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      07-19-2019, 06:02 PM   #9879
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I disagree. Second weekend at the Glen with the M3 CS with camber plates and RE71s on stock wheels (255 front, 275 rear) we got a 2:02 theoretical.
What does 2:02 theoretical mean?
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      07-19-2019, 06:11 PM   #9880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I disagree. Second weekend at the Glen with the M3 CS with camber plates and RE71s on stock wheels (255 front, 275 rear) we got a 2:02 theoretical.
What does 2:02 theoretical mean?
2:05 actual
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      07-19-2019, 06:11 PM   #9881
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Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
What does 2:02 theoretical mean?
It means that when the SoloDL puts your times together by segment that is the result.

A HPDE is full of cars and getting a clean lap is like talking to Jesus
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      07-19-2019, 06:25 PM   #9882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
What does 2:02 theoretical mean?
It means that when the SoloDL puts your times together by segment that is the result.

A HPDE is full of cars and getting a clean lap is like talking to Jesus
What was actual best?
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      07-19-2019, 07:01 PM   #9883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
What was actual best?
2:06.9. This is PCA, where people are convinced their cars are fast so they run in the fastest group with slow cars... so frustrating

I have a cool comparison of two 2:06.x laps, one in the e90 and the other in the CS.

If you have RaceStudio I can send them over for your enjoyment
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      07-19-2019, 07:15 PM   #9884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
What was actual best?
2:06.9. This is PCA, where people are convinced their cars are fast so they run in the fastest group with slow cars... so frustrating

I have a cool comparison of two 2:06.x laps, one in the e90 and the other in the CS.

If you have RaceStudio I can send them over for your enjoyment
I do. I have a 2:00.9 that I can share back.

Denis dot clavette at Comcast dot net

Mine was with SCDA which was similar to what you describe with PCA in that it was hard to get clean laps. I finally got one which was the 2:00.9. I went back a couple of months later with stickers hoping to break 2:00 but spun two bearings instead. I am hoping to get one more chance this year get up there to break 2:00 but it's pretty doubtful.

Remember to disable first and last laps when doing TBL's but I think you know that one.
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      07-19-2019, 07:36 PM   #9885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
I do. I have a 2:00.9 that I can share back.

Denis dot clavette at Comcast dot net

Mine was with SCDA which was similar to what you describe with PCA in that it was hard to get clean laps. I finally got one which was the 2:00.9. I went back a couple of months later with stickers hoping to break 2:00 but spun two bearings instead. I am hoping to get one more chance this year get up there to break 2:00 but it's pretty doubtful.

Remember to disable first and last laps when doing TBL's but I think you know that one.
I recall your time, you're nice and fast.
Too bad you're so far away, it's entertaining to make little trains of M3s and swat 991 GT3s out of the way. We have a decent train here with DB, CorruptCommie and Brandt. Plus myself and my brother.
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      07-19-2019, 08:28 PM   #9886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I disagree. Second weekend at the Glen with the M3 CS with camber plates and RE71s on stock wheels (255 front, 275 rear) we got a 2:02 theoretical.

In straights it keeps up with 991.2 gt3s. Basically, it's fast as hell. Data acquisition doesn't lie.

I'm a huge, huge lover of the E9X chassis and engine but there's no denying there is a massive leap between them in terms of speed. Not as big as the E46 to E9X but still big.

Picking off gt3s is too easy now. I almost feel bad we're moving to mcs suspension and r1 tires... almost.


We have SoloDLs on the E90 and the CS. The CS does with RE71s, track pads and camber plates the same thing the E90 does with MCS 3 way suspension and R1 tires. When you put both fast laps in the same graph the difference in speed is significant. I don't want to post it because I love the E9X too much

Hopefully the stroker in the E90 can close the straight line gap and we can get a sub 2 min theoretical with interior and no aero.
i formed my opinion from one of those car and driver "best driver's car" shootouts where they took about 15 cars from that year to laguna seca and posted times alongside a quick bio of the car and commentary on the car's attributes.
the m4 gts just seemed a bit bland and in the middle of the pack with the camaro and mustang.
i've sat in a m4 gts and really liked it, i just wish that the gts performance was attainable at the m4 competition package price point. aside from cool factor, the car doesn't convey a good value for cost to me. the performance is there, i just think it should be a little more performance for that coin.
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      07-19-2019, 09:09 PM   #9887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i formed my opinion from one of those car and driver "best driver's car" shootouts where they took about 15 cars from that year to laguna seca and posted times alongside a quick bio of the car and commentary on the car's attributes.
the m4 gts just seemed a bit bland and in the middle of the pack with the camaro and mustang.
i've sat in a m4 gts and really liked it, i just wish that the gts performance was attainable at the m4 competition package price point. aside from cool factor, the car doesn't convey a good value for cost to me. the performance is there, i just think it should be a little more performance for that coin.
It's likely the biggest problem with the GTS is that it has a 3 way suspension.
They should have known the car would be tested by cretins that are too used to pressing a button twice to put it in 'Sport+' mode and call it a day.

If you use the car set up decently it is outstanding. Super linear power curve with a lot of power. Such a pleasure to track. It's a pussycat with good amounts of power. Reeling in 991.2 GT3s in straights is impressive
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      07-19-2019, 11:56 PM   #9888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I have no idea why you're quoting 0-60 times. This is the track subforum, not the drag racing one.

That American car manufacturers are now selling cars with 305 PSC2 tires up front, which is nice to generate big numbers and good Lightning Lap times. In the real world though the only thing that's happened is they've put the set of wheels BMW owners would use in track days onto their cars stock.
So in a track setting, the GTS is not going to run the tires it used in a Lightning Lap. Meanwhile on the street it will have regular, nicely dimensioned tires instead of 305 width stupidities which make you tramline on every single road


In terms of the GT350 with 'carbon fiber wheels', I could not care less. So if a GTS is really slow but it has a carbon hood and carbon wheels how is that relevant? The GTS has a carbon hood, composite trunk. Who cares? I care about the result, not the excel spreadsheet with the data.

American car manufacturers have to stop 'checking the box' with dry sump oil systems that allow oil starvation at the track, with flat plane engines that are heaps of cow manure and consume oil like two stroke engines and blow up on their own and with cars that have diff and tranny oil coolers but still overheat using stock tires and instead properly engineer their cars.

Although the GT350R is an ally in the battle against Porsches I would not expect one to be faster than a M3 CS, forget about a GTS.


Lastly, I will pray to the Car God tonight that BMW does not read your post, because I would be pretty disappointed if they make the next M3 with a complete piece of shit engine like the GT350 has, that consumes quart after quart of oil the way a desert sucks up water and blows up left right and center.
The only two figures we have on the new Corvette is the 0-60 time of 3 seconds and 495 HP. Both of those figures are better than the M4 GTS - a car that costs over $130k. The 2020 base model M4 has less power and a 0-60 time of 4.1 seconds. I don't know of any non-electric cars at this performance level where the acceleration significantly drops off after 60 MPH, so I'm safely assuming the Corvette is quicker to 120 MPH as well. That's why it's relevant to this forum. I'm assuming that the new Corvette will be quicker than the GT350R.

The lightweight carbon fiber wheels on the base GT350R package shows the value over an M4. If the wheels were available on the M4 GTS, I'm sure BMW would try to charge 10k more and everyone would think they were amazing. By looking only at price points, the GT350R should be competing with the base M4, but it's not competing - it's destroying it. It's even quicker than an M4 GTS on many tracks, except the Nurburgring. A few lap times here. The fact that the GT350R has worse 0-60 and 0-100 times than the M4 GTS further demonstrates its better handling.

As far as the cooling related and oil consumption issues, I think that was mostly a GT350 (even cheaper than an M4) rather than a GT350R problem. BMWs are no stranger to either of the issues. But at least I haven't heard the Mustang engine consuming rod bearings so that's a plus for it.

In terms of performance and value for money, you'll go much further with the Corvette and Mustang. The money saved over an M4 base model will certainly cover all the oil the engine will consume.

I don't understand your dislike of Porsches, but I can appreciate when something I don't necessarily like does well. I've had no interest in Mustangs or Corvettes but they are delivering compelling offerings. So compelling that they make the M3/M4 look like a mid-field also ran from which we should collectively move on. There was an episode of the Grand Tour where they made the statement that the biggest problem with the new high performance, handling oriented American cars is their price - it's so low compared to the European that it makes us think that they must be worse for some reason.
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      07-20-2019, 12:15 AM   #9889
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Just got my Solo DL 2 from M-World and waiting for the install instructions. For Race Studio 3 - does anyone want to share their configurations? To start out with, I'd like a page that just shows GPS speed, speedometer speed, and RPM for HPDEs where timing devices are discouraged. For the ECU stream where you select the protocol, what are you choosing for the E9x M3? There's "F_Series" "M235i" "M3_GT2" etc
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      07-20-2019, 12:23 AM   #9890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
M4 never made the performance leap it needed to stay relevant.
This. Even the M4 GTS is only a second faster than the regular C7 Stingray and even the C6 Z06 on the C&D Lightning Lap at VIR. The C7 Grand Sport is nearly 6 seconds faster. Imagine spending $125,000 on the GTS and then some boomer in a Stingray that's half the price is right on your ass the whole lap.


If you look at the E92 M3 time, it was pretty close to stuff like the Mustang GT, IS F, 911 C2S, C63, etc. Then the F-series hit and everyone just left them in the dust.
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      07-20-2019, 12:50 AM   #9891
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Yep, the e9x was the last benchmark car of its class. Tons of reviews back in the day and the e9x was the reigning king.
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      07-20-2019, 01:11 AM   #9892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Yep, the e9x was the last benchmark car of its class. Tons of reviews back in the day and the e9x was the reigning king.
I'm just gonna pretend I live back in that day for at least a couple more years.
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      07-20-2019, 02:02 AM   #9893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximian View Post
Just got my Solo DL 2 from M-World and waiting for the install instructions. For Race Studio 3 - does anyone want to share their configurations? To start out with, I'd like a page that just shows GPS speed, speedometer speed, and RPM for HPDEs where timing devices are discouraged. For the ECU stream where you select the protocol, what are you choosing for the E9x M3? There's "F_Series" "M235i" "M3_GT2" etc
You want protocol BMW_PT6.

Setting up a page like you describe takes just a few minutes. I suggest you dig in and learn how to do it. That way you can easily change the page configs as you continue using the device. No one else's pre-setup pages are going to be exactly what you want.

You'll also want to setup the side LEDs to do what you want.

AIM has a number of videos on YouTube that describe some setup stuff.
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      07-20-2019, 04:57 AM   #9894
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I'm the other side of this, the F series made a bigger leap than the E9x did vs the E46. Little tangible improvements where the "front knuckle is basically the same" but everyone has the same feedback - it's more neutral and gets away with far less camber than E series BMWs. It also manages to put down bulk torque with that active "cheater" diff unlike our diffs (and the E46, E60).
I suppose they just need to trickle down to people who have more ability to get the most out of it.

There is a E92 GTS in the hands of a former pro tin-top racer... he is 3 seconds faster in his M4 GTS on a 1:39 vs 1:42 lap at the same circuit. He doesn't drive it as often because tyre choice is "limited". Pretty sure that laptime was out the box on the Cup2 whereas the M3 GTS was either on A050/Z221.

On another circuit, the pro in the E92 M3 GTS is basically matched by a N55 M2 with camber plates, Ohlins R&T, Z221s. Let that sink in.

I can't talk about 'Vettes and the better than base GT 'Stang. They're not sold or popular here. The C8 will potentially change that.

We can all play laptimes but I bet that's not why we're here. Go have fun.
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      07-20-2019, 09:50 AM   #9895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Yep, the e9x was the last benchmark car of its class. Tons of reviews back in the day and the e9x was the reigning king.
yeh but like shadow mentioned, now the domestics are playing the tire game. Mustang GT PP2, Focus RS, GT350 R all come with PSC2s from factory. PP2 comes with 305s all around I think.

meanwhile, M3s and M4s were released with 255/275 Super Sports and couldn't keep up with the others around a track. shock.
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      07-20-2019, 12:15 PM   #9896
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Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
yeh but like shadow mentioned, now the domestics are playing the tire game. Mustang GT PP2, Focus RS, GT350 R all come with PSC2s from factory. PP2 comes with 305s all around I think.

meanwhile, M3s and M4s were released with 255/275 Super Sports and couldn't keep up with the others around a track. shock.
It goes right over some people's heads.

Personally I'm grateful BMW doesn't put 305 psc2s in front in the M3/4. It's a stupid tire size and compound for real-life driving.

Instead, the small percentage of people who actively track can get another set of wheels for that.

I drive to the track with 10.5" square setups and hate every second of the street driving portion. It is completely stupid.

But maybe not so stupid, as it seems like people are obsessed with how fast a car is without doing the most basic things like track pads/camber plates/wheel and tire changes.

There are also things like alignments, where the GT350R comes with an insane one which eats tires in 5k miles and M3/4 come with normal ones.

While some people cry that BMW has lost their way, others are installing camber plates, track tires and wheels plus track pads on their M3/4s/CS/GTS and crushing everyone out there.

But let's stick to comparisons where the M3/4 has PSS tires or the GTS runs 265/285 psc2s. Yup, smart.

There was a dude here that blew through his stock ZL1 1LE shocks in 4k miles of street driving 'because the roads are really bad'. Is this some kind of joke? My MCS have 10k on them of track use and another 15 of street use and zero issues... some people may call the ZL1 1LE progress but I do not.
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      07-20-2019, 12:48 PM   #9897
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It seems like most GT350 and 1LE owners don’t track and/or can’t get the performance out of the cars with all of that tire anyways, which is fine unless you're bragging about how fast your car is I guess.
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      07-20-2019, 02:25 PM   #9898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
It seems like most GT350 and 1LE owners don’t track and/or can’t get the performance out of the cars with all of that tire anyways, which is fine unless you're bragging about how fast your car is I guess.
I shouldn't even engage in these conversations

Talking about track performance with keyboard racers and excel spreadsheet makers is an epic waste of time.

I am amazed people come talk to me about the feel of their whatever car... i look at them and my only thought is 'you wouldn't know performance or feel if it fell on you'.

People should spend 30 days a year at the track with whatever car they want and at least they can have a more respectable opinion.
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      07-20-2019, 04:30 PM   #9899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximian View Post
Just got my Solo DL 2 from M-World and waiting for the install instructions. For Race Studio 3 - does anyone want to share their configurations? To start out with, I'd like a page that just shows GPS speed, speedometer speed, and RPM for HPDEs where timing devices are discouraged. For the ECU stream where you select the protocol, what are you choosing for the E9x M3? There's "F_Series" "M235i" "M3_GT2" etc
I can help you with AiM.
Either call me, or I can setup a WebEx session to show you
YouTube is also good option
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      07-20-2019, 05:49 PM   #9900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
It seems like most GT350 and 1LE owners don’t track and/or can’t get the performance out of the cars with all of that tire anyways, which is fine unless you're bragging about how fast your car is I guess.
I'd half agree with this. I see a fair number of them at track days, though it's usually the same people -- and a lot of those 350s are trailered in.
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