Planning a substantial build

[Gottagofast]

Hello everyone. As an owner of two G82 x drive vehicles that are immensely fast, I wanted to go back to the old schooli-sh ways of naturally aspirated high revving manual beemers. I decided on the E92 since it's the last of a dying breed, with good potential to be a very engaging automobile.

My goal for this build is to enhance the driving experience and increase driver involvement as the majority of cars being built these days tend to isolate you from those things.

I want to focus on weight reduction, steering feel, throttle response, clutch and shifter refinement, mid range torque, and sound enhancement. Not necessarily louder, as tone is more important to me than sheer volume.

This will not be built for the track, but I'm sure it will excel at that. I'm not chasing any particular number, specially power, but I'm sure it'll be quite a lot higher than stock after all modifications are done. It will remain naturally aspirated, but I want it to rev as high as it can, as freely as it can.

It won't be slammed to the ground with massive camber either. It's a road car, I want to be able to drive it almost anywhere, without fear of scraping the underside or stopping traffic to go over a bump, but I want proper, adjustable suspension that offers a compliant ride while being firm and responsive.

It's also a road car so I won't be putting E85 or any ethanol blends in it. It must run on 93 or 91 octane fuel which is widely available anywhere in North America.

The list of modifications I have in mind is quite long and very expensive, but I want to get it done.

1. Engine

First things first, the S65. Love the engine, but know very little about it other than factory specs. I want to do a dry sump conversion, mainly to reduce the center of gravity, as well as increasing the displacement, RPM range, torque and power without going over the top and hurting long term reliability. I would love to have titanium con rods and forged internals and I have found some parts. I am quite knowledgeable regarding the operations and parameters of an ICE, be it NA or boosted. I have no experience with engine modifications in real life though.

For example, this company offers a stroker kit for the S65. How good is it? I have no idea hence I'm asking here:

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...47l-p2929.aspx

Let's say that this particular kit is perfect in every way and all that's left for me to decide is the compression ratio. The highest they offer is 13.5 to 1 which I assume would not to be safe given that I plan to use 93 octane fuel. I have so many questions regarding that kit that I would have to spend all night writing, but I'll leave it there as I am open to suggestions.

2. Exhaust

Akrapovic seems to be the best in the business so I prefer to use their products over others. Quite expensive but it's worth it to me. This comes with high flow cats which I want because I don't want my car to smell like crap:

https://www.akrapovic.com/en/car/pro...=63&yearId=233

I just need a set of headers that are strong and light to go with that exhaust system.

3. Intake

Planning to go with the entire Eventuri set for this build. They look and sound good while increasing power ever so slightly.

https://www.eventuri.net/products/bm...carbon-plenum/
https://www.eventuri.net/products/bmw-e92-e90-e93-m3/
https://www.eventuri.net/products/bmw-e9x-m3-ducts/
https://www.eventuri.net/products/bm...m3-airbox-lid/

4. Brakes

Reducing unsprung mass is the single most important goal while choosing brakes so unless someone has a superior product, I have to cash out for this very expensive set of CCBs:

https://ind-distribution.com/product...e-retrofit-kit

5. Other(s)

Pretty much everything else, including but not limited to, CF drive shaft, CF strut brace, suspension, wheels, tires, clutch, transmission linkage and shifter, steering related components like caster, control arm, power steering, etc. as well as comfortable bucket seats and other things that I'm sure we'll discuss later.

[Gottagofast]

Reserved

[Soden82]

Off the top of my head, you can keep an OEM plus profile with a similar power band by going SC either with a centrifugal system by ESS or a roots style blower with Harrop.

Headers are a bit hard to come by nowadays since bimmerworld doesn’t sell their header system anymore. If SC, the car may lose some power with stock headers, but from first person experience I don’t really enjoy the sound of the aftermarket headers as it loses a bit of the exotic top end sound that is so unique in the S65.

You can check out 5150 motorsports for new pistons rods etc. definitely check out some of the threads here on stroker kits to get first hand experience.

[GOFAST M3]

American Racing Headers are the only option I know of, I cannot confirm fitment with Akra but the full ARH system is available and sounds great.

[911r]

VAC has a poor reputation. Carbahn has a better reputation, plus a warranty you can count on. 4.6L with 292 cams is tried, and true. TTV lightweight flywheel would be a must if you’re looking for throttle response. CF driveshaft will help too.

BimmerWorld makes the best hearders that I have seen. The set on my car made +10WHP and +20TQ on the same dyno compared to a car with identical mods, just a MS x-pipe vs. BW headers and x-pipe combo. Pavlov (via. Lang Racing) also makes headers, have not seen results on these. If you’re going with a 4.6 from Carbahn, I have heard of them fab’ing headers to accompany any mid-pipe/muffler system you’d like.

You don’t need the CCBs. AP9668/AP9660 kit will be just as lightweight, far more serviceable, allow for a much greater selection of wheel choices (allows for 18”s) and less expensive.

[Gottagofast]

Originally Posted by 911r

VAC has a poor reputation. Carbahn has a better reputation, plus a warranty you can count on. 4.6L with 292 cams is tried, and true. TTV lightweight flywheel would be a must if you’re looking for throttle response. CF driveshaft will help too.

BimmerWorld makes the best hearders that I have seen. The set on my car made +10WHP and +20TQ on the same dyno compared to a car with identical mods, just a MS x-pipe vs. BW headers and x-pipe combo. Pavlov (via. Lang Racing) also makes headers, have not seen results on these. If you’re going with a 4.6 from Carbahn, I have heard of them fab’ing headers to accompany any mid-pipe/muffler system you’d like.

You don’t need the CCBs. AP9668/AP9660 kit will be just as lightweight, far more serviceable, allow for a much greater selection of wheel choices (allows for 18”s) and less expensive.

You're speaking my language.

I do tend to trust Steve Dinan and Carbahn in general. However, on their page, they only offer rebuilt engines starting from around 35k. I don't know if individual parts are purchasable separately or if I can find a trusted shop to do the work. I live in Canada. Do you happen to know if anyone makes titanium con rods and such? Are they worth it, or even reliable long term?

Regarding Carbahn's 4.6L offering, what is the compression ratio that would suit pump gas?

As for the headers, I do want to pair them with the akro set. It's a full titanium x-pipe setup.

You got any info on lightweight batteries, trusted CF driveshaft manufacturers, or any parts providers or shops that are not scumbags, etc?

[911r]

Originally Posted by Gottagofast

You're speaking my language.

I do tend to trust Steve Dinan and Carbahn in general. However, on their page, they only offer rebuilt engines starting from around 35k. I don't know if individual parts are purchasable separately or if I can find a trusted shop to do the work. I live in Canada. Do you happen to know if anyone makes titanium con rods and such? Are they worth it, or even reliable long term?

Regarding Carbahn's 4.6L offering, what is the compression ratio that would suit pump gas?

As for the headers, I do want to pair them with the akro set. It's a full titanium x-pipe setup.

You got any info on lightweight batteries, trusted CF driveshaft manufacturers, or any parts providers or shops that are not scumbags, etc?

Not too sure as to reliability—I have seen a couple Dinan S3R cars out there (came with 4.6Ls) with 120+k miles. Another user on here (SYT_Shadow) has a good amount of track time on his stroker, and has even used their warranty—so could speak on that subject a bit more than I could.

I wouldn’t say headers are necessary in the slightest. The factory headers were designed quite well. Really diminishing returns, and only something to consider if you really want to push the envelope.

People say good things about YFCM drive shafts. TTV for single mass/lightweight flywheel too. It will chatter some at idle, similar to a 997.2 GT3 RS. Anti Gravity is the tried and true brand for lightweight lithium batteries in my opinion…there are competitors out there, but Anti Gravity has been in the game for so long.

[SYT_Shadow]

The stroker lives on! Now it's in the 6mt E92. It is quite epic, but expensive.

[Gottagofast]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The stroker lives on! Now it's in the 6mt E92. It is quite epic, but expensive.

Nice to have you here .

Ummmm, PLEASE TELL ME ALL PARTS AND SUCH.

So uhhh... details please . Parts, compression ratio, fuel type, bank account, etc.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Gottagofast

1. Engine

First things first, the S65. Love the engine, but know very little about it other than factory specs. I want to do a dry sump conversion, mainly to reduce the center of gravity, as well as increasing the displacement, RPM range, torque and power without going over the top and hurting long term reliability. I would love to have titanium con rods and forged internals and I have found some parts. I am quite knowledgeable regarding the operations and parameters of an ICE, be it NA or boosted. I have no experience with engine modifications in real life though.

For example, this company offers a stroker kit for the S65. How good is it? I have no idea hence I'm asking here:

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...47l-p2929.aspx

Let's say that this particular kit is perfect in every way and all that's left for me to decide is the compression ratio. The highest they offer is 13.5 to 1 which I assume would not to be safe given that I plan to use 93 octane fuel. I have so many questions regarding that kit that I would have to spend all night writing, but I'll leave it there as I am open to suggestions.

Carbahn strokers have demonstrated reliability and the stand behind their product. I’d talk directly with Steve about your specific build specs. VAC has an iffy background. Some have good luck, quite a few have bad luck. VAC did a stroker build and documented it in the forum but when it came time to post dyno results the thread went silent. There are other race shops that will provide the parts need to build a stroker. Fall Line and, I believe, even BimmerWorld will spec out the parts for a stroker. Their e92 M3 race car was converted to a Pikes Peak car and they used a stroker motor in it.

BimmerWorld will only sell headers+custom x-pipe and catless x-pipes (note: you want a forward X because it makes the most power) on race car builds only. You have to send pics showing it’s a race car build. There’s an ebay set of headers made by Becker, I believe that netted around 12 whp and 10 lbf-ft of torque. tdott is the one that installed and dyno’Ed their header.

Epic Motorsports is the best s65 tuner. He consistently tunes s65 race cars that put out the highest hp and torque numbers. Note: s65s have a flat torque curve so no huge mid range gains to find.

2. Exhaust

Akrapovic seems to be the best in the business so I prefer to use their products over others. Quite expensive but it's worth it to me. This comes with high flow cats which I want because I don't want my car to smell like crap:

https://www.akrapovic.com/en/car/pro...=63&yearId=233

I just need a set of headers that are strong and light to go with that exhaust system.

I have an Akra evo exhaust on one of my e92 M3s and absolutely love it. Its x-pipe location causes a slight dip in torque at low rpm but feels great pulling all the way to redline. The Akra GT4 has no cats but the same X location. Also, most companies that make long tube headers come with a custom x-pipe because a stock like x-pipe cannot connect to their headers. BimmerWorld and ARH require their specific midpipes to work with their headers.

3. Intake

Planning to go with the entire Eventuri set for this build. They look and sound good while increasing power ever so slightly.

https://www.eventuri.net/products/bm...carbon-plenum/
https://www.eventuri.net/products/bmw-e92-e90-e93-m3/
https://www.eventuri.net/products/bmw-e9x-m3-ducts/
https://www.eventuri.net/products/bm...m3-airbox-lid/

There are other CF plenums available that make more noise and power. Eventuri is a 100% copy of the stock plenum. The minimal power gains come from their intake. Another intake to look at is the Infinity Designs intake.

4. Brakes

Reducing unsprung mass is the single most important goal while choosing brakes so unless someone has a superior product, I have to cash out for this very expensive set of CCBs:

https://ind-distribution.com/product...e-retrofit-kit

CCB are for bling and the rotor replacement price far exceeds the price of the highest end brake kits. The Essex’s AP Racing and BimmerWorld’s Alcon kits are the best on the market.

5. Other(s)

Pretty much everything else, including but not limited to, CF drive shaft, CF strut brace, suspension, wheels, tires, clutch, transmission linkage and shifter, steering related components like caster, control arm, power steering, etc. as well as comfortable bucket seats and other things that I'm sure we'll discuss later.

As for suspensions, MCS 2/3WR, Ohlins TTX, Moton and Nitron are going to give you the highest performance yet a street ride with compliance and lack of harshness even with high performance street or track spring rates.

[Gottagofast]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

As for suspensions, MCS 2/3WR, Ohlins TTX, Moton and Nitron are going to give you the highest performance yet a street ride with compliance and lack of harshness even with high performance street or track spring rates.

Much love

[Gottagofast]

For proper low to mid range torque, VVT, VVL, VVD can substantially help. Does the Vanos system not help or can it be configured or is it even possible to keep it or enhance it while doing a stroker build?

Remember, my goal isn't balls to the wall power.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Gottagofast

Much love

One thing I forgot mention is a diff with a different final drive. My DCT has a 3.62 FD vs stock 3.15 FD. I have two e92 M3s so I can experience them back to back or let a friend drive one. The 3.62 pulls car lengths on the 3.15. I know the MT comes with a 3.85 FD but I’d at least run a 4.10 FD (4.44 FD is the next available, I believe) which is 6% shorter gearing which will still make a difference. I have a 4.10 FD on my e46 M3 (stock 3.62 FD) and, again, it makes a huge difference and pulls even harder. The 3.62 FD on one of my e92 M3s is by far the best mod I’ve done.

[Gottagofast]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

One thing I forgot mention is a diff with a different final drive. My DCT has a 3.62 FD vs stock 3.15 FD. I have two e92 M3s so I can experience them back to back or let a friend drive one. The 3.62 pulls car lengths on the 3.15. I know the MT comes with a 3.85 FD but I’d at least run a 4.10 FD (4.44 FD is the next available, I believe) which is 6% shorter gearing which will still make a difference. I have a 4.10 FD on my e46 M3 (stock 3.62 FD) and, again, it makes a huge difference and pulls even harder. The 3.62 FD on one of my e92 M3s is by far the best mod I’ve done.

Yeah. I was actually looking at the 4.1 a few hours ago, I love a short ratio box. Something like this:

https://euro(onnex.co/collections/m3...-gears-pinions

Replace ( with C in the link.
Is euro c-o-nn-e-x a banned site or something?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Gottagofast

Yeah. I was actually looking at the 4.1 a few hours ago, I love a short ratio box. Something like this:

https://euro(onnex.co/collections/m3-v8-drivetrain-program/products/bmw-motorsport-final-drive-gears-pinions

Replace ( with C in the link.
Is euro c-o-nn-e-x a banned site or something?

Site is banned because the guy who started that group buy website screwed over a lot of forum members from group buys he started on this forum. I stayed far away from all of his group buys.

[Gottagofast]

Ahhh okay, will stay clear then.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Gottagofast

Nice to have you here .

Ummmm, PLEASE TELL ME ALL PARTS AND SUCH.

So uhhh... details please . Parts, compression ratio, fuel type, bank account, etc.

Summarized:

It's a 4.6 Carbahn stroker
Normal compression ratio
292 schrick cams and supporting mods
Headwork
Bimmerworld longtube headers and matching x pipe
Karbonius intake

It's survived two track seasons and is now swapped into our E92 6MT. It's the perfect place for it, a garage queen montecarlo blue individual car we bought new.

The other things we have on the E92 are the CCB conversion from the F8X and the M4 GTS optional CF wheels. Not a lot of unsprung weight!

[mikerunt]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Summarized:

It's a 4.6 Carbahn stroker
Normal compression ratio
292 schrick cams and supporting mods
Headwork
Bimmerworld longtube headers and matching x pipe
Karbonius intake

It's survived two track seasons and is now swapped into our E92 6MT. It's the perfect place for it, a garage queen montecarlo blue individual car we bought new.

The other things we have on the E92 are the CCB conversion from the F8X and the M4 GTS optional CF wheels. Not a lot of unsprung weight!

Photos and videos please

[m3s65b4.x]

SYT_Shadow

Do you have FR 19" and RR 20" or all 19 wheels?
How the lightweight wheels perfom in real life, is it noticeable when driving on street or track?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...bon-wheel-set/

[endur0]

I have American Racing Headers on mine. Installation of longtubes in this car while the engine is in place is a gigantic PITA, mostly due to difficulty in removing the OEM heat shields. If you remove the engine, should be much better.

Fitment on the ARHs is quite decent except one primary requiring I beat the right engine mount heat shield a bit, and I had to make small adjustments to nut flanges because their countersunk flanges were a couple mm out of spec and were designed to a very tight tolerances. Routing of the exhaust was very decent, but the cats hang down a bit. (Primaries and all other exhaust components are well tucked). I was a bit annoyed at their response when I called them about the slightly imperfect fit. Additionally, you do have to notch the aluminum plate under the engine to clear the primaries, but this is by design.

I've had two sets of ARHs, one for this, one for a C5Z. Overall fit and finish is very good; great welds, everything seals well, 304 stainless, race merge collectors with scavenger spikes, etc.

Combined with an MPE muffler and my car sounds like a Nascar.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1871056

I run a CAE shifter and IMO it's the best no compromises shifter for the car. It also took modification to get installed correctly (had to remove material from its bottom stiffener plate to clear reverse), but once installed and correctly adjusted, shifting is a very nice experience. It will telegraph a lot of transmission noises into the cabin and you will have to cut some interior bits, so it's not for everyone.

For brakes, I run AP radicals on my Porch and have had great results. Would compare AP and stoptech offerings with a CCB retrofit. Overall will probably nearly as much unsprung weight reduction as CCBs (calipers are typically much lighter than OEM offerings, rotors will typically be between OEM irons and CCBs), though there will be more rotating moment vs CCBs. Essex has provided excellent support in my experience.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by mikerunt

Photos and videos please

This video is good

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by m3s65b4.x

Do you have FR 19" and RR 20" or all 19 wheels?
How the lightweight wheels perfom in real life, is it noticeable when driving on street or track?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...bon-wheel-set/

They are all 19s.

The car feels really good with the ccbs and cf wheels, but it's only a weekend car now.
The track cars now are an m4 gts with the gtmore build and an m4 gt4