ESS G1 and a valvetronic exhaust - questions and concerns

[imc43]

Hello all, I'm in the process of installing exhaust/supercharging my e92 m3, and someone I am talking to at ESS told me:

"Please note that we see very poor results with Valvetronic exhaust systems across the board. The OEM one typically makes substantially more power, especially when supercharged. The Dinan exhaust is very good, as is SuperSprint and Eisenmann."

This is the exhaust that just arrived for me, I have yet to install it but was planning on doing it tomorrow (until I got that message from ESS, which scared me a little): https://valvetronic.com/products/e9x...-valved-system

If the valves being closed is an issue, I have no problem not even hooking up the valve controller and letting the pipes be fully open 100% of the time. Can anyone chime in here? I plan on first running the car with just this exhaust, as my G1 has yet to arrive. Then I plan on using it with the G1. I have both an NA and Supercharger tune that I was just emailed by ESS. Will I see issues with these tunes and my exhaust if I leave the valves open? Shouldn't it then make just as much power as any other catless straight pipe exhaust??

edit: ESS rep has told me that they see "80-100whp less when boosted with a full valvetronic system vs stock".

What the heck? how can this be possible with the valves open and it being a straight pipe no cats exhaust?? Are there leaks in the valvetronic V2 system? Are the pipes not wide enough/too restrictive, even when compared to the OEM exhaust with its cats??

[imc43]

Also I don't want to screw up adaptations by opening and closing the exhaust during the "adaptation period" for the new exhaust. (I assume the new adaptation period is initiated by the ESS tunes I will be installing)

How long is the "new exhaust adaptation period" anyways?

Thanks in advance

[amrazM]

i can see losing those power figures with the valves closed which could be what he is describing.

[1SloeEm3]

This issue is when the valves are closed. I have an Armytrix valved exhaust and with valves open it put out 580 WHP. Spencer actually dyno’d his car with valves closed and made under 500 a couple years ago if I remember correctly

[Soden82]

My friend has an ESS VT650 kit with the valvetronic and I don’t think there’s a way to keep them full open as it’s vacuum actuated and eventually it’ll bleed vacuum.

I have the G1 kit and a turner valved catback and my exhaust controller shit the bed recently so I’ve been driving it around with valves closed for a month. I just don’t go WOT (but will go 75% occasionally).

I need a valved unit so that I can be in stealth mode since I live in a small town and cops can be an issue. Just don’t go WOT with it closed and your fine!

[tom @ eas]

ESS is correct - we typically don’t see strong supercharged results when using FI, iPE, Armytrix, or Valvetronic exhaust systems on the dyno. While these systems are generally on the louder side, they don’t tend to perform particularly well, mainly due to their x-pipe or valved muffler designs, which often create choke points.

The x-pipe is actually the most restrictive portion of the OEM exhaust. We’ve consistently seen the best performance results using a Macht Schnell x-pipe paired with the factory mufflers.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

ESS is correct - we typically don’t see strong supercharged results when using FI, iPE, Armytrix, or Valvetronic exhaust systems on the dyno. While these systems are generally on the louder side, they don’t tend to perform particularly well, mainly due to their x-pipe or valved muffler designs, which often create choke points.

The x-pipe is actually the most restrictive portion of the OEM exhaust. We’ve consistently seen the best performance results using a Macht Schnell x-pipe paired with the factory mufflers.

What kind of variance are we talking about? 3-5hp difference or more?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Redd

What kind of variance are we talking about? 3-5hp difference or more?

Just as ESS stated earlier, typically drops of 50-80whp vs a high flow midpipe and OEM muffler setup (depending on trim level, boost, fuel, conditions). These types of systems are essentially kryptonite to supercharged applications.

Typically, we'll answer these types of pre-sales questions when ordering from us, as we've been supercharging these platforms since 2010 - we have a general idea on what makes power and performs well over time.

[Soden82]

With your experience Tom, if the X-pipe is substituted for a higher flowing one (but with the valvetronic type axleback), will that mitigate the power loss?

Im assuming it is hard to answer because there are so many variables.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Soden82

With your experience Tom, if the X-pipe is substituted for a higher flowing one (but with the valvetronic type axleback), will that mitigate the power loss?

Im assuming it is hard to answer because there are so many variables.

Too many variables, you're right. Then we get put in the uncomfortable position of telling someone that their exhaust choice was the reason.

Depending on the system, it can be the x-pipe, muffler or possibly both. Don't really dig in further than that, as most are not willing to wait another 2+ weeks after their new supercharger was just bolted on. We'll go the power-focused and proven x-pipe route mentioned earlier.

[imc43]

After more research and input, I'm going with the macht schnell catless X-pipe and corsa catback exhaust. Thanks all for your input.

[Discreet_335i]

Late here. I have this setup up on my car. I use the closed valve option on cold starts in the morning and at times when in traffic. I've left them on here and there while in boost. I do feel a difference in power delivery and performance when closed vs open. Normally have the valves open. I dont worry or think about any problems it may cause when closed.. it has not btw. I love the ability to quiet it down at times.

[imc43]

You ever dyno the car with the valvetronic v2 system? I looked down the x pipe and the weld quality is absolutely junk in there compared to sub2 speedhouse titanium xpipe. There are literally pipes jutting out into the x pipe area.

[imc43]

Originally Posted by Discreet_335i

Late here. I have this setup up on my car. I use the closed valve option on cold starts in the morning and at times when in traffic. I've left them on here and there while in boost. I do feel a difference in power delivery and performance when closed vs open. Normally have the valves open. I dont worry or think about any problems it may cause when closed.. it has not btw. I love the ability to quiet it down at times.

forgot to quote

[imc43]

also a bump.. ended up going with the Sub2 Speedhouse non resonated catless x pipe (forward x config) and corsa catback exhaust, not the macht schnell x pipe.

[imc43]

Originally Posted by 1SloeEm3

This issue is when the valves are closed. I have an Armytrix valved exhaust and with valves open it put out 580 WHP. Spencer actually dyno’d his car with valves closed and made under 500 a couple years ago if I remember correctly

580whp with the g1 or g1+ charger? that sounds more like g2 or vt650 numbers. ethanol?

[tdott]

Valvetronic changed their xpipe design a few times i believe. If the results were using their older designs, I think it was because the X pipe barely had any merge at all, I had pointed it out when Berke did his video and barely made any power over test pipes.

The newer versions seem to have a better merge, but not sure what was dyno'd and made ESS not recommend them entirely.

A larger xpipe with forward merge would probably be best for super charged applications. ARH Headers has a 3" x-pipe with forward merge, same with Becker/OBX headers. Bimmerworld xipipe has the forward merge with stock size, MRF no longer available but it was one of the first forward X designs that made more power on supercharged cars.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1413876

[1SloeEm3]

Originally Posted by imc43

580whp with the g1 or g1+ charger? that sounds more like g2 or vt650 numbers. ethanol?

That was on a 650 kit. It was a 94-95 Oct mix