keep the M3 or get a Boss Mustang?

[rai]

I know there is another thread concerning the new Boss Mustang. To be honest a year ago, the idea would never have crossed my mind to trade the M3 for a Mustang. I could have posted in the other thread but I didn't want to hijack or have the question get lost if people are not checking that one.

I have one of the first DCT M3 coupes that was sold in the US. I got mine in July 08. I am very happy with it.

IMO the M3 is all around great. Great comfort (for me as I was driving a S2000), great performance, great usefullness (rear seats and trunk), good looking etc..

I love the DCT a lot, but I find myself in auto-mode most of the time and sometimes feel bored not shifting.

I love the performance and sure handling of the M3. It's safe and secure but has a little danger around the edge.

I do not dislike my M3 at all. However it seems a little tame now that I have gotten used to it.

I am either going to keep the M3 for another 4-5 years, or, trade the M3 in for a Mustang Boss 302. (at this time that is my decision tree). I do not want to pay more on top of what I already paid such as to get a Cayman S or a Vette (or such), just thinking a new Boss would cost near what my trade or sale of the 3-year old M3 is worth.

It seems it would be a lateral move on price (as the M3 should be worth ~$40K-$44K for a trade as it has most of the options).

I love the M3 8000+ redline. I don't think the performance of the M3 is bad at all, but guess the Boss 305 would take it up a notch. Like if the M3 is 8/10 for performance the Boss would be 9/10.

The Boss would be something different, and has a ton of Tq. I have never had a car with that kind of TQ.

While I love the DCT in the M3 and glad I got it, I also miss hi-performance MT car. I miss the ability to interact with the road/wheels/clutch the way I could with my S2000.

My main question is... How big of a step down would it be from the M3 to the Mustang. I am sure the Mustang is lower quality feel, just as going from my S2000 Honda to the M3 was a big step, I wonder if going to a Mustang would be a serious step back, in ride quality and overall fit and quality.

Back around 2004, I was considering a Corvette Z06, and loved the performance out of the box, I just could not get over the cheapness of the interior and the truck-ish steering wheel and some parts that was just looked like it came from a Geo Metro bin. At that time, to me it I loved the performance of the Vette, but the interior made me want to puke.

have any of you gone from M3 to Mustang and if so what do you think?

I am talking about the current gen Mustang with the 6-speed and the 400+ hp engine that is on par with the M3 power, the next Boss should leave the M3 in the dust in some regards, such as raw power and is more visually loud which I wouldn't mind either.

At this time, I am either thinking of getting a mod or something like new wheels on the M3 to make it feel fresh or waiting for the spring/summer and getting a Boss. Would like to hear what other M3 ownere think about that.

thanks for reading.

[Kyoshi71]

Me personally....I think the Mustang is a great car and the Boss is pretty sick. Also, it's pretty obvious that Ford is getting, or has gotten, their act together. However, I just couldnt see myself ever buying one. Although I have never driven a 2012 Boss, I have driven a few Mustangs and must say, that cheepie Detroit feel does still exist.

[rai]

I have not driven a new Mustang, I don't like to test drive a lot since it leads to switching cars. I prefer to keep my losses to a minimum by keeping my cars longer.

Last Mustang I was in, was a previous gen, I guess it was around 2003-4 and it was really a bad overall car. I mean the headrests were around my shoulder level and it felt not much different than my wife's 1997 Escort.

I would like to give a new Mustang a try this spring just to see what it feels like. I do not have high hopes, but on paper the Boss especially (444 hp, lower gearing, suspension upgrades etc.. has the right moves).

[Nautik]

I think it will really end up coming down to how much are you willing to compromise luxury for a car that was built primarily for performance and a track car feel. I'm in the same boat right now (get E92 M3 or Boss).

Some people will say it is still just a Mustang but when you drown them out with that legendary exhaust I don't think it will matter.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by Nautik

Some people will say it is still just a Mustang but when you drown them out with that legendary exhaust I don't think it will matter.

What "legendary exhaust"?

Mustangs come with Eisenmanns now?

[rai]

Some of what I hope to get back is a hard edge character.

I was in a S2000 and it was too small (for me to fit) but also very spartain. I may have gone too far in the other direction with the M3. Don't get me wrong, I believe it's the best (or one of the best) all around cars for the road. However, if I had a wishlist, it would be for more firm, or more kickback on the tranny.

I would like to get back some of the raw edge feel, less isolated character of a car.

For example, I went on a exotic car event where got to drive the Aston Martin Vantage V8, Ferrari F430, Lambo Gallardo and Porsche 911 GT3.

While they all had good points the GT3 was the most pure driving car (along with the F430). Some of the other cars were somewhat isolated or refined to the point of boring.

[Grail05]

to be honest Boss Mustang is not so bad but yea it will be going from honda to hyundai..

dont get me wrong i like the boss but its just no where close to M3

THOUGHT ID POST SOME PICS OF THE 2...





HERE IS A MODDED

[templarklimek]

The Gt, Boss, and GT500 are all fantastic performance cars. But yes, you will give up the higher quality build of the M3. Oddly, the rest of ford's lineup's interiors IMHO are higher quality and nice looking. But the "retro" style on the Mustang interior doesnt do it for me. BUT that awesome engine does.

Aren't the Boss 302's hard to get? Dealer rape. To the point where a GT500 might be a better buy? 550hp, ouch.

My M3 is a stick, perhaps that is a bigger issue for you in general. I also find the manual more engaging and fun.

I saw a black Mustang GT 5.0L the other day, looked really good. Lets us know. Take a look at GT500 though, what a monster.

[SunnyD]

Sure fit/finish and refinement won't be up to par compared to an m3, but for a track-focused car, who wants refinement anyway?

[alms211]

Originally Posted by Nautik

I think it will really end up coming down to how much are you willing to compromise luxury for a car that was built primarily for performance and a track car feel. I'm in the same boat right now (get E92 M3 or Boss).

Some people will say it is still just a Mustang but when you drown them out with that legendary exhaust I don't think it will matter.

^^^^^this

Pay no attention to the "it's still just a Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc." bullshit that you no doubtedly will hear. The Porsche guys do it to the BMW, Benz guys and the Ferrari/Lambo guys do it to the Porsche guys. I've seen and heard it all.

Drive it and come to YOUR OWN conclusions. In the meantime, seek out "Foosh" on this forum. He had a E93M and sold it and bought a Mustang GT500 (not a Boss, I know). He has owned many other cars including Vettes, etc. and will give you an honest opinon.

I'm in the same boat right now as well. However I'm looking at a slightly used ('09) E92M3 or new Vette Grand Sport. If the Vette had the interior quality of the M3, the deal would be done already. I'm still leaning primarily towards getting the Vette as this will be my weekend car and I think that I'm willing to give up more of the "luxury" of the M3 for the exterior styling and purpose built sports car nature of the Vette.

[N8dawg]

Wait for the 2014 Mustang GT, guarantee it will have the same or better powertrain as the 2012 BOSS with better looks and yet an even more improved interior.

[Crazy Bimmer]

I like having the refinement that the M3 offers. After all, I spend more time in a daily commute than the track? I want to be comfy.

Thats the reason I wouldnt go with a 302. Now if it was a weekend toy then that be a different story.

[rai]

Originally Posted by templarklimek

Aren't the Boss 302's hard to get? Dealer rape. To the point where a GT500 might be a better buy? 550hp, ouch.

I would not want to pay extra for a Boss, part of the equation for me is the value price/performance and if I could just about trade in my M3 for close to the same price.

I don't want anything to do with mark-ups or dealer adjustments.

I was considering the GTR back in 08 but no dealer would take less than $90K.

I am not sure if the Boss wil be a limited edition or more of a Z06 type with the limit only due to how many they can sell.

I am not interested in the GT500 either, I value light weight and NA engines more than high power/TQ. I drove a McLaren SLR which is a beast engine bar few. And it was really a panic just to try to keep the power under control, I didn't like it one bit.

[SnakeKiller]

Originally Posted by rai

I would not want to pay extra for a Boss, part of the equation for me is the value price/performance and if I could just about trade in my M3 for close to the same price.

I don't want anything to do with mark-ups or dealer adjustments.

I was considering the GTR back in 08 but no dealer would take less than $90K.

I am not sure if the Boss wil be a limited edition or more of a Z06 type with the limit only due to how many they can sell.

I am not interested in the GT500 either, I value light weight and NA engines more than high power/TQ. I drove a McLaren SLR which is a beast engine bar few. And it was really a panic just to try to keep the power under control, I didn't like it one bit.

their will be around 4000 cars made a year, with only a 2 year production run.(Change may be present with demand)
1000 will be LS/R models.

2012=1969 colors and graphics
2013=1970 colors and graphics

it will not be a huge step-back, build quality and feel is good but not great as the m3.

[rai]

Originally Posted by SnakeKiller

their will be around 4000 cars made a year, with only a 2 year production run.(Change may be present with demand)
1000 will be LS/R models.

2012=1969 colors and graphics
2013=1970 colors and graphics

it will not be a huge step-back, build quality and feel is good but not great as the m3.

that sounds like a small number, something like one car per dealership. Sure to be a mark-up

[Cabinetman]

I currently have a 2011 Mustang GT500 and one of my previous cars was a 2010 E90 M3 DCT. If I were to have to chose today between the Mustang and a M3 I would take the BMW. There are a few reasons for this and some are specific to the GT500 and may not be an issue with the Boss.

First, I miss traction. This may not be such and issue with the Boss, but in the Shelby traction off the line isn't good. There is way too much low end torque for the 285 Goodyears to handle. 550hp/510 ft lbs of torque might look good on paper, however if you can't get it to the ground it is pretty pointless.

Next, the shifter isn't that great in my Mustang. Again, this might be a Shelby thing and not be an issue in the Boss at all. In my car I having grinding issues shifting into second if I try to do it quickly. At high RPM I have even been totally locked out of second and had to wait for the revs to drop before I could complete the shift. Add in the notchy feel and the shifter just doesn't impress me.

I also don't find the interior of my Mustang to be close to the same level of the BMW. It is definitely a step up over other Mustangs, but still not the best. The leather doesn't appear to be of the best quality and there is still a lot of hard plastic inside. The gauge layout makes it hard to read the speedometer and there is no digital speed display you can select like in the M3. Sync is okay, but I prefer the latest generation of iDrive.

Finally, the driving experience is completely different in the Mustang and i find it less to my liking. The Mustang is a big car and never seems to lose that feel when driving. Also, there is less feedback through all the controls which makes me less confident when pushing the car hard on the street. You end up steering more with the throttle which I'm not very adept at.

With all that said, you should really drive one yourself and draw your own conclusions. The Mustang is definitely a lot of car for the money. Also, the Boss may address all of my concerns except for the interior which really isn't that bad unless you start comparing it to cars like the M3.

[Nautik]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

What "legendary exhaust"?

Mustangs come with Eisenmanns now?

Yes, you are correct Maybe I should have gone with "legendary engine note"? Either way, the firing order they use for the V8s in their mustangs can make for some great sound!

[adc]

If you want a rawer car but are otherwise satisfied with your M3, then modify your M3. Throw in a suspension and a loud exhaust and you'll get all the thrills without sacrificing the rest of the package.

The Mustang will not feel as raw & mechanically connected as say, a Porsche - what I'm saying is that it may not offer the pure raw thrills you think it does. (I could be wrong).

[rai]

Originally Posted by adc

If you want a rawer car but are otherwise satisfied with your M3, then modify your M3. Throw in a suspension and a loud exhaust and you'll get all the thrills without sacrificing the rest of the package.

The Mustang will not feel as raw & mechanically connected as say, a Porsche - what I'm saying is that it may not offer the pure raw thrills you think it does. (I could be wrong).

this is what I could do. I was trying to not throw a lot of money away which you can do with going mod happy. I am going to get some spacers and new wheels, new tires needed soon. It's serious money with that without even going into exhaust, suspension mods...

I am very happy with the M3 overall. Probably I should get some performance driving instruction.

[adc]

Originally Posted by rai

this is what I could do. I was trying to not throw a lot of money away which you can do with going mod happy. I am going to get some spacers and new wheels, new tires needed soon. It's serious money with that without even going into exhaust, suspension mods...

I am very happy with the M3 overall. Probably I should get some performance driving instruction.

Great idea, the driving school. There are numerous events happening throughout the year at Summit Point, about 1.5 hrs away from DC. If you would like to go to one of them keep in touch, I'll try to organize a group once or twice this year.


But other than that, wheels and spacers will do absolutely nothing for your driving experience (I've been there), unless you are prepared to pay $$$ for 18lbs wheels. And even then, the difference will be marginal to a great many drivers.

Add a loud muffler to the M and the driving experience will instantly become 10% rawer. I'm absolutely serious.

[rai]

Originally Posted by adc

Great idea, the driving school. There are numerous events happening throughout the year at Summit Point, about 1.5 hrs away from DC. If you would like to go to one of them keep in touch, I'll try to organize a group once or twice this year.


But other than that, wheels and spacers will do absolutely nothing for your driving experience (I've been there), unless you are prepared to pay $$$ for 18lbs wheels. And even then, the difference will be marginal to a great many drivers.

Add a loud muffler to the M and the driving experience will instantly become 10% rawer. I'm absolutely serious.

thanks, I had thought about Summit Point, I live 40 minutes away. How does car insurance work when on a track?

How does an exhaust effect the smog test?

I know the spacers and wheels would just be for looks, I am not satisfied with the way the wheels fill up the wheel well (have the stock 18") wheels, and a poor looking set of winter wheels. I was thinking to get some nicer wheels and retire my stock wheels for winter.

[adc]

Originally Posted by rai

thanks, I had thought about Summit Point, I live 40 minutes away. How does car insurance work when on a track?

Depends on your insurance I'd guess - some have specific clauses that prevent coverage on track, some don't. it's an area of some debate as I understand it - driving schools are not technically racing as there is no wheel-to-wheel contest or any form of timing. But some insurance companies despite not having special exclusions, definitely like to play hard to get.

If this is a big concern, there are track-only special insurances, I think they run about $200-400 per weekend depending on the amount you want covered.

It's not a big concern for me, I've been to many events and felt pretty safe. I also took many rookies out for their first taste but set the right mindset and expectations for them - and everybody had a tremendous time. If you'd like, we can take this discussion off-forum and I can provide you with as much information as you'd like.

How does an exhaust effect the smog test?

The rear section (mufflers) don't affect it in any way, and can be as loud as you want.

I know the spacers and wheels would just be for looks, I am not satisfied with the way the wheels fill up the wheel well (have the stock 18") wheels, and a poor looking set of winter wheels. I was thinking to get some nicer wheels and retire my stock wheels for winter.

I've tried spacers on the stock 18" rims and had mixed results. I found nice looks and extra grip, but less progression. And a surprising amount of extra vibrations through the chassis when running certain potholes.

If you want to go this way, go for the correct offset wheels so you don't need spacers - just my advice.