging would be on BMW's terms" And the fear alluded when the 335i appeared in 2006. M-Division have some interesting developments upcoming that do use twin and quad-turbos.

First of all you will see M fettled model of the 1er Coupe and Cabrio it wont be known as the M1 but M135i it will use a boosted output of the current 135i to 355 PS , why M135i? There was no original M6 the E63 is the first M6 the latter was simply the M635 , that is why it makes more sense to follow this tradition. Also to be available will be a CS package (Coupe only) that will involve the addition of lightweight body panels such as Carbon Fibre reinforced roof and additional performance enhancing equipment . An M120i will be the entry model again using a four cylinder turbo charged powerplant of 240PS again with option of the CS package. As of now the 135i is doing well it wont be disturbed or unleashed of it's potential until late 2009.

It is best to move the benchmarks before being taken off the road altogether.

http://www.germancarzone.com/bmw-lou...duction-2.html

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

F1 will keep the 2.4L V8 until the end of the 2010 season at least!!

FIA put a ten year freeze on F1 engine development.

[ase2dais]

I dont know if I like this force induction idea, the only thing that bothered me punching the gas on these 335s was the micro second spooling delay, and I hate to experience the same on the new M3. This may accelerate some 08 M purchases for some

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by ase2dais

I dont know if I like this force induction idea, the only thing that bothered me punching the gas on these 335s was the micro second spooling delay, and I hate to experience the same on the new M3. This may accelerate some 08 M purchases for some

Which is not a spooling delay, it is an electronics delay, everything goes through wires and computers nothing is direct anymore. If they would use dual core processors at current speeds to run the algorithms there would be no perceivable delay but that would be expensive. The turbos are near fully spooled at idle b/c of the small size, low inertia and specialized materials so there is no lag or delay. Just about every car now has some delay, even the naturally aspirated ones, driven any of the NA V8s lately?

[RandyB]

I would like to see DFI added to the next M3 4.0 V8, hopefully bringing the hp up to 440-450hp. Then, using more lightweight materials, get the weight as close to 3200-3300 lbs as possible without the size of the car growing again.