Tough Choices

[MRAT3D]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

that statement alone is enough to draw conclusions... work all summer? as opposed to what? not work? i'm willing to bet the op is about 19 or 20 and wants to spend 99% of his money on a car he can't afford to maintain when the first check engine light hits.

You're not wrong on that. I am currently in college and I have a rather good-paying job during the school year, but I'm planning to have around 25k put away specifically for the car after working ~50 hours a week for 16 weeks this summer. I think that 90% of repairs that I "can't afford" will be things that I have both the ability and tools to fix myself, and the parts themselves I will be able to afford.

[m3jala]

At that budget, you should go for the E46 m3. Those cars are a dream and in no way less than the e9x series in my opinion. Different, weaker engine of course due to the older tech but an amazing piece of technology for the era in my view.

If you are ok with that age range, take a look at the Audi b6 rs4 as well. Another dream car of mine I'd personally love to own one day. All of these options require maintenance, elbow grease, upkeep and have that one special flaw everyone is paranoid about but you know all this already.

If you do get the e46 I'd suggest a carbon fiber hood and trunk on an otherwise dark color. I love that look.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by MRAT3D

You're not wrong on that. I am currently in college and I have a rather good-paying job during the school year, but I'm planning to have around 25k put away specifically for the car after working ~50 hours a week for 16 weeks this summer. I think that 90% of repairs that I "can't afford" will be things that I have both the ability and tools to fix myself, and the parts themselves I will be able to afford.

The financial part of me is screaming- don't do it! Save your money. I get it, I was 19 and blowing money on stupid things- that's why I have this perspective now.

So, you can swap throttle actuators in the middle of your school week and be without a car? Spark plugs every 37k? You have a place to store jack stands or ramps for your oil changes?
What about your rake vacuum booster taking a dump? Drive around in limp mode until the weekend?
These cars are incredibly reliable, but things happen. And at your price point, you're looking at high mileage examples.

[MRAT3D]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

The financial part of me is screaming- don't do it! Save your money. I get it, I was 19 and blowing money on stupid things- that's why I have this perspective now.

So, you can swap throttle actuators in the middle of your school week and be without a car? Spark plugs every 37k? You have a place to store jack stands or ramps for your oil changes?
What about your rake vacuum booster taking a dump? Drive around in limp mode until the weekend?
These cars are incredibly reliable, but things happen. And at your price point, you're looking at high mileage examples.

I definitely appreciate the warnings. I will be living on campus for the next couple years, and most of my friends have cars here, so being without a car for a couple days or even weeks isn't a problem for me. In terms of availability of tools, I have a good friend with a shop not far away that will certainly let me use his lift and tools for the jobs that require them.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Having just sold mine, I can tell you that examples below 25k are really pushing the limits. I personally wouldn't do it, but I'm sure you don't care about what I think, so here's what I'd do:

the car you buy MUST have had bearings done
It MUST have full records of work done
YOU must get a PPI on each you're interested it.

That will give you a fighting chance with maintainence costs down the road. Still, if you're driving around in the car and your butt is tightened up because you know the next thing that breaks will also break your wallet, well, that makes owning the car not fun.

[MRAT3D]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Having just sold mine, I can tell you that examples below 25k are really pushing the limits. I personally wouldn't do it, but I'm sure you don't care about what I think, so here's what I'd do:

the car you buy MUST have had bearings done
It MUST have full records of work done
YOU must get a PPI on each you're interested it.

That will give you a fighting chance with maintainence costs down the road. Still, if you're driving around in the car and your butt is tightened up because you know the next thing that breaks will also break your wallet, well, that makes owning the car not fun.

I agree with the last two of your points, but the rod bearings? I feel like as long as I'm sending samples to Blackstone after each oil change, I should be fine on original rod bearings (that is obviously if the reports come back with good results).

[roastbeef]

Black stone reports have been proven to be worthless. There have been several stories of "normal" black stone reports and the bearings going within a couple thousand miles.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by MRAT3D

I agree with the last two of your points, but the rod bearings? I feel like as long as I'm sending samples to Blackstone after each oil change, I should be fine on original rod bearings (that is obviously if the reports come back with good results).

If you happen to get an LCI model, oil tests are useless, since the bearings don't have copper in them, you won't be able to tell wear.

Even a clean report doesn't mean you're in the clear. And you might be able to talk to the current owner of the car, but what about those before? How did they treat it? Did they warm it up? So many variables here.

You could drive it and nothing could break, or you could spend 6k in a year. Given your price point, I'd lean more toward the latter. Just be prepared, that's all we're all saying.

[cjm41]

Originally Posted by MRAT3D

I feel like as long as I'm sending samples to Blackstone after each oil change, I should be fine on original rod bearings (that is obviously if the reports come back with good results).

You've got so much to learn, young grasshopper.

[LuckiSevens]

Just buy it!!!

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by cjm41

You've got so much to learn, young grasshopper.

Yeeeeeeah OP has a LOT of homework to do here...

[MightyM3]

Horrible idea, invest the money or put it away is my best advice. Soon as you buy the car you won't even have enough to do the minimal. As others have said oil changes are upwards of 200 dollars, tires around 1500 and yes we go through them very quickly... the list goes on and on... it's a great car but every time something goes wrong its usually at least 2k to fix. Mind you insurance is not cheap, just all adds up my friend but if you are daed set power to you!

[MRAT3D]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Black stone reports have been proven to be worthless. There have been several stories of "normal" black stone reports and the bearings going within a couple thousand miles.

Would several reports of them turning out to be wrong outweigh the many more that have gone 100k+ miles without an issue + clean reports? The way I see how the actual reports work makes complete sense to me and I wouldn't call them "worthless", but then again I'm relatively new around here, so what do I know?

[roastbeef]

I've been around here for a minute. I decided the $2,300 was a better investment than $15k for a new motor. I deemed the reports to be nonsense for the purposes of determining bearing wear.

[MRAT3D]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

I've been around here for a minute. I decided the $2,300 was a better investment than $15k for a new motor. I deemed the reports to be nonsense for the purposes of determining bearing wear.

Well if all works out, hopefully I will be able to buy a lower mileage example for trade price from a dealership that I have a great relationship with, and I will save enough money from that deal to put towards maintenance BEFORE mods. I wasn't really thinking of any major mods at all, the only thing that I can think of doing to the car within the first year is an OEM exhaust mod, which I could do myself at my friend's shop for free.

I agree that $2,300 in preventative maintenance is better than $15k after the fact, but I still see that as a lot to spend based on mostly anecdotal statistics. I'm sure that you at least somewhat understand where I'm coming from, and I certainly understand and appreciate your experience-based advice.

[roastbeef]

Yea, I get it. I have a detailed thread on my rod bearing replacement and maintenance habits for the car if you care to read it.

I track the car and can't have it blow up 400 miles north while I'm at laguna seca with the wife and dog... plus I plan on keeping the car forever, so it was a no brainer.

[SAMM3Y]

Get a cheap pick up truck and a street bike.. perfect for college.

[wyatth]

These cars are too new to have bottomed out in value, as much as we want to think that. At least E92/93s.
Every gen M3 offers something unique.
And I didn’t say low mile top spec cars would be low $20Ks, just clean sorted out cars. It’ll happen. And others with more wear and tear will be in the teens, just as E46s got to the low-mid teen range as well while clean examples hover around $18K.

[BimmerRookie]

Don't push your dream. It's not worth it. Wait to get a lower mileage example. Simple.

IF 20-21k is all ya got, you're not gonna have anything saved up for maintenance. You keep saying that you've got a friend with a shop...labor isn't the big ticket. Parts are simply just expensive! Look the ///M-Tax buddy...

Also, you came to the best place to ask for questions, and you've got some serious M-veterans spanning multiple generations giving you some solid advice. Be mature enough to put your emotions aside and really take it in. We (can I say we, I'm only the BimmerRookie...) know what we're talking about. We've experienced it all either through our own experiences or the experiences of our fellow forum members.

Be smart my man.

[DRLane]

These cars aren't going anywhere, don't do it -

Not only is this impractical and financially irresponsible for a college student, but also why rush buying a dream vehicle... I get the desire and the ability to rationalize but I think you're setting yourself poorly.

Thoughts to consider outside of financial, obviously take it or leave.

- You're setting the tone of what's acceptable from a experience standpoint way too high. It will be hard to go backwards... Your economic position let alone the economy is not guaranteed regardless of degree, school, or industry. Keep your expectations/ life requirements low!!!
- I think it reflects poorly on young people driving "glamorous" vehicles. Sure you bought it yourself, it's only ~$20k, one could spend more on a civic, yada yada. But the assumption will be the inverse and make you appear entitled. Driving to jobs or interacting with faculty in this vehicle won't win you any favors. I'm not suggesting it's fair. But it's something more people will Inherently pickup on. I think it puts a target on your back...
- Poor decisions will likely be made around operating the car leading to an accident. You may be the most mature young man alive but there will be lapses in judgement and peer pressure will take its effect. The brain and judgement is still developing. Don't trust yourself here.

Have fun and be a regular college student. Try to enjoy life as it's "intended" at your age. Don't rush life, you'll get there.

[MrGatsby]

Originally Posted by MRAT3D

You're not wrong on that. I am currently in college and I have a rather good-paying job during the school year, but I'm planning to have around 25k put away specifically for the car after working ~50 hours a week for 16 weeks this summer. I think that 90% of repairs that I "can't afford" will be things that I have both the ability and tools to fix myself, and the parts themselves I will be able to afford.

$25,000 at 50 hours per week for 16 weeks equals out to roughly $30/hr. If you were to work full time -- 40 hours a week for 50 weeks, you would be making roughly $60,000 a year. I would strongly suggest not to get yourself into a depreciating asset, equal to half yearly income, if you can only work less then half the year.

I feel a lot older than I am as I type this out. I was you just a few years ago. I understand the draw towards these incredible sports cars, and I succumbed to it.

When I was 16, I started a mobile car detailing company with some of my buddies. What started as a small side gig, turned into a profitable business. At 17, I was making around $2k per month profit (after all expenses) with a team doing most of the work. At my age, I was living like a king. I managed to save a majority of the money simply because I had my dream car in mind.

Before I went off to college, I purchased a 400 horsepower supercharged Jaguar. I thought I deserved this beast after the amount of work I had put in. I spent 90% of my savings to buy this vehicle and took it with me to school. It started as a great decision -- girls we're all over it, guys thought it was cool. This faded rather quickly. I soon realized the ONLY time I would drive it was to off campus parties; everyone wanted to ride in the Jag. With my class schedule and sports, there was just no reason to leave campus except parties or grocery runs. 90% of the time the Jag just sat looking pretty. After my second year at school, I dropped out to pursue an opportunity in Florida, and I sold the car for a major loss. Looking back, I wish I had money in the bank during college, and let someone else be the designated driver.

You'll want to be completely worry free in college. If you have this expensive asset with you, you'll worry that it'll be messed with, you'll worry that drunk kids will hit it if you take it to parties, you'll realize it's fun to show up to the party in an M3, but remaining sober throughout sucks. Girl's will talk to you but for the wrong reasons. It will cause more headaches then enjoyment.

You have your whole life ahead of you to buy these fantastic machines and enjoy them thoroughly. I am not trying to tell you what to do, but hopefully you can learn from my mistakes. Just think it through before making any decisions.

[SYT_Shadow]

This has been beat to death by the previous posters but here's some advice

Forget about the E60. If you were looking at a 40k E60 then maybe, maybe you'd be able to afford it.
Forget about the E46. It is significantly more expensive to maintain than the E9X generation. SMG is a whole avenue of new issues and then you have to add valve adjustments, subframe BS and vanos crap to the mix.

Even for the E9X... just regular wear and tear, tires, gas, insurance... at least the E9X is quite reliable!

People's word may or may not count much for you but if you go to E46F you'll see tons of my DIYs... I've done a massive amount of car work on the E46 and E9X generation M3


This may be more relatable to you:
When I was around 20, my brother and I wanted a car. Didn't really need one but really wanted one. We were looking at a new Ford Fiesta ST (European model not sold here back in the good old days) and then for a similar price started looking at 'real cars'.
We ended up buying a 330Ci with 50k miles.
It is hard to describe in a post the financial hardship we went through to hold on to that car. I could literally own a new Ferrari now and it would be a smaller portion of my income than that was.
Tires, light mods, proper maintenance... it all adds up. There were months when we could not use the car because we couldn't fuel it. There were months we couldn't use it because we had paid the quarterly insurance.
I would almost rather to burn in hell than buy shitty tires or lapse on maintenance, so even a 330 is expensive!
It's been like 15 years since then and I don't even live in Europe but I still have the 330Ci there for when I visit.

Personally I would do it again, it teaches you the true cost of your dreams and makes you appreciate what you have instead of wish for every single new car under the sun. Then again, I am not a typical human... I am happy with what I have when it comes to cars. I do not wish for GT3s or McLarens or Lambos or Ferraris...

My reco:
If you have $20k buy a 328i/128i manual from the E9X generation and you'll find that even that is tough to maintain properly.

Another option is to buy a 2015 Mini Cooper S with a manual. Tons available around $18k. Not Right Wheel Drive of course but still quite entertaining and for 18k you get one that's loaded and has 25k miles so it doesn't need suspension, tires, brakes, etc etc.
I have a X5, E92M and E90M track car and bought the MCS and really enjoy driving it.

Additional reco:
Ignore the people saying 'invest it'. There are the ones I instruct at PCA track days which are seven thousand years old and have finally allowed themselves to buy a Cayman S. To hell with that! Live your dreams, just live a dream you can afford a bit more