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      10-02-2017, 05:34 PM   #111
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by are0lies View Post
No need to apologize. Hell, you merely stated your opinion, and you know that sayin about opinions. Where it becomes wrong is when insults come into play (not necessarily you), because then that insult merely states that I no longer have a rational argument to counter you, and I need to drag you down so that I can feel smarter. I may not like your opinion, but you have a legitimate right to it. Once again, don't apologize for what you believe in, just justify a little clearer. You're good. And it's always great to hear outside views of how we crazy Americans conduct business, because, even I, often do not understand it.
Honestly, i stand my ground when the issue is one i need to defend, but in this, i have to admit my errors. On the politics side one poster mentioned Isis connection, i googled, and all the sources shown then were bad. My intention was good, i wanted to point out how outlets uses horrible things against us.

If we could in the politics thread have a reasonable talk about guns, that would be epic, but it should be done at a time when it is not as red hot topic as it is now.
That's why I like you, NO, respect you Anna, you tell it like you see it, you back it up but you are also humble enough to know that you do not know everything and are willing to see all sides.

I have said this before and I really am not expecting anyone to read this far down as I think sometimes we all just want to spout about instead of reading what others have to say, but this planet we live on has never been experienced before, it's a learning process. We have nothing to go by except for things that have happened a few years ago. Man/woman has never done any of this before and it's the first time it has ever been the year 2017 with the technology that we have. We may never get it right, I don't pretend to think that man/woman ever will. And that is the saddest truth of all.
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      10-02-2017, 05:50 PM   #112
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I really hate the mainstream media. They are such a problem, in more ways than just this.

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      10-02-2017, 06:11 PM   #113
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Strange turn here.
Not a fan of Kristy Alley anymore.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...-shooters.html
Go watch the Leah Rimini show on A&E. Those people are nuts!!!
Fiancť really loves it. She makes me watch it with her. Fuckers are crazy!
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      10-02-2017, 07:06 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by are0lies View Post
No need to apologize. Hell, you merely stated your opinion, and you know that sayin about opinions. Where it becomes wrong is when insults come into play (not necessarily you), because then that insult merely states that I no longer have a rational argument to counter you, and I need to drag you down so that I can feel smarter. I may not like your opinion, but you have a legitimate right to it. Once again, don't apologize for what you believe in, just justify a little clearer. You're good. And it's always great to hear outside views of how we crazy Americans conduct business, because, even I, often do not understand it.
Yep! What he said.
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      10-02-2017, 07:15 PM   #115
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This is not a thread for your comedy. To your other comment: worry about your ISIS issues in your country. Did you forget the mass shooting at the Ariana Grande concert? This could happen anywhere.
Obviously the comedy thought must have run through YOUR mind with a pathetic quote like that, how dare you think I was trying to make fun, its people like you who just love the attention trying to belittle other members, take a chill pill & relax dude
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      10-02-2017, 07:57 PM   #116
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This is not a thread for your comedy. To your other comment: worry about your ISIS issues in your country. Did you forget the mass shooting at the Ariana Grande concert? This could happen anywhere.
The Ariana Grande incident was a bombing, not a mass shooting.
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      10-02-2017, 10:00 PM   #117
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What makes me go wtf in this situation is that the second the rounds made contact everybody is immediately asking what his political motivation was. Was he antifa, was he ISIS, was he a Nazi; how about he was a fucking psychopath who decided to let the killer in him out. You cannot stop people who are simply driven to kill. These types of people will always exist and that is something we have to factor is as humans. There will always be people who will go out and do good and not give a damn about recognition. As there will always be people who will go out and do vile shit like this. Unfortunately much like the ying and yang both of these parts are in our nature. There is no law that you can pass that will ever prevent this.
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      10-02-2017, 10:22 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
What makes me go wtf in this situation is that the second the rounds made contact everybody is immediately asking what his political motivation was. Was he antifa, was he ISIS, was he a Nazi; how about he was a fucking psychopath who decided to let the killer in him out. You cannot stop people who are simply driven to kill. These types of people will always exist and that is something we have to factor is as humans. There will always be people who will go out and do good and not give a damn about recognition. As there will always be people who will go out and do vile shit like this. Unfortunately much like the ying and yang both of these parts are in our nature. There is no law that you can pass that will ever prevent this.
Truth! Great post.
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      10-03-2017, 03:42 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
What makes me go wtf in this situation is that the second the rounds made contact everybody is immediately asking what his political motivation was. Was he antifa, was he ISIS, was he a Nazi; how about he was a fucking psychopath who decided to let the killer in him out. You cannot stop people who are simply driven to kill. These types of people will always exist and that is something we have to factor is as humans. There will always be people who will go out and do good and not give a damn about recognition. As there will always be people who will go out and do vile shit like this. Unfortunately much like the ying and yang both of these parts are in our nature. There is no law that you can pass that will ever prevent this.
I think everyone just wants to know "why"

Certain news outlets seem to have initially ran with speculative theories of what may be the reasoning behind his actions rather than waiting for the facts.

As for laws stopping this kind of terrible event happening, no, unfortunately these things will never be completely eradicated...But they can be reduced somewhat by making it tougher to get hold of these types of firearms, and firearms in general.

I really hope something changes THIS time, but I fear nothing will...
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      10-03-2017, 07:40 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman View Post
I think everyone just wants to know "why"

Certain news outlets seem to have initially ran with speculative theories of what may be the reasoning behind his actions rather than waiting for the facts.

As for laws stopping this kind of terrible event happening, no, unfortunately these things will never be completely eradicated...But they can be reduced somewhat by making it tougher to get hold of these types of firearms, and firearms in general.

I really hope something changes THIS time, but I fear nothing will...
Regardless of gun laws whether they get banned or not or make it strict, they can be easily attain thru black market. This lunatic only motive was to kill innocent people at a concert. His father was bank robber and on FBI most wanted list.
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      10-03-2017, 08:54 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
Collective Rights Theory
Is nonsense, and the Supreme Court agrees. (See: District of Columbia v. Heller, 2008)

Or are you suggesting that it's ok for the Executive Branch to circumvent the Judicial Branch as long as it's a topic you approve of?
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      10-03-2017, 09:23 AM   #122
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What was it then? Sounds like full auto to me. I don't see how someone's trigger finger is that fast with the staccato bursts I heard...just doesn't sound semi-auto.

The news is claim there were full automatic weapons, however, as one gun expect said, it is extremely unlikely he had a full automatic weapon, reason being manufacturing of them were outlawed in 1986, and only guns made prior to 1986 would be available to purchase by someone with a class 3 licenses which there are a limited number of those people and those people would be jeopardize their license to sell one to this guy also there are only ~400K of automatic weapon available and they are all registered with the Feds, and to buy one would cost 10's of thousands.

I also heard the news claims FBI said he had modified the guns he had to make them fully automatic. Again and another expert weight in and said, in fact two of the now 23 guns he had in the room appeared to be modified with a bump stock which is not a mod to make it fully automatic, it actual manually pulls the trigger each time the gun recoils so it does not require someone to hold the trigger. This is what I believe you can hear in some of the video, you can here some pretty rapid fire and this would do that.

The news in this country can not get it straight, first there were 8 guns, then 12 then 16 and they now settle on 23 at the hotel. The police have not made any official statement so the media is just making this stuff up.


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      10-03-2017, 09:27 AM   #123
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I've got my money on some sort of slide-fire stock.
I think you won that bet.
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      10-03-2017, 09:47 AM   #124
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How did it lead to less people getting help for mental illnesses? Genuine question; I'm not that familiar with Obama's resolution. All I know is that we've been talking for a long time that mentally ill people should not be getting guns. That the problem wasn't the guns but the people. So Obama tried to implement a stopgap measure (resolution, as opposed to legislation) to tie mental health history to gun purchases. Was it perfect? No. Was it overbroad? Probably. But it was better than nothing, as a temporary measure.

Trump erased it, but never pushed for something better conceived. He's going to face this question now (as well as his pro-NRA stance during his campaign), which is going to temporarily push his tax reform bill to back-burner.
First I am not advocating that people with mental illness be locked away, however, this issue predated Obama. We can not pin this issue on him or anyone in recent history except for the fact no one want to address the issue even when we had a number of mentally disturb individual take lots of people lives.

If you go back 50 yrs people with these kinds of problems where Dr's could not agree on whether the person would hurt themselves or other, were put into mental hospitals, those facility for lots of reason have been shut down, and we have a group of people in this country who think it is bad to have these people under permanent care, they feel it is better the mentally ill walk among us and have free access to the same things everyone else has even though no one can say they can handle the responsibilities. These are the same people who will tell you Dr's is not allow to tell authorities you have mental defect, their person privacy is more important than your life.

The government has dump these people back on society and their families who either do not want to deal with them or are unable to deal with them.

I believe we will continue to see these things happen (current case still unknown if he was crazy) as long as we have people with mental illness issues no getting permanent help.

I will give you a simple example. My dad is 87, was diagnose with Alzheimer, the Dr said now that he was diagnose they are required by law to report him to the State to have his driver license revoked which the state did in 10 days. The Dr ask us if there were guns in the house, which there were, and he suggest they be removed, and let it at that. We did remove the guns since I could not live with myself if something happen. We did the responsible thing, but many people do not.

One other related point, the people running around with the anti-gun agenda has driven the manufacturing and sales of these weapons to the all time highs, in the last year with the current atmosphere, gun production and sales are down 60% why people are not concern about their rights being taken away. The anti-gun folks have made the entire situation worse making it even easy for people to get guns since there are so many available.

Last edited by Maestro; 10-03-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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      10-03-2017, 10:12 AM   #125
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The older I get the more I realize that most people have either prescription and or illegal drug dependency, alcohol abuse or just batshit crazy. This shooter is any one of us. We recently started expanding our circle and the wife decided we should pull back as we couldn't believe what 40 year old adults with small children are still doing. Invites for sleepovers for the kids from parents who are planning on spending their time drinking watching rated R movies while our 10 year old is in their home. Not on my watch.
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      10-03-2017, 10:18 AM   #126
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Yep concur
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      10-03-2017, 10:39 AM   #127
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definitely sounded like rapid fire per recording that have been posted on certain sites from people that were there. 23 firearms? every time he ran out of ammo he picked up another?
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      10-03-2017, 10:50 AM   #128
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I bet bump stocks will be banned after this.
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      10-03-2017, 10:53 AM   #129
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Fine with me.
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      10-03-2017, 10:53 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
First I am not advocating that people with mental illness be locked away, however, this issue predated Obama. We can not pin this issue on him or anyone in recent history except for the fact no one want to address the issue even when we had a number of mentally disturb individual take lots of people lives.

If you go back 50 yrs people which these kind of problems where Dr's could not agree on whether the person would hurt themselves or other, were put into mental hospitals, those facility for lots of reason have been shut down, and we have group of people in this country who think it is bad to have these people under permanent care, they feel it is better that the mentally ill walk among us and have free access to the same things everyone else has even though no one can say they can handle the responsibilities.

The government has dump these people back on society and their families who either do not want to deal with them or are unable to deal with them.

I believe we will continue to see these things happen (current case still unknown if he was crazy) as long as we have people with mental illness issues no getting permanent help.

One other related point, the people running around with the anti-gun agenda has drive the manufacturing and sales of these weapons to the all time highs, in the last year with the current atmosphere, gun production and sales are down 60% why people are not concern about their rights being taken away. The anti-gun folks have made the entire situation worse making it even easy for people to get guns since there are so many available.
Closure of mental health institutions is not just an American problem, they have been closing them down here in the UK for many years with the buildings & land being sold off to developers for housing.
We now have so called 'care in the community'
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      10-03-2017, 10:54 AM   #131
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Tragedy. All those lives lost. Entire families destroyed with the loss of loved ones. Really stop and think about those that were killed, and the gut wrenching loss felt by their wider families for the rest of their lives.

Brutal, brutal weapons make mass murderers out of individuals. The quicker they shoot, the more deadly they are. As you go down the scale the ability to kill multiples decreases. Thereís just no way you could do that much damage with a bat or a knife. Or a low volume magazine for that matter. Imagine how many guns he would have needed if a six shooter was the only thing you could buy instead of c-mags or however many rounds each gun had.

Itís a fact but how do we turn it around?

Those poor people. Carnage.

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      10-03-2017, 11:01 AM   #132
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I would counter he could have killed more with a hunting rifle and optic actually aiming, rather than a spray and pray method employeed.
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