Do all E9x M3 have rod bearing problems?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

So if there are that many bearing failure, how many people had successfully had their bearings or motor replaced by BMW?

You did not pay attention to the reasonable posts in this thread, there aren't that many failures at all. <1%. Some people are basing their frivolous estimate on visual wear on disassembled bearings = case of failure. Which is wrong. Some people feel better about their own pathological worries if they can pass it on to as many people as possible.
also don't expect to interview a BMW representative on it, there is a corporate gag order in cases like that. You can get that % but no official name behind it for obvious reasons.

[nholmes]

My car is a 100% track only car. It was worth more to me to pay the money in parts and have peace of mind than to flog the car with any doubt in the back of my mind.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by cenix

You truly are the ///M Whisperer... Now you hear voices from the V8? Just kidding!

Indeed I'm the ///M Whisperer , that's what they say ...But only in the US and Canada
Don't remember the day when it started with the name , but after a while I received a PM video from the US to listen to a S65 .

And the guy sounded like this...
Hi mister ///M Whisperer , can you please listen to my S65 because I think it sounds not normal .
And I was like.... ///M what ?

But no worries , I'll take the name as a compliment
Of course only on Bimmerpost .

[RaezerSharp]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1253315

[RaezerSharp]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

32K .
Some stuff about oil...
Last oil change was done last year in November at my BMW/Dealer .
Oil change was done with the new BMW "///M-Twin power turbo" 10W60 made by Shell .

Need to say my S65 runs smoother with the new stuff .
Before I was on the Castrol/Edge , but had some oil consumption when I really pushed it into the high rpm's for several days .
I noticed also that the new Twin oil warms up about 20% faster compared to the Castrol .
I have stored the whole stuff like oil temps and needed time to warm up in my database in combination with the driven speed and outside temps .
Of course all the data comes from the same traject ...or route.
Before I can say something of the oil consumption with the new Twin oil I need to wait when I can push it really hard through the Belgian Ardennes .
I will drive also over "Francorchamps" , just like I did last year in July 2015.

BMW "///M-Twin power turbo" 10W60 made by Shell

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by RaezerSharp

BMW "///M-Twin power turbo" 10W60 made by Shell

Yep , but only time will tell if the new stuff is really better than the good old Castrol .

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Good post. I've often wondered how much lugging the engine affects the bearings. I've noticed if I put it in D the car will be in 6th or even 7th gear by 35 mph and seems to be trying to keep the revs as low as possible for fuel economies sake, but the vibrations seem pretty bad in that low rpm range and the car doesn't seem mechanically happy below 2k rpm....but still wants to spend most of its time there. Those vibrations seem especially bad when the engine is cold which, combined with a thick, cool oil seems like a bad combo.

By the time you can physically sense vibrations from an engine you are lugging it hard. With high revving race engine types, like the S65, you should always stay below 3/4 or even half throttle in the lower RPM range. But if you use your gears well and rev match / heel and toe you can floor it most of the time on a track. On the road you follow a similar style. The lugging issue is with people who got this special engine and never learned rev matching/ heel and toe or don't downshift with dct after breaking, they find themselves at low rpm and then floor it to make up for poor driving. Piston strokes do not happen fast enough and flywheel inertia goes through periodical fluctuations proportional to throttle that acts like sledgehammers blows to rod bearings. This is a kind of bad mechanical resonance. When the engine spins faster there is less time between piston strokes and the flywheel inertia is homogenized, at that point any amount of throttle is fine.

With forced induction, the higher low end torque means that mechanical resonance does not happen as the engine picks up speed, the detrimental resonance is damped. You have to drive those engine differently.

[IIAp3x]

I'm jealous... Since moving to Florida I am 7 hours from the closest mountain range or raceway... I miss the track days and the mountain runs!

[///mawana]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Not to mention, there was a time when it seemed like every week there was a new failure. The failure rate reported on this site seems to be decreasing from the initial reports. Could be a survivorship bias issue that if engine hasn't had problems beyond a certain mileage threshold it is probably ok.

Sadly enough, summer is around the corner! I recall it was the hotter months we saw those failures. Wouldn't surprise me if we witness same.

[ualdrivr]

I just purchased my 2013 e92 M3. I ordered an oil test kit, the kit is free and the test is $28, cheap peace of mind.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[Redd]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

You did not pay attention to the reasonable posts in this thread, there aren't that many failures at all. <1%. Some people are basing their frivolous estimate on visual wear on disassembled bearings = case of failure. Which is wrong.

Explain to me again how visibly worn bearings are not a potential failure averted?

[loveskiing]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

That's a normal reaction..Same thing here .
Mine is actually a garage queen , don't drive it in winter ...don't drive it in the rain .
Summer is comming in Belgium , and wait for sunny weather to drive her again through the Belgian Ardennes .
Because she said to me ....I really love the twisties in the forests .
Last time she said also to me...I really hate speed cams !

OK, taking notes here on how to ensure long life on the rod bearings:
Keep the car as a Garage Queen. Never drive her in the rain or inclement weather. Check, and check.
Take her out in the summer in the Ardennes to hit the twisties, while avoiding speed cams. Uhm, that might take some doing because she's in the Pacific NW part of the U.S., but as a novice student of WWII, I could always be persuaded to come over IF there was a tour guide...to show Battle of the Bulge sites like Malmedy, St. Vith, Bastogne, etc.
Just sayin' is all...

[Solo_M_Tech]

Here is my take.

$2500 for bearing swap to Callico Coated bearings is cheaper than $15,000 for a used or $25,000 New/remanufactured S65.
($15,000 includes the cost of a used engine from ebay, with labor for the swap and new bearings.)

Is this issue hyped up? Alittle. The actual engine failure rate is pretty low.
Should I swap my bearings? Probably. For me this was piece of mind. For the 6 owners
I've swapped bearings for, the same. There engines showed signs of premature
wear and needed the swap sooner than later.
Have I seen an engine failure due to bearings? YES. 4 of them in a year. One
supercharged and 3 NA. 2 cars 6MT and 2 DCT. All driven hard.
Do I have a theory? Yes. These cars are rarely driven hard enough. Most people
baby them around, and when combined with preignition due to improper tunes
(stock bmw tunes included), lugging ( IMO less than 3k rpms under load), and
already tight oil clearances these engines take a beating.

Now lets stop beating this damn dead horse. If you want to change your bearings as piece of mind. DO IT.
IF not, ride it out. They call it the German lottery for a reason.

[WaylonM3]

+1 on this. I just replaced mine at 80k and that was with 25+ trackdays and who knows how many the owner before me did.

I'd still replace them if I was you. The shop I use did it for $750 and the parts were somewhere in that ballpark as well.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

no. there are two track guys with 25+ track days on original bearings. one is superchargarged, and one is n/a, but the n/a car has about 125k miles. so i'd say no, they don't all have problems.

[Bus Driver]

Do I have a theory? Yes. These cars are rarely driven hard enough. Most people
baby them around, and when combined with preignition due to improper tunes
(stock bmw tunes included), lugging ( IMO less than 3k rpms under load), and
already tight oil clearances these engines take a beating.

Just did mine and the wear was quit prominent ,2010 with 45k miles. 2nd owner, had it for abou 3k miles. Dunno how it was driven before.

My thoughts were one of the main contributing factor is not properly warming up the engine to operating temps before being driven hard.

Didn't know that by rarely driving it hard enough could also lead to the RB wear. Could you kindly explain how this could happen?
Thing is, I occasionally drive my ///M and hardly drive them hard, just a few spririted drives.

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by Uber///M

Do I have a theory? Yes. These cars are rarely driven hard enough. Most people baby them around, and when combined with preignition due to improper tunes (stock bmw tunes included), lugging ( IMO less than 3k rpms under load

If under 3k rpm under load is lugging (not that I'm questioning you) how can avoid it in my situation where I live on the bottom of a hill? Every morning I let the car finish the cold start cycle and slowly drove off for maybe 500 feet before going uphill and I stay under 2500rpm as I crawl up the hill as slow as possible in 2nd, sometime in 3rd.

[Redd]

Over here, rod bearing changes cost $800 parts and labor.

At these prices, would you all change your rod bearings?

[FogCityM3]

An interesting thing to think about is rather than looking at failures and surmising what did or didn't happen, for those who have done multiple track days with no issues, what are your driving habits and vehicle maintenance regimen? Perhaps there is commonality in this regard (or even when rod bearings failed in spite of good habits/maintenance)?

For me, knock on wood, has been 80+k miles (60+ with BPM tune) with 25-30 track days and significant 6000+ rpm upper rev spirited driving in the twisties.

Habits: always wait for oil temp to rise near/above 200F (also have cold start rev protection w/tune) prior to revving above 3000-3500 rpm, never lug the engine (use a lower gear to pass/accelerate briskly when warmed up, when warming up be gentle on throttle), stick to better gasoline (Chevron) and use 100 octane racing gas for track days (in case there is any detonation/pre detonation and to keep heat down). Did factory recommended break-in procedure.

Maintenance: OEM 10w-60 oil changes every 7500 miles, spark plug changes every 15k miles (act as knock sensors using ionic charge so want them working perfectly), techron added every 3-4k miles (help keep injectors clear of ethanol deposits).

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Bus Driver

Just did mine and the wear was quit prominent ,2010 with 45k miles. 2nd owner, had it for abou 3k miles. Dunno how it was driven before.

My thoughts were one of the main contributing factor is not properly warming up the engine to operating temps before being driven hard.

Didn't know that by rarely driving it hard enough could also lead to the RB wear. Could you kindly explain how this could happen?
Thing is, I occasionally drive my ///M and hardly drive them hard, just a few spririted drives.

By driven hard I mean don't be afraid to let the engine spin out to redline. The mechanical components are stable at 8k rpms and you're not adding any additional stress that the engineers didn't already think of. So go ahead and enjoy the S65's soundtrack often.

Originally Posted by MaximusB

If under 3k rpm under load is lugging (not that I'm questioning you) how can avoid it in my situation where I live on the bottom of a hill? Every morning I let the car finish the cold start cycle and slowly drove off for maybe 500 feet before going uphill and I stay under 2500rpm as I crawl up the hill as slow as possible in 2nd, sometime in 3rd.

Leave it in second gear when making the climb. 2500 rpms is too low in the rpm band in my opinion. If my current cruise speed and gear is at 3k, I dont' upshift. Once I clear 4k with normal driving I upshift. When I'm driving aggressively, 6k is a norm. All once fully up to temp. When I can and the cops are vacant I try to hit 8k for fun. ;-)

[spiderspider]

Originally Posted by Redd

Over here, rod bearing changes cost $800 parts and labor.

At these prices, would you all change your rod bearings?

At those prices I would do it annually

[GSTE34]

A lot of guys on here still have the factory bearings over 100k and a couple guys well over 200k believe it or not, one of the members with well over 200k did a RB device and his factory bearings had normal wear, I believe it's all in the break in period of the vehicle. Most of the original owners buy the car and just start beating it leading to the rod bearing issue, but if bought second hand I'd say better safe than sorry buddy. Some say if you have well 80k and pass the black stone test your in the clear for a bit.

[Redd]

For me, it is just a matter of peace of mind. I find it ludicrous that so many people are willing to spend 2.5k on a set of rims, but not on rod bearings which will give them peace of mind to thrash the car.