NRW Valve Covers?

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

I got a tap & die metric set and I believe the machined holes are M6x1.0 but make sure to check first. All I did was just run the same thread cutter into the holes and cleaned up the furries metal. Then checked the hex bolts. They don’t require much torque and the little I applied snapped two actually.

It's very interesting that you mention this.

While I was installing my NRW valve covers over the course of a week or two recently I noticed when hand-threading the aluminum coil cover posts they bottomed out a bit too early (not even dry, I had the hardware liquid-waxed). I took out the calipers and measured the hole depth to be adequate (~3mm over), so I assumed the threading wasn't deep enough into the blind hole. I pulled an audible at that moment and made sure to install a washer as a ~1mm spacer under that post (the one closer to the font of the car) to match the same thing the rear has (what with its grounding ring-terminal and all). I did not chase the holes with a tap, but I probably should have... I'm not sure what would have happened had I tried to torque to spec without the washer, but you're making me even happier I avoided that.


Edit: Oh yah, I also torqued the cam sensor bolts and oil separator bolts to spec (4 Nm + 45°), but it felt very dangerous. I consciously torqued the coil cover posts to a lesser spec (BMW wants 10 Nm and I did 8 Nm).

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

I actually had NRW send me a new valve cover after some debate when I proved to them that their machine holes were too tight.

I'd love to hear more about this, details please?

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

I'd love to hear more about this, details please?

Well, that is the problem I ran into also. The machined holes were VERY tight although thread count was correct. I made the initial mistake, I think I mentioned that in original thread, of using the old bolts, which are not obviously torque bearing type aluminum bolts and as they were already used (heat stress weakened) one snapped while hand tightening.
So one I experienced that, I retapped the other cover and cleaned up the shavings, also had to get NRW to send me a new cover for the hole that had the snapped off thread, trying to get that one out ended up damaging the threaded hole. So my advice, get all new hardware, check all bolts by hand, tap them out and check again by hand. The bolts should run in by fingers easily till they are about to bottom out and then you should be able to lightly torque. I think they are 6 nm, not 10 as 10 nm snapped my second bolt on the cam sensor but luckily because I had tapped out the new cover, that broken bolt reversed out easy without having to try and machine out the broken stud. What a f’n pain in the ass it was.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

While I was installing my NRW valve covers over the course of a week or two recently I noticed when hand-threading the aluminum coil cover posts they bottomed out a bit too early (not even dry, I had the hardware liquid-waxed). I took out the calipers and measured the hole depth to be adequate (~3mm over), so I assumed the threading wasn't deep enough into the blind hole. I pulled an audible at that moment and made sure to install a washer as a ~1mm spacer under that post (the one closer to the font of the car) to match the same thing the rear has (what with its grounding ring-terminal and all). I did not chase the holes with a tap, but I probably should have... I'm not sure what would have happened had I tried to torque to spec without the washer, but you're making me even happier I avoided that. Edit: Oh yah, I also torqued the cam sensor bolts and oil separator bolts to spec (4 Nm + 45°), but it felt very dangerous. I consciously torqued the coil cover posts to a lesser spec (BMW wants 10 Nm and I did 8 Nm). I'd love to hear more about this, details please?

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Well, that is the problem I ran into also. The machined holes were VERY tight although thread count was correct. I made the initial mistake, I think I mentioned that in original thread, of using the old bolts, which are not obviously torque bearing type aluminum bolts and as they were already used (heat stress weakened) one snapped while hand tightening.
So one I experienced that, I retapped the other cover and cleaned up the shavings, also had to get NRW to send me a new cover for the hole that had the snapped off thread, trying to get that one out ended up damaging the threaded hole. So my advice, get all new hardware, check all bolts by hand, tap them out and check again by hand. The bolts should run in by fingers easily till they are about to bottom out and then you should be able to lightly torque. I think they are 6 nm, not 10 as 10 nm snapped my second bolt on the cam sensor but luckily because I had tapped out the new cover, that broken bolt reversed out easy without having to try and machine out the broken stud. What a f’n pain in the ass it was.

Thanks for these testimonies. This now makes me want to stay away from NRW covers... Imagine providing NRW covers to a shop to install and the damage that could be done by a mechanic thinking the job would be a simple install... Uh, no.. Thread taps, chasing threads, and mounting holes that are too short are the domain of a personal DIY installer i.e. someone not being pressed for time. MLT and EuroPower also make a CNC machined billet aluminum solution.
.
https://mltengineering-design.com/pr...m-valve-covers
.
https://europowermotorsports.com/pro...65-valve-cover
https://europowermotorsports.com/blo...valve-covers-1

[smokinjoe64]

Geez...really hate to hear these issues with NRW VCs.

I was an early adapter on release, and frequently communicated with one of the owners [Neil] prior to purchase.
NRW VCs + grommets + 100% new 'everything' with install at performance shop resulting in zero fitment problems along with to-date +10K mls use.

Issue types described likely stem from machining and/or supplier changes along with sub optimal quality measures/sampling.

Curious, anyone reach out and provide NRW with these findings?
If so, their response(s)?

NRW parts installed: VC's in 'OE gray' + in-line fuel filter

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks for these testimonies. This now makes me want to stay away from NRW covers... Imagine providing NRW covers to a shop to install and the damage that could be done by a mechanic thinking the job would be a simple install... Uh, no.

Ehhh, I would still do NRW again, any day of the week. And it is the only cover I'd ever recommend to friends.

If I am not DIYing and the shop messes it up they can take it up with NRW and sort it out between them as to who is going to foot the bill for any mistakes.

Originally Posted by DrFerry

MLT and EuroPower also make a CNC machined billet aluminum solution.

EuroPower is a poor option IMO mainly because of the reduced crank-case ventilation performance.
MLT is the only billet option I would go with, if for some reason you have a pile of spare cash and don't like cast aluminum for some reason. Much more on my thoughts regarding all common valve cover solutions can be found here:
BMW S65 valve cover options (mostly inclusive).

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

I was an early adapter on release

<snip>

Issue types described likely stem from machining and/or supplier changes along with sub optimal quality measures/sampling.

My experience described in the post above is with the absolute first round of their valve covers. And as far as I know they have not changed their supply chain, but certainly could have changed other things since then. However that would not have come into play for my set. It just took me years to finally get around to installing them. =/

I want to stress that there were no issues with my NRW covers that the stock units don't also suffer from (minor imperfections in the coating, coating where it doesn't belong, potentially tight holes) and I would recommend NRW covers from the mountain tops if I could climb them all. Yes, they could be better and I will get into that below, but they are certainly the best option IMO when you factor in price. (MLT might have them beat a little if your budget is unlimited.)

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

Curious, anyone reach out and provide NRW with these findings?
If so, their response(s)?

I have spoken to Neil Gordon at NRW-Deisgn since installing my covers about two things, but didn't mention this hole threading/depth thing because it seemed so incredibly minor as not worth even bringing it up.

The things I did bring up are discussed in the thread I linked above, but to summarize:
1q) Please incorporate the spark plug tubes in the casting.
1a) The casting cost a lot of money. No plans to do this.

2q) Please mask-off or otherwise prevent coating the rear-most coil cover pin stand-off to make coil harness grounding better.
2a) No plans. Customer should do this.



Finally, I am likely the most detail-aware person you're ever going to run into. And yah, I found a few things about the NRW covers that weren't perfect and areas for improvement (which is the main reason I made the linked thread I keep hoping people will read), but I still think they are far and away the best choice and have absolutely no hesitation to enthusiastically recommend them over and over again. Do not go elsewhere unless you're prepared to regret it (except maybe MLT depending on budget).

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

Ehhh, I would still do NRW again, any day of the week. And it is the only cover I'd ever recommend to friends.

If I am not DIYing and the shop messes it up they can take it up with NRW and sort it out between them as to who is going to foot the bill for any mistakes.


EuroPower is a poor option IMO mainly because of the reduced crank-case ventilation performance.
MLT is the only billet option I would go with, if for some reason you have a pile of spare cash and don't like cast aluminum for some reason. Much more on my thoughts regarding all common valve cover solutions can be found here:
BMW S65 valve cover options (mostly inclusive).



My experience described in the post above is with the absolute first round of their valve covers. And as far as I know they have not changed their supply chain, but certainly could have changed other things since then. However that would not have come into play for my set. It just took me years to finally get around to installing them. =/

I want to stress that there were no issues with my NRW covers that the stock units don't also suffer from (minor imperfections in the coating, coating where it doesn't belong, potentially tight holes) and I would recommend NRW covers from the mountain tops if I could climb them all. Yes, they could be better and I will get into that below, but they are certainly the best option IMO when you factor in price. (MLT might have them beat a little if your budget is unlimited.)


I have spoken to Neil Gordon at NRW-Deisgn since installing my covers about two things, but didn't mention this hole threading/depth thing because it seemed so incredibly minor as not worth even bringing it up.

The things I did bring up are discussed in the thread I linked above, but to summarize:
1q) Please incorporate the spark plug tubes in the casting.
1a) The casting cost a lot of money. No plans to do this.

2q) Please mask-off or otherwise prevent coating the rear-most coil cover pin stand-off to make coil harness grounding better.
2a) No plans. Customer should do this.



Finally, I am likely the most detail-aware person you're ever going to run into. And yah, I found a few things about the NRW covers that weren't perfect and areas for improvement (which is the main reason I made the linked thread I keep hoping people will read), but I still think they are far and away the best choice and have absolutely no hesitation to enthusiastically recommend them over and over again. Do not go elsewhere unless you're prepared to regret it (except maybe MLT depending on budget).

Appreciate summary, commentaries shared...makes sense and agree with most NRW sentiments noted

[KawBoy]

Just use original BMW stuff. It is a lot simpler.

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by KawBoy

Just use original BMW stuff. It is a lot simpler.

Horrible advice.

OEM costs more than NRW.
OEM has a much worse warranty than NRW.
OEM suffers from all the same miniscule nit-picking problems we've been discussing recently about NRW*.
OEM coating fails early and often, dropping coating into your engine oil, and causing endless leaks.

OEM is certainly one of the worst options.


*I have an OEM set with a snapped coil cover pin sitting on my garage floor right now. (Happened before I owned the car.)

[spammysammich]

Nothing has been more irritating to me than when I’m doing my oil changes and find bits of the valve cover paint in my filter. It just didn’t need to be this way. For all their engineering hits, the misses are real head scratchers. So hell no, F that porous BS oem valve cover.

Seeing the area around the oil filler cap just makes me mad. I hit a deer in the Subaru in eastern Washington and just don’t have time or money to deal with the valve covers this winter 😩But when I do it will be the NRW set.

[Abdul]

I understand the point about the “vacuum accumulation chamber,” but that isn’t how CCV performance is determined on the S65.

That hump isn’t functioning as a vacuum reservoir. The S65 doesn’t stabilize crankcase vacuum inside the valve cover. What actually matters for CCV performance are the basics:
• a continuous internal path
• proper cross-sectional area
• manageable pressure drop
• and baffling that keeps oil out of the direct flow

All of those are preserved in our design. There’s no narrowed section, no restriction, and nothing that would introduce the extra pressure drop needed to affect ventilation.

We’ve got these covers on a large number of cars — track builds and daily drivers — and none of them show any changes in crankcase vacuum, trims, oil consumption, or any sign of pressure buildup. If removing that external volume actually reduced CCV performance, those would be the first places it would show up. Technical claims, such as reduced CCV performance, should be supported by real data, as the actual indicators do not show it. The absence of the hump by itself does not translate into reduced CCV performance. And from a practical standpoint, the cover simply looks cleaner and more modern without that hump.

In terms of Cast vs Steel, at the end of the day, I’ve always preferred billet on my own cars — both for durability and aesthetics — and that’s why I wanted to offer a billet option for others as well. We genuinely believe our covers are the best-looking and most functional solution on the market, and I’m not here to undermine anyone else’s work. Everyone has their preferences, and for a lot of us, it’s billet all day for the reasons already mentioned above. Even the manufacturer of the cast valve cover publicly stated that he would’ve made his original version out of billet if it wasn’t so cost-prohibitive. It's clear he even thinks Billet was a better choice since the S58 Valve Covers are being made from Billet and not cast.

That’s all from my side. Just putting the correct information out there. Not looking to turn this into a long back-and-forth.

[Ptravaglini]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

Ehhh, I would still do NRW again, any day of the week. And it is the only cover I'd ever recommend to friends.

If I am not DIYing and the shop messes it up they can take it up with NRW and sort it out between them as to who is going to foot the bill for any mistakes.


EuroPower is a poor option IMO mainly because of the reduced crank-case ventilation performance.
MLT is the only billet option I would go with, if for some reason you have a pile of spare cash and don't like cast aluminum for some reason. Much more on my thoughts regarding all common valve cover solutions can be found here:
BMW S65 valve cover options (mostly inclusive).



My experience described in the post above is with the absolute first round of their valve covers. And as far as I know they have not changed their supply chain, but certainly could have changed other things since then. However that would not have come into play for my set. It just took me years to finally get around to installing them. =/

I want to stress that there were no issues with my NRW covers that the stock units don't also suffer from (minor imperfections in the coating, coating where it doesn't belong, potentially tight holes) and I would recommend NRW covers from the mountain tops if I could climb them all. Yes, they could be better and I will get into that below, but they are certainly the best option IMO when you factor in price. (MLT might have them beat a little if your budget is unlimited.)


I have spoken to Neil Gordon at NRW-Deisgn since installing my covers about two things, but didn't mention this hole threading/depth thing because it seemed so incredibly minor as not worth even bringing it up.

The things I did bring up are discussed in the thread I linked above, but to summarize:
1q) Please incorporate the spark plug tubes in the casting.
1a) The casting cost a lot of money. No plans to do this.

2q) Please mask-off or otherwise prevent coating the rear-most coil cover pin stand-off to make coil harness grounding better.
2a) No plans. Customer should do this.



Finally, I am likely the most detail-aware person you're ever going to run into. And yah, I found a few things about the NRW covers that weren't perfect and areas for improvement (which is the main reason I made the linked thread I keep hoping people will read), but I still think they are far and away the best choice and have absolutely no hesitation to enthusiastically recommend them over and over again. Do not go elsewhere unless you're prepared to regret it (except maybe MLT depending on budget).

I don’t know any shop that lets you bring parts that they didn’t supply and if issues happen due to said parts that it’s their problem. Now if the shop gets them and there is an issue, sure. But if it’s an Alibaba VC are they gonna get on with Beijing and handle it? Rest of info super helpful thank you 🙏

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by Ptravaglini

I don’t know any shop that lets you bring parts that they didn’t supply and if issues happen due to said parts that it’s their problem...

Certainly possible, but depends...
That said, factors like 'relationship', quality parts , and stand-up suppliers influence outcomes.

My experience - - some 'higher-end' performance shops, similar to one I use for ~+7 yrs, do in-fact stand behind install, and success of non-shop purchased parts [OE & AM]. That includes considerable refreshing, upgrades, PMs to all major components, systems [NRW VCs too ].

Fortunately to-date, only one significant issue required extra effort, collaboration to identify and remedy...related to a crap tune from Alpine MSS.

[Scrippy]

Just put mine on. Way easier than I thought. I figure when I do it again it will only take 3-4 hours. Don’t forget to put a dab of drie bond 1209 on the seems of the vanos covers. You can see a dab on the right side of my passenger cover. Get both sides of each cover. I experienced zero problems with NRW and I would recommend them. I purchased their gasket set, bolt bushing set and spark plug tubes. Everything fit perfectly. I reused my bolts & oil seperators. When I inspected my oil seperators they are pretty simple and there was no buildup in there. Done at 284,235 miles.

[a5m]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Just put mine on. Way easier than I thought. I figure when I do it again it will only take 3-4 hours. Don’t forget to put a dab of drie bond 1209 on the seems of the vanos covers. You can see a dab on the right side of my passenger cover. Get both sides of each cover. I experienced zero problems with NRW and I would recommend them. I purchased their gasket set, bolt bushing set and spark plug tubes. Everything fit perfectly. I reused my bolts & oil seperators. When I inspected my oil seperators they are pretty simple and there was no buildup in there. Done at 284,235 miles.

Good stuff! Thanks for the tips. How many times were they done before? Encouraging to hear this is easy, gotta tackle mine soon.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by a5m

Good stuff! Thanks for the tips. How many times were they done before? Encouraging to hear this is easy, gotta tackle mine soon.

First time My motor was like a cinnamon powdered donut.

[Edwardsc1]

I just replaced my valve covers two weeks ago with NRW painted covers. New VC gaskets, spark plug tubes, and VC bolt grommets. Fitment was perfect. Everything transferred over to the new valve covers with no issue and putting on the new covers was very easy. Time will tell of course, but they seem to be great quality.
Edit: installed at 177,000 miles

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

First time My motor was like a cinnamon powdered donut.

In what way? Do you mean pollen, grit and dirt stuck to the motor from the seeping oil over >250K miles? If so, they call that stuff "patina", or donut dust.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

In what way? Do you mean pollen, grit and dirt stuck to the motor from the seeping oil over >250K miles? If so, they call that stuff "patina", or donut dust.

Exactly in that way lol. I was also getting oil pooling in the V. Things are very clean now and I will be keeping an eye on it. My idle control valve is my next order of business, so I’ll see if that pooling is over with now.

[2manyMcars]

NRW all the way. Mporium vanos covers all the way. Do it once, call it the fix OEM+ whatever you want. and forget about it.

They should have been aluminum like the s85 from the factory. The NRW gaskets fit perfect, the install was wildly easy. The money anyone saves by going cheap is just going to get spent in $ when u have to go back in there, or in time when it didn’t last.

We buy BE or ARP bearings because it’s “the fix” right? Same deal here with NRW covers, and if yer in there, mights well do the Moporium vanos caps and skip worrying about snaps clicking, something being poorly seated or coming in seated etc.

[Johnny E92]

Originally Posted by 2manyMcars

NRW all the way. Mporium vanos covers all the way. Do it once, call it the fix OEM+ whatever you want. and forget about it.

They should have been aluminum like the s85 from the factory. The NRW gaskets fit perfect, the install was wildly easy. The money anyone saves by going cheap is just going to get spent in $ when u have to go back in there, or in time when it didn’t last.

We buy BE or ARP bearings because it’s “the fix” right? Same deal here with NRW covers, and if yer in there, mights well do the Moporium vanos caps and skip worrying about snaps clicking, something being poorly seated or coming in seated etc.

Exactly what I did including the NRW Ali spark plug tubes and also did the TA’s at the same time with the UKRebuild ones, never looked back.

[2manyMcars]

Originally Posted by Johnny E92

Exactly what I did including the NRW Ali spark plug tubes and also did the TA’s at the same time with the UKRebuild ones, never looked back.

Absolutely man. OEM+ keeps these things on the road. Refine the bits that 15 years of s65 owners, enthusiasts, haters and experts have come together to sort out for our overthinking/overengineering pals in Munich. Pay a little more for the right parts made by the true believers who love these machines, do it once the right way and these things will run as long as you love on them!